"War on Islam" course suspended at JFSC

[BQZip01]

On both sides, warped versions of ideologies led to loss of life.

The catch is that militant Islam (currently) is the leading cause of violence on Muslims and is the leading cause of terrorism almost everywhere. It's one thing when Tim McVeigh blows up something (it's an isolated, disorganized act by a sole individual), but it is quite another for organizations to go on a multi-decade campaign (Taliban, Al Qaeda, Hezbolah, Islamic Jihad, etc and they all share a common religion)

I also concur that this PC bullshit is out of line. Until we can confront the most extreme sectors of our society with clear thought and reason, their voices will continue to be heard. When they are conclusively proven to be absurd and out of line so that even the most uneducated among us can understand, we can start winning hearts and minds.

[PapaJu]

It's one thing when Tim McVeigh blows up something (it's an isolated, disorganized act by a sole individual), but it is quite another for organizations to go on a multi-decade campaign (Taliban, Al Qaeda, Hezbolah, Islamic Jihad, etc and they all share a common religion)

Yet their goals are different. Doesn't that throw the religion thing out the window, then?

[Guest]

I've seen more of the world than most.

LOL!

[Masshole]

Is the root problem religion or culture?

Neither. Anyone can learn and be told to hate. When you have influential individuals plague the minds of the ordinary people, you have an entire group that is nothing more than a servant of the other's ideology. The common people are mostly illiterate and only understand the Quran as it is taught to them by spiritual leaders. It is easy to manipulate the Quran to control the laypeople since it is their only promise of a better life. Couple that with an arrangement of money for their family if they act in accordance to the hierarchy's radical agenda and you have ordinary people doing despicable acts out of hope and desperation. It is not intrinsic to Islam, the Middle East, or Central Asia, it works in any area with rampant poverty and an uneducated majority.

I've seen more of the world than most.

Funny you should say that after your claim that religion is a problem. In all of your worldly travels, you should have also seen cultures bonded by religion. It is not religion, since it is mostly moral allegory and life lessons, but rather how people use religion to their advantage. It is a human issue.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Masshole

[Guest]

Anyone can learn...

I wish that were true but sadly it is not.

[Masshole]

I wish that were true but sadly it is not.

I meant that as "learn to hate." Everyone can. It requires little cognitive faculty since it stems from ignorance, misunderstanding, and lack of rationality. It is the easiest filler for an empty brain.

[Guest]

I meant that as "learn to hate." Everyone can. It requires little cognitive faculty since it stems from ignorance, misunderstanding, and lack of rationality. It is the easiest filler for an empty brain.

I know what you were saying. I would put a slight twist based on what I have seen in my travels and conversations around the world.

I believe the biggest factor leading to the kind of environment for teaching hate you are speaking to is a loss of hope.

Where hope abides one rarely sees an abundance of hate filled minds.

[Masshole]

I know what you were saying. I would put a slight twist based on what I have seen in my travels and conversations around the world.

I believe the biggest factor leading to the kind of environment for teaching hate you are speaking to is a loss of hope.

Where hope abides one rarely sees an abundance of hate filled minds.

You have likely been to many more places than I have, so you have a better general idea. I can only speak on my experience growing up in a similar environment. I do not know about hope because what can you hope for if you are blind to a better existence? Even with foreigners coming in and exhibiting a more developed lifestyle, it is not like I knew I could go to a university and become something good. That thought process did not exist. Hope for better health? Sure, but those wishes are as empty as the void you are trying to fill.

Maybe we are talking about different kinds of hope. Would you introduce hope into an area where there is none? Would that not make people more spiteful knowing they are just wishing for a better life whereas you actually have the tools to live one?

[Guest]

Would you introduce hope into an area where there is none? Would that not make people more spiteful knowing they are just wishing for a better life whereas you actually have the tools to live one?

A stable economy where everyone can participate provides hope and is the first step to crushing hatred.

[Masshole]

A stable economy where everyone can participate provides hope and is the first step to crushing hatred.

That is the end, but what of the means to the end? Fear is endemic and in the way of hope and progress. The people have to say "enough is enough, this is what we want." When Japan went from warlords to a more Western-style government, it was the people that decided it was a more viable system. We are starting to see that in some countries in the Middle East, but that leads to the second problem. Both government and business need to be absent of corruption In order for a stable economy to bring hope to the people. What outside power is going to allocate their resources for that amount of time? The United States? Do we even have the means for that anymore?

And in the Middle East and parts of Central Asia, you will have fifty percent of the population barred from participation.

Edited May 27, 2012 by Masshole

[Guest]

And in the Middle East and parts of Central Asia, you will have fifty percent of the population barred from participation.

Shack. They must start there or they are screwed.

Losing half of the smartest half is how I like to think of how they allocate and restrict resources. That means they must allocate some of their toughest problems to resources from the dumbest half or , more likely, just not even try to go after much of the tough stuff.

[CJ-6A]

A stable economy where everyone can participate provides hope and is the first step to crushing hatred.

It sounds like your starting with some presumption that people actually want "hope" or have some meaningful draw to it... wish it were the case. We tend to want to "give" them "hope"....Seeing everything as a political problem with a political solution, meanwhile pushing the delete button on over a thousand years of violent religious history. Good luck getting reason or hope into a culture that's completely shaped by "Allah's Will" or tribal differences. Our own refusal to understand this as a religious war is our own failure.

[so.it.goes]

It sounds like your starting with some presumption that people actually want "hope" or have some meaningful draw to it... wish it were the case. We tend to want to "give" them "hope"....Seeing everything as a political problem with a political solution, meanwhile pushing the delete button on over a thousand years of violent religious history. Good luck getting reason or hope into a culture that's completely shaped by "Allah's Will" or tribal differences. Our own refusal to understand this as a religious war is our own failure.

Well-said...

You absolutely cannot jettison religion from any aspect of the situation. It is not an ancillary by-product, or something to do socially on Sundays, as in our culture. Religion is literally everything to them. As someone who studied Religious Studies and spent a significant amount of time in the Middle East, I am amazed at the disparity in the intensity of devotion of Muslims as opposed to other religious groups. It is simply unmatched, for better or worse (I would submit the latter)...