Drone Pilots: We Don’t Get No Respect

[Jaded]

There were a bunch of FAIPs passed over for major in 2011 for similar reasons. Really good dudes, really good pilots, but a "weak" record doomed them to be twice passed over captains. 

[guineapigfury]

The selection rate to Major is usually  above 90%.  Don't stress too much.

[Duck]

And it's only going to get higher. I think now days a 95%+ selection rate will be the norm. The days of guys getting forced out as Captains are over, until the next AFPC debacle.

[Jaded]

That's what people thought in 2010 too. 

[Clark Griswold]

15 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

Honestly, all of these minor issues have solutions, it's all about priorities.  If the AF cared enough to fix the RPA world, they could.  But they don't care.  They care about F35s and the future war with China which will never happen.

Yup - refining that idea, ACC truly doesn't give a shit about RPAs (crew force career, QOL, etc...)  They won't let another branch or command have it but they don't want to do it in a way other than min run.  This has come up before and I don't think another branch would do it better but another command maybe... who that is I don't know, a new command maybe that has 0.069% chance of happening. 

A new command to take in all the assets and people that ACC doesn't give enough love to, AWACS-JSTARS-RPA-RIVET, needs to happen or at least build out AFISRA with the assets shifted to it and assigned to another command.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2016 by Clark Griswold

[Snuggie]

19 hours ago, viper154 said:

Question for the older guys, probably a better career related thread to place this but it's semi relative. I'm a UPT direct guy hoping to go back manned after my tour is up (ya ya might not happen, we've beat that horse already). Because of all the delays with sequester and typical AF BS, it took me 8 months to go on AD after commissioning, another 7 months casual waiting to start UPT, finished UPT on time, and when everything is all said and done a year to get fully qualified in the MQ-9. That being said, I have my training report from UPT, and I won't have my first OPR until I'm a Capt. IF the 3 year tour is honored (ya ya don't kill my hope) by the time I get IQ in the manned follow on I'm going to be going up for my major board with two training reports and 2 maybe 3 OPRs. 

Is taking the time going backed manned going to be career killer? I have no problem being a 20 yr major or going guard after my 10, but I would like to be realistic on my expectations. 

The first few of the last round of UPT directs were in the last majors board. The ones I am aware of made it. For the 07 board that is about to be released most of the guys were at least a Aircraft Commander in their manned follow on. But it will be interesting to see how many of them make it and the reasoning for those who are passed over. 

If your goal is to make O-4, staying in RPAs would be a safe bet. You should be an IP and could have a clearer path at getting into certain programs (Weapons School) than as a 2nd assignment manned guy. But staying in something you hate to make O-4 isn't worth it. 

 

[Magellan]

4 minutes ago, Snuggie said:

The first few of the last round of UPT directs were in the last majors board. The ones I am aware of made it. For the 07 board that is about to be released most of the guys were at least a Aircraft Commander in their manned follow on. But it will be interesting to see how many of them make it and the reasoning for those who are passed over. 

If your goal is to make O-4, staying in RPAs would be a safe bet. You should be an IP and could have a clearer path at getting into certain programs (Weapons School) than as a 2nd assignment manned guy. But staying in something you hate to make O-4 isn't worth it. 

 

This is accurate.

I think you may see SOME 07 guys get kicked in the junk though.  That said the result may have been the same for them had they been AMC guys the whole time.  If so at least they will be set up for the airlines and able to get out sooner than the guys who get promoted.

[ShavedDogsAss]

This is accurate.

I think you may see SOME 07 guys get kicked in the junk though.  That said the result may have been the same for them had they been AMC guys the whole time...

Unfortunately, many non-RPA commanders still perceive RPAs as a dumping ground for the "unwashed".

Until that mindset is changed, it would be unfair to match percentage to percentage against other MDS. I'd like to think that a dirtbag is a dirtbag, regardless of MDS. Let's hope the boards see the same.

[viper154]

1 hour ago, Snuggie said:

The first few of the last round of UPT directs were in the last majors board. The ones I am aware of made it. For the 07 board that is about to be released most of the guys were at least a Aircraft Commander in their manned follow on. But it will be interesting to see how many of them make it and the reasoning for those who are passed over. 

If your goal is to make O-4, staying in RPAs would be a safe bet. You should be an IP and could have a clearer path at getting into certain programs (Weapons School) than as a 2nd assignment manned guy. But staying in something you hate to make O-4 isn't worth it. 

 

The mission seems rewarding, and for my wants and desires I got a good deal going to the unit I'm heading too. That being said I want to go back manned, if I get shafted so be it, I love to fly. How do Guard/Reserve units look at guys that got passed over but otherwise have a clean/decent record? 

[herkbum]

The mission seems rewarding, and for my wants and desires I got a good deal going to the unit I'm heading too. That being said I want to go back manned, if I get shafted so be it, I love to fly. How do Guard/Reserve units look at guys that got passed over but otherwise have a clean/decent record? 

I don't even ask if you were passed over. Only know if you tell me. Mainly only care if you have a clean record and you check out thru bro network/guys in the squadron like you.

[ViperStud]

6 hours ago, herkbum said:

I don't even ask if you were passed over. Only know if you tell me. Mainly only care if you have a clean record and you check out thru bro network/guys in the squadron like you.

This.  If someone is one of the (exceedingly rare) dudes that got screwed 100% by circumstances/timing, it'll be an afterthought. If a dude ends up passed over because he's lazy/bad then that comes out when we start passing names around the squadron.  Overwhelmingly though, getting passed over for Maj is a symptom.  The promotion rate is generally 95%; Do good/don't suck and things will take care of themselves.  No one is going to fool a guard unit into thinking they were a victim of circumstances if there are other issues.

[Duck]

I've known several twice passed over Captains hired at ANG units. One guy just got hired at a F-15C unit as a Strike Eagle dude with few connections at the unit. He also got picked up at most of the legacy airlines as well. Great dude that got completely screwed by the system. I was sitting in the Exec seat (I hate my life) during his second pass over (which he requested via letter to the board) and after going through his paperwork it was obvious no one had taken care of him. Great dude and is happier now than he ever was on Active Duty.

[pawnman]

On 5/28/2016 at 7:35 PM, Jaded said:

There were a bunch of FAIPs passed over for major in 2011 for similar reasons. Really good dudes, really good pilots, but a "weak" record doomed them to be twice passed over captains. 

Bunch of FAIPs passed over...remind me again, what's the AFSC we're so short-manned in CSAF keeps telling Congress we have a problem?

[Guest]

Bunch of FAIPs passed over...remind me again, what's the AFSC we're so short-manned in CSAF keeps telling Congress we have a problem?

I'm pretty sure it's 38PX

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Duck]

Was it because they were FAIPs that they were passed over, or were they passed over because they were FAIPs? Kidding, I have a special place in my heart for them.

[Clark Griswold]

Why even have FAIPs?  Nothing against them, most of the ones when in UPT were not that bad but it just screws up the primary intent of UPT, to supply pilots to the MWS community..  Offer droid drivers that were TAMI'd or re-cat'd a ticket out if they have paid the piper and want to go back to a manned platform - 3 years in RPAs sounds about right.  AF pays the UPT bill, might save a pilot from becoming so embittered they want to punch at the end of their ADSC.

I would rather them get a golden apple (MWS or base of preference) but instead of keeping them somewhere they don't want to be, solve two problems at once and give some hope to the 11U's there is a way out.

Emerging from the shelter....

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2016 by Clark Griswold
cocaine is a helluva drug

[guineapigfury]

I think the intent behind FAIPs is that flying squadrons need Lt's to do Lt stuff.  Otherwise you have too many guys bunched at the same point in their career and dudes get left holding the bag come OPR closeout date.  Also a 1Lt or new Captain might be able to better relate to the 2Lt's going through training.

[Azimuth]

45 minutes ago, guineapigfury said:

I think the intent behind FAIPs is that flying squadrons need Lt's to do Lt stuff.  Otherwise you have too many guys bunched at the same point in their career and dudes get left holding the bag come OPR closeout date.  Also a 1Lt or new Captain might be able to better relate to the 2Lt's going through training.

Then how to FTU/RTU squadron's function without any Lt's?

[Majestik Møøse]

15 minutes ago, Azimuth said:

Then how to FTU/RTU squadron's function without any Lt's?

They redirect their hate to the booms.

[HossHarris]

The have a constant stream of Lts ....

the b-coursers

[Clark Griswold]

1 hour ago, guineapigfury said:

I think the intent behind FAIPs is that flying squadrons need Lt's to do Lt stuff.  Otherwise you have too many guys bunched at the same point in their career and dudes get left holding the bag come OPR closeout date.  Also a 1Lt or new Captain might be able to better relate to the 2Lt's going through training.

Valid points.  My solution that has negative 6.9% chance of ever being adopted would be to put these likely Captains and some Majors on a specific assignment profile and probably administratively assigned to a different squadron (OSS or the like) than the regular squadrons in the OG.  This could prevent the potential problem at the squadron level and/or mitigate it as at the Wing level as they would eventually come into competition.  Not perfect but something.

[guineapigfury]

Option C is to promote officers in severly undermanned AFSCs to Major the same way we do Captain and 1Lt.  That might help retention in the career fields that are truly hurting.  Unfortunately that would foil the "get passed over so I can get out of my UPT ADSC early" technique.

[Clark Griswold]

3 hours ago, guineapigfury said:

Option C is to promote officers in severly undermanned AFSCs to Major the same way we do Captain and 1Lt.  That might help retention in the career fields that are truly hurting.  Unfortunately that would foil the "get passed over so I can get out of my UPT ADSC early" technique.

Fine by me.  There has to be a reason for people to want to go RPAs, not just being forced too.  RPA assignment = virtually automatic promotion is not bad.

I have heard of the technique of career self-sabotage but didn't realize it was actually being practiced at an appreciable level and in the RPA world to shorten the time in by circumventing the ADSC, that is a helluva canary in the cole mine for how bad it is.

ISR getting pulled out of ACC (sts) is the only way to actually fix the RPA enterprise, revise AF Intelligence Command and let RPA, JSTARS, AWACS and RIVET have their own treehouse to play by their own rules rather than keeping them in an abusive relationship with ACC.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Clark Griswold

[ViperStud]

9 hours ago, Clark Griswold said:

Valid points.  My solution that has negative 6.9% chance of ever being adopted would be to put these likely Captains and some Majors on a specific assignment profile and probably administratively assigned to a different squadron (OSS or the like) than the regular squadrons in the OG.  This could prevent the potential problem at the squadron level and/or mitigate it as at the Wing level as they would eventually come into competition.  Not perfect but something.

Make more attached guys that would fly the bare min and always put in availability for only 2nd go, but never after 3? F that. 

How about we just have our own promotion boards so dudes Tripping over their johnson to compete against the finance Capt or pharmacy tech with an extra 20 hrs a week to throw towards planning parties or being the Asian Pacific Islander heritage month POC?

[Clark Griswold]

9 hours ago, ViperStud said:

Make more attached guys that would fly the bare min and always put in availability for only 2nd go, but never after 3? F that. 

How about we just have our own promotion boards so dudes Tripping over their johnson to compete against the finance Capt or pharmacy tech with an extra 20 hrs a week to throw towards planning parties or being the Asian Pacific Islander heritage month POC?

Yep, discussed earlier in the thread but that is a huge fly in the ointment, was that way also in AMC but was more obnoxious in my RPA assignment. 

Do you mean promotion boards restricted to a certain AFSC(s) so RPA pilots are only competing against other RPA guys? 

Lots of good ideas brought out lately in this thread that are feasible if the AF really wants to solve the RPA morale blackhole, it could act on them with Congressional approval, that will be the rub to tell Congress we want to go 180 out from where we have been going with this career field and get it approved.

Better base locations and dispersed across way more time zones, manned aircraft companion program, career incentives for attracting fast swimmers, etc...

Edited May 31, 2016 by Clark Griswold
parting shot