Cyber-nerds doin work...

[Guest]

Awesome...

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

And the bad news...

Maybe it wasn't such a good idea to buy all those F-22 electronics from overseas....?

[TrainerModel]

Bigger than stuxnet? Holy shit

[17D_guy]

Flame® seems pretty cool, but outside the nation-state and targetting link pretty standard for malware, i.e. control domains, screenshots, keystroke grabber.

Next time we get a crafted weapon.. er... expoit (stuxnet) I'll get excited again.

Also, lot of different rumors swirling around the chips "back doors." Most researchers/pro's say it's interesting the guys who discovered it are trying to sell a tool to detect it. Additionally it appears to be a maintenance back door and not devious (insert Jurassic Park and/or Lawnmower man reference here).

Man I love this stuff.

[Guest]

Bigger than stuxnet? Holy shit

Different. One is espionage and one is a weapon.

[ThreeHoler]

https://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/09/net-us-cyber-airforce-weapons-idUSBRE93801B20130409

Necro...

But we now have 6 new cyber weapons.

[matmacwc]

Legit in my opinion.

[Gravedigger]

If you've got access to JWICS you can read more there. Even on SIPR you can find some decent info. Look on SKIWEB and read the daily cyber events summary, it's also posted in the AFSPC daily events. Skip to the parts that mention offensive cyber taskings.

Like Gen Hyten mentioned, cyber is somewhat like space in the sense that it has taken a while to get the masses to appreciate the capabilities. There are a handful of very satisfied users out there, in both domains, but the general population only sees and hears about the mundane and boring things like email, migrations, servers being down and other crap like that. They think that defensive cyber ops is a firewall and anti virus software. It doesn't help that the Air Force calls the entire career field cyber ops, when in reality the majority of 17Ds are just normal comm people. Only a handful, relatively speaking, are engaged in offensive and defensive cyber operations (the A shreds). The major problem prior to this announcement was that international players are highly invested in cyber because it is literally the easiest and quietest way to inflict the greatest damage.

It costs a lot of money and requires a ton of technology to take out a satellite, for example, particularly in GEO. But why take out a satellite when all that is required is to take out the ground segment through cyber attack. The same logic can be applied to a lot of things.

Bottom line, this is a good move. I'm a bit of an AFSPC homer, but even still this needed to happen. What will be even more beneficial is when the flying community, space, and cyber all come together and truly understand the synergies that can be realized. The Red Flags that have attempted that are just barely scratching the surface.

/rant

[17D_guy]

....They think that defensive cyber ops is a firewall and anti virus software.

FYI - there's 17D's (young&old) that still think this.

It doesn't help that the Air Force calls the entire career field cyber ops, when in reality the majority of 17Ds are just normal comm people. Only a handful, relatively speaking, are engaged in offensive and defensive cyber operations (the A shreds).

This is a very big issue among my peers, at least those of us who would kill for these opportunities. I'm a prior-E Lt and I just missed the initial 6-month school and got dumped into 17DB despite my training and prior experience. I personally know guys that did offensive stuff (comm & intel) that commissioned and didn't met the STRINGENT requirements to cross to A-shred. Initial cross flow to A-shred had very difficult to achieve requirements for schools, currency, and assignments.

Additionally in some training I'd meet grads w/ English/Earth Sciences/Other Bullsh#t degrees who got NSA assignments/A-shred who didn't care about Comm Cyber. That was rather infuriating, and still is since people are now cross-flowing into A-shred billets based on PCS requirements and not performance. I personally know a douche-non-select-Capt that's in the Net War school house now. I believe Cyber selection now has a preference for a technical degree, not a requirement.

No one fails at the school house for poor performance, at least in the classes that I've had friends through. Try again, try again, try again, pass. Can't at least conceptualize network exploitation and how to mash IP addresses? That's ok. Sounds like UPT right? Which is how it was billed to us in the community. "This is the Cyber UPT". Nerds using pilot terms, please stop.

One solution to this problem is: no Lt's through U/NWT. Capt selects and above and all do a stint in a support role as a first assignment. You can herd out the mouth breathers and send those interested/performers to the schools. It's what we're doing with the enlisted operators anyway.

Finally.. we're Ops, where's our goddamn flight suits!

Edited April 10, 2013 by 17D_guy

[10percenttruth]

Nerds using pilot terms, please stop.

Finally.. we're Ops, where's our goddamn flight suits!

Oh my...

There's bound to be a warehouse somewhere full of the old blue ones.

[Alpharatz]

There were a lot of orange ones at Wright-Pat somewhere......Ask one of the ancient mariners infesting that club, they'll probably know where.

.........."three doors down from that freezer full of aliens" "Bar-wench!! another beer for my cyber friend and I"..........

....................."You in those ugly green coverall's, downstairs with ya"......................

[Duff_Man]

FYI - there's 17D's (young&old) that still think this.

This is a very big issue among my peers, at least those of us who would kill for these opportunities. I'm a prior-E Lt and I just missed the initial 6-month school and got dumped into 17DB despite my training and prior experience. I personally know guys that did offensive stuff (comm & intel) that commissioned and didn't met the STRINGENT requirements to cross to A-shred. Initial cross flow to A-shred had very difficult to achieve requirements for schools, currency, and assignments.

Additionally in some training I'd meet grads w/ English/Earth Sciences/Other Bullsh#t degrees who got NSA assignments/A-shred who didn't care about Comm Cyber. That was rather infuriating, and still is since people are now cross-flowing into A-shred billets based on PCS requirements and not performance. I personally know a douche-non-select-Capt that's in the Net War school house now. I believe Cyber selection now has a preference for a technical degree, not a requirement.

No one fails at the school house for poor performance, at least in the classes that I've had friends through. Try again, try again, try again, pass. Can't at least conceptualize network exploitation and how to mash IP addresses? That's ok. Sounds like UPT right? Which is how it was billed to us in the community. "This is the Cyber UPT". Nerds using pilot terms, please stop.

One solution to this problem is: no Lt's through U/NWT. Capt selects and above and all do a stint in a support role as a first assignment. You can herd out the mouth breathers and send those interested/performers to the schools. It's what we're doing with the enlisted operators anyway.

Finally.. we're Ops, where's our goddamn flight suits!

Why can't we make this simple?! Civilianize cyber offensive and defensive ops with dudes fresh out of college with degrees in comp sci or computer systems engineering who pass a bunch of 'computer aptitude tests' (sorta like the TBAS for hacking) and let them go to work?

For a job like this, I want a super nerd who lives off of Code Red, Monster, and Hot Pockets, whose probably still a virgin, who wears BCGs but isn't aware of the hipster fad, and will continue to live in his mom's basement no matter how much money he makes.

I don't want some random officer with a joke degree whose constantly trying to hide what they don't know, complete PME, pass their fitness test, and play the game for OPR bullets.

The guy from Grandmas Boy would be perfect for this job:

I mean, as long as you didn't have to talk to him.

[Gravedigger]

When this all kicked off several years ago that's pretty much what it was. I was at a briefing given by a cyber Lt Col talking about their CENTCOM ops, he said "we've got Mountain Dew and pop-tarts all over the place, but these kids are doing great work." They basically grabbed the nerdiest guys they could find to get this started. Built most of their own stuff, and started exploring capabilities.

Like most things, Big Blue stepped in and tried to normalize it, and now you've got PE and theater degrees leading some of these mission areas.

The problem has not gone unnoticed. Because it is under AFSPC, I have a feeling you'll be seeing a lot of changes coming. Space now requires a technical degree, the cyber A shreds will soon too IMO. Cyber WIC will be full up in the not too distant future. Undergraduate space training and IQT has been completely overhauled; it will be much more technical, in depth, and actually challenging. Cyber is changing too.

[Duff_Man]

When this all kicked off several years ago that's pretty much what it was. I was at a briefing given by a cyber Lt Col talking about their CENTCOM ops, he said "we've got Mountain Dew and pop-tarts all over the place, but these kids are doing great work." They basically grabbed the nerdiest guys they could find to get this started. Built most of their own stuff, and started exploring capabilities.

Like most things, Big Blue stepped in and tried to normalize it, and now you've got PE and theater degrees leading some of these mission areas.

The problem has not gone unnoticed. Because it is under AFSPC, I have a feeling you'll be seeing a lot of changes coming. Space now requires a technical degree, the cyber A shreds will soon too IMO. Cyber WIC will be full up in the not too distant future. Undergraduate space training and IQT has been completely overhauled; it will be much more technical, in depth, and actually challenging. Cyber is changing too.

That Lt Col was a genius.

[Beaver]

https://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/09/net-us-cyber-airforce-weapons-idUSBRE93801B20130409

Necro...

But we now have 6 new cyber weapons.

If we call them weapons are we at war if we use them?

[Stitch]

For a job like this, I want a super nerd who lives off of Code Red, Monster, and Hot Pockets, whose probably still a virgin, who wears BCGs but isn't aware of the hipster fad, and will continue to live in his mom's basement no matter how much money he makes.

I don't want some random officer with a joke degree whose constantly trying to hide what they don't know, complete PME, pass their fitness test, and play the game for OPR bullets.

Agreed, we need these guys, I say recruit and commission nerds for specific tasks/functions. Big Blue could make em’ Limited Duty Officers like the Navy uses for A/C MX and some other specific functions. They’ll never lead anything more than a small group of fellow nerds on a specific task. Therefore there will be no need to set these individuals up for future command slots like SQ, Group or Wing. Just lock em in a basement somewhere and cut em lose to wreak havoc on the interwebs. Just stock their “bar” with a keg of Monster and a gummy bear snack dispenser.

[LockheedFix]

Agreed, we need these guys, I say recruit and commission nerds for specific tasks/functions. Big Blue could make em’ Limited Duty Officers like the Navy uses for A/C MX and some other specific functions. They’ll never lead anything more than a small group of fellow nerds on a specific task. Therefore there will be no need to set these individuals up for future command slots like SQ, Group or Wing. Just lock em in a basement somewhere and cut em lose to wreak havoc on the interwebs. Just stock their “bar” with a keg of Monster and a gummy bear snack dispenser.

And exempt them from PT tests, or just let them test under female standards.

[Snooter]

Just lock em in a basement somewhere and cut em lose to wreak havoc on the interwebs. Just stock their “bar” with a keg of Monster and a gummy bear snack dispenser.

Epic, and totally agree...

[Seriously]

If we call them weapons are we at war if we use them?

Are we at war if we fly a U-2 over North Korea?

[17D_guy]

Agreed, we need these guys, I say recruit and commission nerds for specific tasks/functions. Big Blue could make em’ Limited Duty Officers like the Navy uses for A/C MX and some other specific functions. They’ll never lead anything more than a small group of fellow nerds on a specific task. Therefore there will be no need to set these individuals up for future command slots like SQ, Group or Wing. Just lock em in a basement somewhere and cut em lose to wreak havoc on the interwebs. Just stock their “bar” with a keg of Monster and a gummy bear snack dispenser.

I really think the "terrorist cell" idea is really suited for cyber stuff from our AF Nerds. Little pockets doing their own thing with a guy who reaches back to make sure the strategy overall is good.

I think your LDO or even warrant officer idea is suited well for it. However, Big Blue already talked about needing more flexibility in gov't civilian pay to better leverage these guys.

Additionally, if they're commissioned/enlisted there's a lot of other queep that'll get handed off to them to do while they're trying to program/infiltrate a country's systems. Nothing stops my guys from innovating faster than telling them their additional duties/volunteer/EPRs need to get looked at.

[amcflyboy]

. Undergraduate space training

Really??

[Gravedigger]

Really??

Yeah?? Does the word undergraduate offend you?

[ThreeHoler]

https://www.net-security.org/secworld.php?id=14733

Looks like that old cartoon showing the laptop discovering the Airbus via Bluetooth wasn't too far off...

[FUSEPLUG]

I've begun gutting my mattress in order to store my finances. Thanks, gearpig.

[SPiF]

Anyone (17D Guy?) have a link to the cyber X-Course sign up page?

Just log in to AF Portal, and do a search for "Cyber 200". It's a different course, but the X-course is on the same page, called something like Cyber and Space assignments.