Drone Pilots: We Don’t Get No Respect

[brabus]

I think there's an update to that reg about a year ago. I was told (and then found it written somewhere) the AFT ADSC will extend past your UPT commitment. This was the driving reason I turned down a TX to another aircraft. Absolutely true this was not the case in the recent past, but AFPC has "fixed the glitch."

[MooseAg03]

The version of AFI 36-2107 on e-publishing is from April of 2012. It still has note 1b that says AFT commitments won't extend beyond 10 years rated service. If anyone else has seen anything in writing that is newer, please share it.

https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/afi36-2107/afi36-2107.pdf


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[brabus]

I'll try to find it again. But, I was only looking at it through the lense of going to an aircraft I've never flown, so may not apply to requal in a previously flown aircraft. 

EDIT: Found what I read earlier; the extra 3 yr ADSC that can be past your initial UPT ADSC is only for a Qual in an aircraft you've never been qual'd in before. N/A if you're requaling, regardless of how many years out of the jet. Source is discussion from this thread, last page: 

 

Edited November 30, 2016 by brabus

[sqwatch]

I wrote this while deployed after watching "good kill". Lots of words, some of them funny.



I rented good kill from itunes the other day, and within the first 5 minutes i was p1ssed off. I thought the only good that could come from this movie is to reign in its bullsh1t by correcting the inaccuracies. I am exceptionally qualified to offer such corrections, as the film is a biography- melding the personalities of ###-### and myself to form the protagonist maj Eagan (coincidence?). please enjoy and learn from the following

first five minutes:
you can't hear jet noise in the GCS unless you flew your droid into a wormhole where it was teleported within earshot of the parking lot of creech and you buzzed yourself. Unless the government has invented wormhole-proof datalinks, the driod would immediately lose connection. further, the mq9 is a turboPROP. The least the producers could have done is dubbed in some droning propeller noise for accuracy but these are the same clowns who took footage of maj Eagan dancing on the rudder peddles like he's sweetening up a guns kill at WIC. NO ONE touches the rudder peddles unless you dropped your can of chew, and even then I'd use a pencil or some other inanimate object to fish out whatever fell behind those funny looking foot peddles. The opening scenes also show the driod at 9k AGL or something ridiculous. You might as well send in a 4 ship of vipers because they'd have the same noise signature at that alt.
Other stupid shit in the first five minutes:
the camera doesn't click- it's not a polaroid
the sensor operator doesn't talk enough about world of warcraft
The people in the back of the GCS talk way too much
not enough awkward silence.

minute 6:
a car with unknown occupants (collateral) rapidly approaches from the north. Eagan and the SO get all worked up in a dither because they can't "take the shot" if it's within their FOV- never mind actual CDE numbers. Jezus, if it's the FOV they're worried about why don't they drop that bird down another couple thousand feet or just zoom in-problem solved. anyway, Eagan is in such a hurry that he expeditiously counts down from three to zero before he shoots his hellfire. He's not launching the space shuttle atlantis, therefore you don't need a stupid countdown-just shoot the weapon. However, you would be surprised how many tools would practice their counting skills before shooting a missile in the UAV world. It was a habit I tried and failed to break and i see it made it all the way to Hollywood despite my best efforts.

minute 7:
Rando lt col busts in the GCS to blather on about what a great strike it was and barks random orders. then exclaims "careful eagan, you're beak to beak with an mq1" and the sensor ball magically picks up some other driod trundling through the airspace faster than an IRST sensor could have. There's a lot wrong with this, like why would the mq1 be co-alt while entering the stack, but then i thought it was probably some JSTAR pilot sent to driods so that made sense. the most irritating thing was the colonel being there to begin with. You ever heard of CRM? don't mess with it and GTFO of the GCS.

minute 8:
the movie shows some place that is not creech AFB. there are few HumVees at creech yet in the movie they drive around like it's Baghdad circa 2004.

Eagan makes a right turn out of the gate to go home. He either lives in reno (nope), the director was practicing good opsec (absolutely nope) or they consulted no-one about this movie other than some tin-hat clown on chemtrails.net about military accuracy.

Eagan is then shown cruising through vegas in fancy classic car. The car is accurate-plenty of heart broke aviators tried to subdue their pain with large purchases. one need look no further than your's truly to see what happens when a figher pilot tries to replace all he's lost with large ticket toys (mooney, sports car, electric hoverboard skate thing), but no one lives south of the 215 that goes to creech because the drive is too damn long and costs more money over time. you'd rather spend that money on Avgas or up your montly on your pittycar than waste it on an extra half hour of commute time one way by living near the strip.

On the plus side, his wife is accurately bummed out when eagan announces he's moving to nights. you may as well be TDY for 7 weeks.

back to the inaccuracies: Eagan then refuses his wife's advances. bullsh1t. Nothing is more satisfying than wasting terrorists then going for a role in the hay. no current or former fighter pilot turns down the advances of his wife/girlfriend - ever.

Eagan then drives to work the next day via las vegas blvd. I don't even take LVBVD when i'm on the strip because the traffic is so awful, let alone use it as a thoroughfare.

minute 9:15- lt col says "fvck" in his welcome brief- would be instantly fired.

lt col talks about how hard it is to take off and land these "birds". WRONG. many pilots have demonstrated that they can't land their previous airframe but can land the MQx just fine.

minute 10: six to nine more "fvck" from the lt col during brief. Dishonorable discharge for sure.

"3k viper hours as a major?". this has never happened.

There are no co-pilots in UAVS- there is a pilot and a sensor operator. Let me rephrase that- there are plenty of co-pilots in the UAV community who spent 5 years in whatever platform they came from and were never upgraded, but as far as duties within the UAV community, there are no co-pilots.

The new "co-pilot" is touted to have 500 hours in the MQ-9. 500 whole hours!!!! average day = 7 hours of "flight" time. that's about 80 work days of experience. Whew, the day is won and we can all relax.

Eagan asks "what's the lag at?" Well Eagan, it's probably exactly the same as what they told you in the TX course and it hasn't changed since ever. But maybe I'm pessimistic and today is the day that the USAF paid general atomics a gagillion dollars to solve that latency problem.

It seems like all the shots are around 10" TOF. either they doubled the size of the rocket motor on the hellfire and they now cruise through the sky with the speed of a meteor or the bullsh1t factory that is hollywood just got away with another doozie.

The lt col is still nervously hovering about. I've seen leadership hover inside the GCS. when you're out of bodies and all you have left is the C130 navigator to put in a kenetic situation, godd@mn right leadership makes sure he arms the weapons and doesn't set the autopilot to roll inverted and stay there until it's out of gas while permanently shutting off the datalink but Eagan is a superstar, so seeing the boss hover around (and even give clearance) makes me more annoyed.

17:00 - choppers at creech. no one lands there except the thunderbirds with EPs because real pilots don't like the uncomfortable looks they get from a thousand heartbroke aviators. It's like bringing chipotle to refugee camp in Somalia and not having enough for everyone.

21:00 someone asks eagan "i heard you want to go back to combat". And i heard that octo-mom isn't a virgin.

26:00 lt col still hovering about, giving clearance to engage and pi$$iing me off about the whole bullsh1t hollywood establishment.

26:30 "3 2 1, rifle" good grief.

29:00 after whining about being a droid pilot, Eagan's boss tells him to take the day off. I'm delighted that the manning situation has improved so much that they can give days off to disgruntled majors who can't handle the stress of sitting in a chair for 8 hours a day.

33:00 enter the CIA, who apparently thinks that in between hellfire shots is the best time to discuss foreign policy with combative droid crews.

35:00 there's some doubt as to whether Eagan can make the shot happen due to turbulence. that's like asking me if i can still do a good carrier landing on a veneer table top vs marble- it doesn't fvcking matter.

36:00 cafeteria food at creech- WRONG. they had a casino next door that served good food but the AF demolished it. they have your standard bullshit subway, but most importantly there is a delicious Korean restaurant on base (I know, WTF, right?) that has decent seating outside.

43:00 mouthy sassypants good-looking sensor operator opens her lippy piehole again with her politically driven vitriol and asks "what are we, Hamas?" well ms sassypants, maybe we are, it depends on who our enemies are at the time. If we're fighint ISIS, then I suppose we are on the same side as Hamas. If we're securing bagdad in 2003, then no, we want to kill Hamas and the other Shia militias but she nor hollywood has any idea nor do they give a sh1t.

45:00 more political discussions than capitol hill. shutting the fvck up WRT political viewpoints is a survival mechanism almost all of us have developed after our first 6 months in the military but having a stoic disposition and com discipline doesn't sell movie tickets.

47:00 the "date" between ms sassypants and eagan is awful. If I could have taken my wife up for an f-16 ride like eagan claims he did, just think of all the money I could have saved had I not had to court her and get her to look past my ginger good looks without the expensive dog-and-pony shows at nice restaurants and spontaneous, impromptu, fun, rebellious dates. "hey wife, just strap in the back seat of this D model and stand by for marriage". Fvck you hollywood.

48:00 "the thrill of landing an f16 on a carrier". Hollywood, fvck you.

the whole date with ms sassypants is bullsh1t. I saw several officers lose their sh1t (and careers/families) because they submitted to the siren's call of ms sassypants. pretty hard to get a job as a washout uav operator with paperwork.

54:00 when egan "turns off the video recorder", he is actually turning off the pilot and sensor consoles of the GCS. Hollywood got away with another one.

55:00 eagan is texting in the GCS. this isn't the ops desk at base x-cell phones are not allowed.

59:00 and the rest of the movie- they've finally found a way to make that elusive hover-mode work.


1:05 Hollywood sends eagan on a huge pitty-party around this time, where he confesses to his wife that he blows everyone up to include the attendees at funerals. It's so full of bullsh1t the septic tanks here at base-x have less fecal matter in them. but during this whole time what pis$es me off the most is Eagan has been wearing his leather jacket the whole time, in vegas, in the summer. Bro, i get it. Those jackets look SHARP and I love my custom jacket from dark-horse more than any man should love a piece of clothing. but if you want me to listen to your bullsh1t about how you kill women and kids, don't distract me with your wardrobe.

1:22 I was blown away when i noticed a small detail in the briefing room- the 8 point orbit drawn on the white board!!! that is accurate, as were some of the other things drawn on the board. These clowns talk about landing f16s on carriers but had the hired expertise to accurately draw stuff on the whiteboards? I'm so confused right now.

1:23 ms sassy pants has to be told twice to turn the laser on. weird how I've never had to tell my index finger twice in the viper.

1:29 sh1t looks pretty bad for eagan. his wife left him, he's never going back to the viper. looks like it's time to execute plan B:

"Plan B" is when you target your own GCS with a hellfire missile. think about it, it's some existential, deep futuristic sh1t.

1:30 eagan stops drinking after his wife leaves him. Wife=drinking problem.

The rest of the movie is full of more horrible inaccuracies, and we all remember the "i'm still first class" line of crap ms sassypants ends her hollywood debut with. Of note, he turns off his "video recorders" (GCS) again and shoots that bearded crazy at the end of the movie. never mind that there was no laser energy guiding the weapon. Finally, at the end of the movie, he makes a left turn leaving creech. I was relived that the producer finally got something right but not 14 seconds later he's in Reno.

Verdict 2/5 stars. the two stars come from the accurate portrayal of the compensating-for-somethin car and the 8 point orbit drawn on the white board. the rest is sh1t.




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[HU&W]

22 minutes ago, sqwatch said:

most importantly there WAS a delicious Korean restaurant on base 

FIFY

[viper154]

Only read about half. Agreeed on all points, with a note, I have been lower than 10k for very specific mission reasons. 

I explained to a friends family what flying a RPA was like over the holidays. First question they asked "Is like a video game?" The American public really has no clue, the media has been feeding them way to many bullshit stories over the years.  

[herkbum]

...The American public really has no clue, the media has been feeding them way to many bullshit stories over the years.  

And this surprises who?


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[viper154]

9 hours ago, herkbum said:

 

 

And this surprises who?


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Good point, it was earlier I didn't have my coffee yet 

[nsplayr]

New basong announcements for several airframes here, but notably there will be an active duty MCE at Shaw AFB, SC startig in FY18. Fingers explains explicitly that the decision was made to improve QOL and increase leadership and rotation opportunities. Never been to Shaw myself but seems like an upgrade from the two options available now!

https://www.airforcetimes.com/articles/more-bases-named-to-host-f-35-k-46-and-mq-9-operations?utm_content=buffer942fd&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Edited January 15, 2017 by nsplayr

[sixpack]

Shaw.  That place is terrible.  I'd take Creech any day over that place.  Never been to Cannon so can't say if it's better than that.  

 

If the Air Force was concerned about QOL they could have picked from dozens of other bases.  This sounds like some SC congressman lobbying for their area.  

Edited January 15, 2017 by sixpack

[Clark Griswold]

1 hour ago, nsplayr said:

New basong announcements for several airframes here, but notably there will be an active duty MCE at Shaw AFB, SC startig in FY18. Fingers explains explicitly that the decision was made to improve QOL and increase leadership and rotation opportunities. Never been to Shaw myself but seems like an upgrade from the two options available now!

https://www.airforcetimes.com/articles/more-bases-named-to-host-f-35-k-46-and-mq-9-operations?utm_content=buffer942fd&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

A step in the right direction, now to really get better Z clock coverage, time to add that PACAF MQ-9 base(s)

 

[HU&W]

2 minutes ago, Clark Griswold said:

A step in the right direction, now to really get better Z clock coverage, time to add that PACAF MQ-9 base(s)

 

Not going to happen.  Follow the sun is dead.

The best thing about Shaw being one of the bases is that it was also on the other list with Tyndall, Eglin, and Vandenburg.  Now the second base will definitely be one of those three (not Shaw).  The worst thing that could have happened would have been Mountain Home and Shaw.

[Clark Griswold]

2 minutes ago, HU&W said:

Not going to happen.  Follow the sun is dead.

The best thing about Shaw being one of the bases is that it was also on the other list with Tyndall, Eglin, and Vandenburg.  Now the second base will definitely be one of those three (not Shaw).  The worst thing that could have happened would have been Mountain Home and Shaw.

That is a damn shame.  

It's been years since I have driven a droid but the pain of mid-shifts lingers on... really, for the long term health of the people who fly/maintain/support this mission, that is a huge QOL issue and ultimately a major factor in retention, thus Big AF should have given it more weight.

PR to Guam with bases scattered in between to keep the crews working normal times, more CODELs interested in supporting the enterprise to bring home the bacon to their bases and options for career RPA folks.

Vandenburg is my vote FWIW (not anything) as that is at least on the other shining sea and a great location.

[17D_guy]

22 hours ago, Clark Griswold said:

That is a damn shame.  

It's been years since I have driven a droid but the pain of mid-shifts lingers on... really, for the long term health of the people who fly/maintain/support this mission, that is a huge QOL issue and ultimately a major factor in retention, thus Big AF should have given it more weight.

PR to Guam with bases scattered in between to keep the crews working normal times, more CODELs interested in supporting the enterprise to bring home the bacon to their bases and options for career RPA folks.

Vandenburg is my vote FWIW (not anything) as that is at least on the other shining sea and a great location.

I kinda doubt it, but It's a possible issue: the comm heavy requirements/costs of running to droids PACOM areas may preclude basing there.  We're having problems with other, less mission intense, programs getting up and running.  

Additionally, the political landscape is rough for getting that accomplished.

[Clark Griswold]

1 hour ago, 17D_guy said:

I kinda doubt it, but It's a possible issue: the comm heavy requirements/costs of running to droids PACOM areas may preclude basing there.  We're having problems with other, less mission intense, programs getting up and running.  

Additionally, the political landscape is rough for getting that accomplished.

Copy that.  

Keeping OPSEC front and center there has got to be some requirement for that kind of infrastructure in the PACOM theatre, with the Pacific Pivot (supposedly) I'm surprised there is resistance to building out/up mission infrastructure and capability.

 

[17D_guy]

3 hours ago, Clark Griswold said:

Copy that.  

Keeping OPSEC front and center there has got to be some requirement for that kind of infrastructure in the PACOM theatre, with the Pacific Pivot (supposedly) I'm surprised there is resistance to building out/up mission infrastructure and capability.

 

Having spent a year in Best Korea, and now with their cult-president being impeached, the frat, rape and AAFES taking bribes little surprises me about that place.  Me-guk probably doesn't want to pay what the Koreans are asking (plus the increase in the worldwide AAFES hiring quota).

Philippines are a no-go.  All we need is some DoD members getting shot and having crack sprinkled on them by a Durerte "anti-drug" gangs.  Plus, who wants to live in a place with martial law?

Outside of those 2 there are of course other options.  There are requirements for massive infrastructure upgrades...they're just taking YEARS longer than planned because PACOM.

EDIT - find it pretty interesting the AF managed to keep the serial rapist that was running around 2004-2006ish off Al Gore's internet.  I can't find anything on it and my Airman's roommate was assaulted.

Edited January 16, 2017 by 17D_guy

[Clark Griswold]

7 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

Outside of those 2 there are of course other options.  There are requirements for massive infrastructure upgrades...they're just taking YEARS longer than planned because PACOM.

Yup - was thinking Australia for a new OL.  

 

[BFM this]

Alice Springs > Creech


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[17D_guy]

As a kid I lived in Exmouth (which is the second red star above Learmonth) in the North West Cape.  Would do again in a heartbeat.

[Clark Griswold]

23 minutes ago, 17D_guy said:

As a kid I lived in Exmouth (which is the second red star above Learmonth) in the North West Cape.  Would do again in a heartbeat.

Yup - it's time for the RPA community to have at least one great overseas location.  

The problem being the politics, I doubt any ally, would allow kinetic RPA operations from their soil, except in conflicts / operations against morally unambiguous targets (conventional enemy forces, declared conflict, etc..).  

There's always a chance as they face threats in the PI / Indonesia that could spread to and threaten Australia but unfortunately I doubt it.

Edited January 16, 2017 by Clark Griswold

[Guest]

is the RPA community still poised to have large blocks of their experience vacate the fix in 2018? 

 

I recalled 2018 was supposed to be the year the flood gates start opening as folks get to the end of their initial ADSCs. Is this still the case? 

[viper154]

5 hours ago, 1111 said:

is the RPA community still poised to have large blocks of their experience vacate the fix in 2018? 

 

I recalled 2018 was supposed to be the year the flood gates start opening as folks get to the end of their initial ADSCs. Is this still the case? 

Yes. The intial group of 18x guys are up, and all the manned alpha tour guys are on the 18 VMLs to PCS back manned. We have 11 or 12 dudes I a squadron of 40 ish pilots with commitments expiring or 11s returning to manned flight. 

Edited December 3, 2017 by viper154

[mikezulu2016]

4 minutes ago, viper154 said:

Yes. The intial group of 18x guys are up, and all the manned tour guys are on the 18 VMLs to PCS back manned. We have 11 or 12 dudes I a squadron of 40 ish pilots with commitments expiring or 11s returning to manned flight. 

What's the retention rate looking like for the 18Xs?

[viper154]

1 minute ago, mikezulu2016 said:

What's the retention rate looking like for the 18Xs?

1 out of 8. And that one is a prior with 4 years until retirement. The consensus is similar to that on the manned side, 25-35g a year bonus is nothing when contracting drone jobs are paying anywhere from $100,000 - $400,000 a year depending on what your quals are. All us Alpha tour guys are going back manned, no one is willing to recat and sacrifice manned time for airline apps 

[mikezulu2016]

Figured as much. Going to be a rough times ahead...I just made it to RND and won't hit IFT until apr-jun next year. Pipeline is so jacked right now. 

Edited December 3, 2017 by mikezulu2016