Drone Pilots: We Don’t Get No Respect

[BFM this]

Who's laughing? This is my 47th week on day shift and I'm still not sleeping right.

[guineapigfury]

Misread your intent, my fault.

[Sim]

How's AFSOC RPA training compare to ACC's?

Other than different tint of patches - None.

I would say that getting a different and new command would be a nuke option. Start with simple solutions first. How about fixing manning doc that is off by ~45%. How about implementing a proper dwell schedule where squadron gets more than 2 days off a year (squadron Christmas party and rape training)?

[Clark Griswold]

Who is "they"?

Great discussion going on here. Let me add an alternative perspective.

Is the "they" not really ACC but the Fighter General / Mafia ? Not throwing 11F's under the bus but is that leadership caste the problem? Not passive-aggressive and not sure what background is the alternative as Schwartz was underwhelming.

[Azimuth]

Is the "they" not really ACC but the Fighter General / Mafia ? Not throwing 11F's under the bus but is that leadership caste the problem? Not passive-aggressive and not sure what background is the alternative as Schwartz was underwhelming.

Schwartz was given the task of fixing the RPA system that his predecessor didn't give a shit about and was one of the reasons he was fired per Gates' book. It was a giant mess when he took over the USAF. Edited July 30, 2015 by Azimuth

[nrodgsxr]

Schwartz was given the task of fixing the RPA system that his predecessor didn't give a shit about and was one of the reasons he was fired per Gates' book. It was a giant mess when he took over the USAF.

Gate's expectation was unreasonable. We could have double our CAP output at the time and he would have still said it wasn't enough. He said himself that he didn't know how many CAPs we really need. I really think he just hated the Air Force and our infatuation with the "air'.

[11F]

Not Gorenc?

Gorenc is being put forward for a COCOM. Most likely EUCOM/AFRICOM. Don't know bout you, but I think he's a great choice for that neck of the woods.

[Duck]

Isn't it funny how Gates was in the Air Force then left and hates the Air Force? Then gets in a leadership position and subsequently starts to take it out on big blue. Funny how that seems to happen.

[HuggyU2]

Gorenc is being put forward for a COCOM.

Just great. Another FAIP.

[panchbarnes]

FAIP is better than First Assignment Goodfellow in the 14N world...

[TnkrToad]

Gorenc is being put forward for a COCOM. Most likely EUCOM/AFRICOM. Don't know bout you, but I think he's a great choice for that neck of the woods.

If so, this would be a very big deal. The Air Force has a crappy track record for getting guys into geographic COCOM command billets. Prior to Breedlove (USAF), the only other AF officers to serve as SACEUR/EUCOM Commander were Norstad (from '56-63) and Ralston ('00-'03) . . . and Ralston got the job as a booby prize for not becoming CJCS (long-term adulterous affairs have a way of scuttling leaders' ambitions). As it is, Breedlove is only the second Air Force general in the post in over 50 years.

What would really be crazy is if PACOM ever had something other than a Navy admiral in command. Until John McCain finally retires from the Senate, though, I'd say the chances of that happening are somewhere between slim and none. If you're looking for some interesting reading, though, check out H.R. McMaster's Dereliction of Duty; Air Force general Jake Smart was scored as the best qualified to take command during the Johnson administration, but shady dealings prevented that from happening.

TT

[icohftb]

Isn't it funny how Gates was in the Air Force then left and hates the Air Force? Then gets in a leadership position and subsequently starts to take it out on big blue. Funny how that seems to happen.

Wonder how much his background as an Intel officer had to do with this.

[FishBowl]

I don't know if this is too off target for this thread, but they recently announced a dedicated OTS board for RPA dudes (16OTRPA). Projection for FY16 is approximately 265 RPA pilots from OTS.

Was there recently a change to the pipeline to allow this sort of number of trainees? Or are we going to be looking at a huge bottleneck at the schoolhouses?

[guineapigfury]

I don't know if this is too off target for this thread, but they recently announced a dedicated OTS board for RPA dudes (16OTRPA). Projection for FY16 is approximately 265 RPA pilots from OTS.

Was there recently a change to the pipeline to allow this sort of number of trainees? Or are we going to be looking at a huge bottleneck at the schoolhouses?

There is a significant increase in RPA FTU instructor manning happening right now. Will they be ready when the influx of students hits? Maybe. Will there be enough instructors in Ops squadrons to teach MQT to the new guys? Maybe. It's going to be a rough 2016 & 2017. On the plus side, this new wave of dudes should hit their first squadrons about 12-18 months before the first batches of 18Xers reach the end of their ADSCs. So there is a chance that increased manning may improve QOL enough to convince them to stay. But I doubt it.

[Trogdor]

The Air Force could start with ISR wings. I know one AFSOC base that it could be beneficial. From my perspective it seems that a leadership of higher rank fighting the ISR battle could make more headway in making some of the necessary changes. It is a different dynamic with half a base at constant war while everyone else getting ready to go out or relaxing just from getting back. Also, If/when the AF moves to a cyber/info/whatever command then those wings would be an easy move.

Also, second/third/etc. the warrant officer solution.

[xaarman]

Side tangent: After reading Gate's book, he details pretty well why the AF was such a pain in the ass. The obsession with "the next war" caused a direct conflict to the war we were already in. The AF constantly neglected his priorities while continuing their own internal direction. Coupled with some monumental screw ups, the AF did very little to regain his trust, which culminated in the firing of Wynne/Moseley and then some.

https://archive.defensenews.com/article/20140109/DEFREG02/301090020/Gates-Details-Headaches-Caused-by-US-Air-Force-During-His-Tenure

Edited July 31, 2015 by xaarman

[Guest ThatGuy]

What is the cost of a single MQ-1/MQ-9 simulator? I am writing an EPR for a previous sensor operator.

[BFM this]

There is a significant increase in RPA FTU instructor manning happening right now. Will they be ready when the influx of students hits? Maybe. Will there be enough instructors in Ops squadrons to teach MQT to the new guys? Maybe. It's going to be a rough 2016 & 2017. On the plus side, this new wave of dudes should hit their first squadrons about 12-18 months before the first batches of 18Xers reach the end of their ADSCs. So there is a chance that increased manning may improve QOL enough to convince them to stay. But I doubt it.

Even when HMN gets up to its projected capacity, those folks will average a healthy amount of casual. But HMN won't be the bottleneck--Pueblo/RND won't be able to get that number through in anywhere near a reasonable timeframe. That's a year of 18x at least.

...who's dumb idea was this? (Assuming it's more than just a rumor)

[GKinnear]

What is the cost of a single MQ-1/MQ-9 simulator? I am writing an EPR for a previous sensor operator.

One chest each of shiny beads and sea shells...

[TnkrToad]

Even when HMN gets up to its projected capacity, those folks will average a healthy amount of casual. But HMN won't be the bottleneck--Pueblo/RND won't be able to get that number through in anywhere near a reasonable timeframe. That's a year of 18x at least.

...who's dumb idea was this? (Assuming it's more than just a rumor)

Do you have a better idea for rapidly increasing RPA pilot production, while meeting COCOM requirements?

[BFM this]

Do you have a better idea for rapidly increasing RPA pilot production, while meeting COCOM requirements?

Disregard: reading comprehension fail on me. Edited August 1, 2015 by BFM this

[MajestikDroid]

question to the more informed members of this tread

Im a first assignment C17 pilot that just got told I'm getting non vol'd to remotes. I am trying to find information on what implications that will have for future assignments.

Obviously I'm planning on doing anything I can to get back to a cockpit, is that realistic? Of course my commander gave me the speech about how he wishes that he could go fly a drone and it's an amazing way to contribute to the fight.

I always used to be amazed at how AF pilots could have the best job in the world and seem so jaded and disillusioned... I'm definitely starting to understand.

[guineapigfury]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news: expect to be stuck in RPAs for the indefinite future. The RPA spring VML webinar said they would not even start thinking of sending dudes back until 2018ish. RPAs are a shitty life and things are going to get worse before they get better. If (and it's a huge if) the 2016 manning surge works, they may be willing to release guys back to real airplanes. The bad news is that 2018 is when the initial batches of 18Xers see their ADSCs expire and I expect a significant majority to separate, reducing RPA manning even further.

[Magellan]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news: expect to be stuck in RPAs for the indefinite future. The RPA spring VML webinar said they would not even start thinking of sending dudes back until 2018ish. RPAs are a shitty life and things are going to get worse before they get better. If (and it's a huge if) the 2016 manning surge works, they may be willing to release guys back to real airplanes. The bad news is that 2018 is when the initial batches of 18Xers see their ADSCs expire and I expect a significant majority to separate, reducing RPA manning even further.

This checks. Sorry dude.

[guineapigfury]

On the bright side: you will sleep in your own bed at night (and day when you're on mids), your peers are good people, killing the enemy is fun, and you'll get out of your UPT ADSC early when you get passed over for Major.