Wolf424 Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Right, so you're cool with giving cyber dudes Air Medals then? No, they shouldn't get AIR medals (nor AAMs for that matter). I'm not arguing medal precedence here But you are. You said: Your anger towards this medal in the name of injured soldiers shows that you have no clue what cyber tactics are being employed in theater today. That's the point everyone is trying to make. It shouldn't be as high as it is. I'm not as upset as some and I'm not going to lose sleep at night over it...but I completely agree that this medal should not be above the purple heart or bronze star.
Gravedigger Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 No, they shouldn't get AIR medals (nor AAMs for that matter). So what should they get? That's what this whole discussion is about. You said pilots who saved lives were given Air Medals. What about non-pilots? That's the point everyone is trying to make. It shouldn't be as high as it is. I'm not as upset as some and I'm not going to lose sleep at night over it...but I completely agree that this medal should not be above the purple heart or bronze star. I never once said where it should fall in order of precedence, but I do think it is supposed to be difficult to earn and rarely awarded. You can't honestly believe that falls bellow the Bronze Star, which without valor means little more than you are a Lt Col or Chief that deployed. Also, this medal doesn't diminish the sacrifice of a guy that has been injured during combat, in any way. You guys are comparing apples to oranges here. A LOM doesn't diminish a Purple Heart's significance because they are completely unrelated. Where does an achievement that has a significant impact on the safety of our nation and/or saving the lives of others fall? To me, it's above a Bronze Star, and has nothing to do with valor. It is entirely effects-based.
Wolf424 Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Copy...let's put it just below the medal of honor...since comparing them is apples and oranges. Put it in line with an Air Medal and the AAM. End of story and everyone would be fine with it. I get the whole "V" device argument...but when it comes down to it, this medal still outranks the Bronze Star with V device. I'm sorry, that's not right.
HU&W Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 I get the whole "V" device argument...but when it comes down to it, this medal still outranks the Bronze Star with V device. I'm sorry, that's not right. I'd like to know if you think the AFCAM placement is appropriate.
Gravedigger Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 I'd like to know if you think the AFCAM placement is appropriate. My personal favorite is the Prisoner of War Medal, which falls directly behind Organizational Excellence and just above Combat Readiness and Good Conduct.
BB Stacker Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Copy...let's put it just below the medal of honor...since comparing them is apples and oranges. Put it in line with an Air Medal and the AAM. End of story and everyone would be fine with it. I get the whole "V" device argument...but when it comes down to it, this medal still outranks the Bronze Star with V device. I'm sorry, that's not right. So something that is supposed to be for an achievement equivalent to that required to earn a DFC (and for which the USAF has identified something like a whopping 6 individuals it is even considering for award, going back retroactively for over a decade of war) should be in-line/below something that you get for boring holes in the sky in a "combat zone." Got it. Remember that half of every MQ-1/9 crew is enlisted (not sure what the breakdown is on the cyber side but I'm sure it's not all officers) and that decs, and more specifically the precedence/points associated with decs, play a role in promotion. This isn't just an academic argument over which fiddly bits of ribbon the O's get to wear on their chest.
AnimalMother Posted March 21, 2013 Posted March 21, 2013 Our entire medal/recognition program is an embarrassment. Like so many other aspects of our military, it has been perverted to serve the interests of careerist. Our modern generals look more like third world dictators than leaders of the "free world." Dig up a picture of General Eisenhower, conqueror of half the world, and see how many medals he wore on his chest. Just another symptom of the dysfunction that exists in our military.
ruckerstud Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 Do dudes who get DFCs get this much static? The only DFCs I have heard in the last couple of years were for rescue guys who ended up flying two or three helos (after the others were shot up bad enough to not be airworthy) into a fight to get some army guys out. But what they didn't do was personally get shot/burned/die/etc. So, because they didn't have as much risk or pay as high a price as a dude who got a purple heart or a lot of the guys who get BSMs w/ a V, should their DFCs be worth less that those medals?
nrodgsxr Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 Remember that half of every MQ-1/9 crew is enlisted (not sure what the breakdown is on the cyber side but I'm sure it's not all officers) and that decs, and more specifically the precedence/points associated with decs, play a role in promotion. This isn't just an academic argument over which fiddly bits of ribbon the O's get to wear on their chest. Doesn't matter for enlisted mq1/9 sensor operators. They max out on dec points very quickly in their first tour from AAMs unless they cross train as a senior nco and are in a leadership position. . But the dec points stop mattering for them at that point anyways.
Breckey Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 Do dudes who get DFCs get this much static? The only DFCs I have heard in the last couple of years were for rescue guys who ended up flying two or three helos (after the others were shot up bad enough to not be airworthy) into a fight to get some army guys out. But what they didn't do was personally get shot/burned/die/etc. So, because they didn't have as much risk or pay as high a price as a dude who got a purple heart or a lot of the guys who get BSMs w/ a V, should their DFCs be worth less that those medals? The Pedro guys (83/84 if i remember correctly) all got DFC's w/ Valor and the AC's got Silver Stars. https://www.afcent.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123254042 has the story when it first broke. Two of the FE's got shot. //historical threadjack
Azimuth Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 Do dudes who get DFCs get this much static? Some do. https://www.af.mil/information/bios/bio.asp?bioID=7912
RASH Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 Northern people. https://m.youtube.com...h?v=RuGQKwbExo8 Wrong thread bro...
backseatdriver Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 Some do. https://www.af.mil/information/bios/bio.asp?bioID=7912 5,000+ hours - he must be an incredible leader.
HiFlyer Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 5,000+ hours - he must be an incredible leader. Why do you think lots of hours has anything to do with being a good (or bad) leader??
backseatdriver Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 Why do you think lots of hours has anything to do with being a good (or bad) leader?? I don't. I was being sarcastic - highlighting the hole in the logic of the discussion in another thread on how those with low hours can't be good/credible leaders while here's someone with a ton of hours that does not seem to have many fans in the MAF.
Wolf424 Posted March 24, 2013 Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) So something that is supposed to be for an achievement equivalent to that required to earn a DFC (and for which the USAF has identified something like a whopping 6 individuals it is even considering for award, going back retroactively for over a decade of war) should be in-line/below something that you get for boring holes in the sky in a "combat zone." Got it. Remember that half of every MQ-1/9 crew is enlisted (not sure what the breakdown is on the cyber side but I'm sure it's not all officers) and that decs, and more specifically the precedence/points associated with decs, play a role in promotion. This isn't just an academic argument over which fiddly bits of ribbon the O's get to wear on their chest. Jesus Tap-dancing Christ, no one is talking about the broken promotion system. I have two E's on every sortie I fly...so pipe down Nancy. I know how important points are. Make it above the AM and AAM. It just shouldn't be where it is. I could literally not care less about how many merit badges adorn my service dress. No one is saying that the medal is a bad idea, it's strictly the placement of it. Are there other medals that maybe should be lower than they are? Sure. Take it up with your congressman. Keep in mind, some guys do get AMs for missions in those "combat zones" that you speak of, but they still have 100% more of a chance of getting a SA-7 up their ass then you do. edit: grammar Edited March 25, 2013 by Wolf424
Breckey Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 And its CANX'd Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel has decided to scrap the controversial Distinguished Warfare Medal that was intended to honor drone pilots and other high-tech troops. Just two months after its creation, Hagel said the Pentagon will replace the DWM with a device that can be attached to other previously existing medals.
SurelySerious Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 And its CANX'd Glad we can just get on with life now.
Blue Scourge Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 Common sense? Glad to hear it, was a stupid idea to begin with.
Sim Posted May 29, 2013 Posted May 29, 2013 minus one for the rest.... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-22691991#TWEET770810
stick Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 Not a pilot, but related... https://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/06/18787450-former-drone-operator-says-hes-haunted-by-his-part-in-more-than-1600-deaths?lite
tac airlifter Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 Not a pilot, but related... https://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/06/18787450-former-drone-operator-says-hes-haunted-by-his-part-in-more-than-1600-deaths?lite 1626 EKIA? I'm calling shenanigans.
Butters Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 a publicity whore will do pretty much anything degrading to entice the limelight their way. Fuck him. I do not see any terrorists going on Al Jizera (don't give a shit if I spelled it wrong) saying that the images of them videotaping the killing of American's with IEDs while chanting "aler ackbar" are haunting them. Some guys are just pussies. 4
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