SurelySerious Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 The number of pilots talented enough to do job well Yes, there's a difference even in UAVs, folks; more things on the doc statement than letting it self-wheel itself*. *Pop culture reference for those unfamiliar.
Hercster Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 So...despite the RPA bashing, what would some of your collective advice be for a guy like me? Low time legacy C-130 background, 1 flying tour, 1 CAOC tour, now on my 2nd non flying deployment. I'm not competitive for the airlines and with my low hours, I have a feeling it would be awkward to go back and cross train to J's. I'm seriously considering going drones, which would possibly open up contractor/law enforcement opportunities down the road if/when the AF decides to RIF folks once again, or I get passed over for not planning the last Christmas party. Thoughts? Much thanks in advance, commence the sarcasm and ridicule.
guineapigfury Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 I did one RPA tour and am now at the FTU to be an instructor. Ops as a line RPA flyer was the worst experience of my life. That already miserable existence is going to get much worse in 2016 and 2017 for those flying the line. As we nearly double instructor manning at the FTU, ops squadrons are going to pay the bill. So already undermanned and overworked units are going to be undermanned even further. The squadron I came from has a bill for 18 IPs and there weren't 18 IPs in the entire squadron when I left. You can see where that is going. If (and this is a gigantic if) we can double production at the FTU while maintaining quality, things should improve in Ops squadrons around early 2018. That assumes the USAF can identify a previously undiscovered pool of talented folks who want to do this job. That is a very questionable assumption IMHO. If you are going to volunteer for this to improve your quality of life then you are making an uninformed decision. If your number 1 priority is avoiding TDYs and deployments, you're making a good decision. Understand that if you come to RPAs you are probably never leaving. I will add that my worst day flying was better than my best day in RPAs. TLDR: timing is everything, things are going to get significantly worse before they might get better, flying RPAs is miserable. Overall, I do not recommend this job. 1
Chaff Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 If you are interested in getting RIF'd RPAs is probably not the place you want to be, at least for the near future. There are plenty of people in RPAs who wanted out last go and would have gotten released had they been in another MWS. I agree with guineapigfury. If you want to TDY and deploy as little as possible it's a good place. There are plenty of low time C-130 dudes around Creech. Most are pissed off non-vols. The ones who volunteered seem happy.
Clark Griswold Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 I did one RPA tour and am now at the FTU to be an instructor. Ops as a line RPA flyer was the worst experience of my life. That already miserable existence is going to get much worse in 2016 and 2017 for those flying the line. As we nearly double instructor manning at the FTU, ops squadrons are going to pay the bill. So already undermanned and overworked units are going to be undermanned even further. The squadron I came from has a bill for 18 IPs and there weren't 18 IPs in the entire squadron when I left. You can see where that is going. If (and this is a gigantic if) we can double production at the FTU while maintaining quality, things should improve in Ops squadrons around early 2018. That assumes the USAF can identify a previously undiscovered pool of talented folks who want to do this job. That is a very questionable assumption IMHO. If you are going to volunteer for this to improve your quality of life then you are making an uninformed decision. If your number 1 priority is avoiding TDYs and deployments, you're making a good decision. Understand that if you come to RPAs you are probably never leaving. I will add that my worst day flying was better than my best day in RPAs. TLDR: timing is everything, things are going to get significantly worse before they might get better, flying RPAs is miserable. Overall, I do not recommend this job. Are there proposals for tours for ANG / AFR for RPAs to fill the gaps until the manning is on a better footing? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
guineapigfury Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 Are there proposals for tours for ANG / AFR for RPAs to fill the gaps until the manning is on a better footing? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk This is already happening. My old unit had a significant Guard and Reserve presence. My captain level understanding of the deal was "we'll get em through MQT if you come back and fly with us periodically until you get your CAP." This significantly increased IP workload upfront but paid dividends later when they came back and helped out. The real bonus was networking with the guys in the lifeboats because the Titanic hit the iceberg and there aren't enough seats for everyone. There are rumors of involuntary activations for RPA ANG/AFR units. My understanding from talking to the Guard and Reserve guys is that you can be on orders for as long as you want right now. YMMV.
Clark Griswold Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 This is already happening. My old unit had a significant Guard and Reserve presence. My captain level understanding of the deal was "we'll get em through MQT if you come back and fly with us periodically until you get your CAP." This significantly increased IP workload upfront but paid dividends later when they came back and helped out. The real bonus was networking with the guys in the lifeboats because the Titanic hit the iceberg and there aren't enough seats for everyone. There are rumors of involuntary activations for RPA ANG/AFR units. My understanding from talking to the Guard and Reserve guys is that you can be on orders for as long as you want right now. YMMV. Copy that - thanks Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Herkasaurus Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 I'm not competitive for the airlines and with my low hours, I have a feeling it would be awkward to go back and cross train to J's. . I don't understand this rationale...you have 130 experience. You would go to the J, get 50hrs, and upgrade to AC if you were previously an AC. What's awkward about it? Unless you're worried about hitting your PRF as a copilot, but that hasn't affected the community since 2010 ish with that round of RIFs.
Hercster Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 What I meant by that is that if I go back, I'll have more time as a J co-pilot than I do as an AC from E/H's. I'll be that major (hopefully by then) that they don't know what to do with, an ADO perhaps that gets the misc projects. Haven't even deployed as an AC yet, so I feel like I'll have no credibility to boot. At least that's my perception...
Champ Kind Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 No one will care as long as you're not a douche. 3
MooseAg03 Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 No kidding, if I even had the slightest opportunity to stay in an actual cockpit, I would jump on it. RPAs are a black hole that you will probably never make it out of. Keep building your C-130 experience, and remember there are quite a few guard units available when you're ready to make the jump off active duty. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
FlyinGrunt Posted June 20, 2015 Posted June 20, 2015 Hercster, I have had a similar experience in the gunship world, though perhaps (IDK?) with more hours involved. I would equate the slick J differences up front/performance to the legacy/PSP differences in the gunpig world, though I do not pretend to lecture you about your own community there. The question is: do you understand the mission, and how to manage it? If so, I'm with with MooseAg, press for that J and volunteer for everything. If you're a good AC and encourage your crew's inputs on systems, I can't imagine why you wouldn't be successful.
kaputt Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 UPT Students sitting casual waiting for class start are being briefed that RPAs are going to be dropping from UPT again. Not sure what classes might be the first but it seems they will be spread out amongst all four bases.
12xu2a3x3 Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) UPT Students sitting casual waiting for class start are being briefed that RPAs are going to be dropping from UPT again. Not sure what classes might be the first but it seems they will be spread out amongst all four bases. awesome wouldn't adding people to a pipeline that already can't keep up with demand simply exacerbate the problem? Edited June 22, 2015 by 12xu2a3x3
Prosuper Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Went back 12 pages to make sure wasn't posted before but I saw this today, so RPA guys boo their commanders. https://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/20/how-america-broke-its-drone-force.html
BFM this Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Words fail me. UPT direct was a worse idea than the "one way door" mantra peddled when I got my assignment. The AF's inability to turn the simplest of Lessons Learned into practice is breathtaking. 4
Chaff Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Why is opening a second RIQ/RFC squadron at Randolph and giving more RPA slots to ROTC and the academy not a better solution? They don't even need to pull RPA dudes to run the squadron. Most of the instructors are contractors and it didn't seem to hard to find Air Force pilots willing to live in San Antonio and teach dudes how to fly IFR in the sim. Edited June 23, 2015 by Chaff
HU&W Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Why is opening a second RIQ/RFC squadron at Randolph and giving more RPA slots to ROTC and the academy not a better solution? They don't even need to pull RPA dudes to run the squadron. Most of the instructors are contractors and it didn't seem to hard to find Air Force pilots willing to live in San Antonio and teach dudes how to fly IFR in the sim. Completely agree with the first part, but I disagree with the second. I think we need folks that are experienced in RPA ops training up the next generation.
fox two Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Words fail me. UPT direct was a worse idea than the "one way door" mantra peddled when I got my assignment. The AF's inability to turn the simplest of Lessons Learned into practice is breathtaking. Wasn't around when that happened, what made it worse than the current situation?
SurelySerious Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Why is opening a second RIQ/RFC squadron at Randolph and giving more RPA slots to ROTC and the academy not a better solution? They don't even need to pull RPA dudes to run the squadron. Most of the instructors are contractors and it didn't seem to hard to find Air Force pilots willing to live in San Antonio and teach dudes how to fly IFR in the sim. URT isn't a great solution in general.
BFM this Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 Wasn't around when that happened, what made it worse than the current situation?Not sure if I'm following your question, but it's kind of like your company commander turning to you and saying: "Buck up, Soldier. It will work this time, I'm sure of it!" ...oh, and he's telling you that while you're getting off the boat at Gallipoli. 1
fox two Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 Not sure if I'm following your question, but it's kind of like your company commander turning to you and saying: "Buck up, Soldier. It will work this time, I'm sure of it!" ...oh, and he's telling you that while you're getting off the boat at Gallipoli. Isn't that what's already going on this year? Lots of units right now are getting 100% must-fill RPA billets. But with the 2nd/3rd assignment pilots, their commitments are coming up in a few years and they have no intention of staying.
Guest Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 URT is doubling production for FY16. In the process of hiring 14+ more civilian sim instructors and expect more green-suiters as well. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
BFM this Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 Isn't that what's already going on this year? Lots of units right now are getting 100% must-fill RPA billets. But with the 2nd/3rd assignment pilots, their commitments are coming up in a few years and they have no intention of staying. Maybe if the Air Force walked the talk. There is already a mechanism in place to provide a steady flow of rated talent: the ALFA tour construct. How about getting guys after their first tour, and getting them back to their jet? Better yet, how about getting some of the folks already in the field a chance to get back. I'm under no delusions here: I led a charmed existence as an 11F--that's the only reason that I'm not sitting in NM and I have a manned Form-8. My comments were about repeating bad ideas: UPT direct tops that list.URT is doubling production for FY16. In the process of hiring 14+ more civilian sim instructors and expect more green-suiters as well. Yes, this is productive, but this will incur a short term cost to the units as they shoulder the spike in the FTU bill. How about planning further out, so we're not repeating past mistakes?
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