DTS -> Next Generation Travel System - Ideas?

[WeMeantWell]

I agree with most of the previous posts, and I understand that it can't be like travelocity because it has to "fit" to the JFTR. However, that doesn't mean it has to be so idiotically arranged that it forces there to be "DTS" people in the Sqd and paperwork trails to get approval to submit authorizations/vouchers. The system must be built so that the lowest common denominator can learn it in 15 minutes or less. You should be able to send a bunch of dudes right out of basic on a trip, have them come back and complete the voucher without any instruction (save, maybe, where the site is and maybe some basic starting guidance), you can easily do that with a paper voucher that worked for 50 some years...

As with most of the "universal" programs we are forced to use, I think a big problem is the central database requirement. Every time you hit save/enter/nextpage the 'trons have to travel around the universe 8 times and through 69 firewalls. Why can't the voucher be built on a local computer and uploaded, maybe start from an outlook calendar input or a squadron-specific scheduling program (CAASS?), or even a locally designed excel file... create a simple XML format file that can be uploaded to a central site, then everyone is free to create any local program they want to create that XML file, you can customize it to anything your specific squadron does. Does every trip go to DC? Does every trip contain unknown destinations/length? Etc... If there are blanks in the XML, you fill them in after you upload. It will only take a few times and you will have the perfect starting voucher every time. You could also be creating the voucher throughout your trip on your phone, pda, pager (if you still have one).

How come we always have to over complicate such a stupid simple idea. You went somewhere, you abide by what is really a simple amount of rules, you get paid for where you went...why does all that $$$ have to be spent to create something unique to the government. It would probably be cheaper and more accurate to create a program that can automatically read a travel voucher instead of DTS. Hell, submit it to industry with a $50 million prize for the best software, that's a 90% savings.

[KWings06j]

Make it fewer pages! There is way to much separation of things that don't need to be separated.

1. Let me put in all locations, arrival/departure dates, lodging costs and per-diem on a single page. Give me a check box if one location has changing costs or special requirements and then i can revert to the current PITA way of doing it.

ie: Location 1: Date Arrived: XX/XX/XX Date Departed: XX/XX/XX Daily lodging: $XX.xx Daily Per-diem: $XX.xx Special circumstances ? Y/N

Location 2: ....

2. Put mileage / non-mileage expenses on the same page. Hell, put em in the same drop-down.

3, Stop telling me arrival/departure dates aren't authorized / stop isn't authorized / etc. If I arrived on a certain date, that's the date I arrived on. Obviously it was either authorized or required. Let it be!

4. Make it look like the paper voucher. The paper voucher didn't require help filling out. The digital voucher should be even easier. If it's not, it needs to be re-done.

5. Once the new system is designed find the lowest common denominator and have them run through the entire process. If they can't do it without help go back to the drawing board. If the program freezes/ crashes/ etc fix it before publishing. And do it on an old gov't computer running vista. Don't use the brand new Win 7 (or 8 or 9 by then) system.

[BFM this]

FG,

As I see it, your limfac pitching into this fight is the JFTR. DTS was designed around that document. The reason that DTS is such a cumbersome pain in the ass is that, well, the JFTR is a ginormous, cumbersome, pain in the ass reg. In order to make DTS a more useable system you would have to literaly scrap the JTR and start from scratch there.

The JTR, and ergo DTS, are documents/systems caught up in the dual task of performing their primary function while at the same time defending against FWA; already touched on in previous posts. What was also already mentioned, is that the dream interface from the user perspective is an interactive 1352-1 format. But that old friend depended on a well versed, multi-layer QC process that started at the finance office, and went through several layers of beurocracy that you could speak to better than I. But from my perspective, I only had to be able to fill out the simple form. Whether or not it got audited 6-9 months from now was not my problem.

[albertschu]

Simple answer: Get the folks that make TurboTax, TaxCut, etc. to make the replacement. These guys can make software that makes doing taxes relatively easy (I've never heard anyone under the age of 80 say they'd prefer to do taxes on paper), they can keep up with the constantly changing tax code, they can make the software so cheaply that they can give away for free, and they can make it interface with the federal system that puts $'s into my bank account.

Heck, we could even get 2 or 3 of them to do it, and give them a cut off the backend. You choose which of the systems you want to use, that developer gets paid a percentage of your voucher (not out of your payment though). The more people use it the more they get paid.

[Beaver]

Simple answer: Get the folks that make TurboTax, TaxCut, etc. to make the replacement. These guys can make software that makes doing taxes relatively easy (I've never heard anyone under the age of 80 say they'd prefer to do taxes on paper), they can keep up with the constantly changing tax code, they can make the software so cheaply that they can give away for free, and they can make it interface with the federal system that puts $'s into my bank account.

Heck, we could even get 2 or 3 of them to do it, and give them a cut off the backend. You choose which of the systems you want to use, that developer gets paid a percentage of your voucher (not out of your payment though). The more people use it the more they get paid.

Good point. You know your software really sucks when young dudes would rather put pencil to paper.

[stract]

Can't believe I'm defending Finance but from what I understand this requirement came from on high, SecDef's office (OSD) or some such. We have to put it in our DTS here in a joint command too.

then it needs to be added to the Additional Authorizations tab or whatever as a choice (the same place you select Variations Authorized). If you can just check a fucking box about the VTC bs, that keeps the RA off your back.

[HU&W]

then it needs to be added to the Additional Authorizations tab or whatever as a choice (the same place you select Variations Authorized). If you can just check a fucking box about the VTC bs, that keeps the RA off your back.

I hate to recommend this, but if it has to be on EVERY order, just make me click another OK box when I'm completing the order to certify that it cannot be accomplished via VTC. Just like the box I click that I understand its a true, certified, prosecutable document. It sure beats clicking through three menus and copy-pasting a statement/forgetting half the time.

[Whitman]

I agree with the turbo tax similar software but also think it should interface with GDSS2 to pull itinerary information as soon as the crew is official to help automate portions of the authorization and voucher, similar to the way turbo tax pulls your tax return data from T. Rowe Price and others automatically. Btw, I'm still doing group authorizations and have had great success with them . Adding all the info and just inputting the names of my crew makes it a piece of cake...not sure why others can't do them anymore.

(null)

[Striper_WSO]

I think you need to grab a brand-new airman and watch him try to self-navigate through it in order to get this right. Whenever you have to say something, you need to write it down, because that's where DTS failed to be intuitive.

This. I have been an RA for three years. All of my new Airmen are technical savvy, "digital natives," to use a term the media enjoys. I have to sit down with them to show them how to use DTS and it is unbelievably painful. I usually apologize for how non-intuitive the system is.

Paper voucher vs. DTS? The paper voucher is normally much quicker. Even if someone is really smart on DTS, a voucher can take longer on DTS.

Just had a guy get back from a 10-stop TDY. He spent hours on DTS completing his voucher and on the phone with the DTS gurus. Multiple bugs and errors from DTS while he was trying to complete this thing. It was a mess. I could have completed it on paper in about 15 minutes.

[Butters]

3, Stop telling me arrival/departure dates aren't authorized / stop isn't authorized / etc. If I arrived on a certain date, that's the date I arrived on. Obviously it was either authorized or required. Let it be!

Especially stop telling me this when I check "Variations Authorized". When is says "dates aren't authorized" I usually write, "Oh yea, well good thing variations are authorized... FU."

Edited June 10, 2012 by Butters

[Finance_Guy]

5. WTF happened to group authorizations? That was a huge time-saver.

Group Auths are still working. There were some issue later last year but we've not heard of any recent problems. Try them out again.

[ThreeHoler]

Group Auths are still working. There were some issue later last year but we've not heard of any recent problems. Try them out again.

AMC put out a command-wide policy that limits the number of people who can make group authorizations. At least that's what the new Wg/FinanceWeenie is saying at our grand AMC base.

[Champ Kind]

AMC put out a command-wide policy that limits the number of people who can make group authorizations. At least that's what the new Wg/FinanceWeenie is saying at our grand AMC base.

AMC adding queep and making shit more difficult than it needs to be?

I don't believe you.

[Whitman]

In our sq, the RA grants AC/IPs that right. Non issue.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Whitman

[sky_king]

Divert the funds to make this undoubtedly POS system and use them to retrain the finance troops so that they actually know how to properly process a voucher.

$500,000,000 / 8 years / $50,000 civilian finance salary = 1250 civilian finance workers

Perfect civilian job. They already work 8-4, most don't need to deploy, and they can stick around to keep continuity.

[Finance_Guy]

Can't believe I'm defending Finance but from what I understand this requirement came from on high, SecDef's office (OSD) or some such. We have to put it in our DTS here in a joint command too.

It did come from Sec. Gates:

https://www.acq.osd.mil/dpap/pdi/pc/docs/3-14-2011_Track_Four_Efficiency_Initiatives_Decisions.pdf

See last page of the PDF file.

[BQZip01]

AMC adding queep and making shit more difficult than it needs to be?

I don't believe you.

I laughed

[SocialD]

It did come from Sec. Gates:

https://www.acq.osd.m...s_Decisions.pdf

See last page of the PDF file.

So if everyone has to put it on every authorization...then why is it not standard? This should be autofilled or a check box, then just have a place to give a justification. At the very least, have the statement somewhere on DTS so I can cut and paste it into my authorization. The only plus side, is the smart ass comments I enter for my justification, at least I get a laugh...

I'll second a page that looks just like the paper voucher. Fill it out and have the program pull all the info from this source. I'm guessing that this would cost the DOD another 300 mil, to make something like that happen though.

[Majestik Møøse]

1. Since every AMC aircrew member will have iPads shortly, make an app that automatically fills out the voucher as we travel. I'm aiming high on this one.

2. This is probably KC-10 specific, but sometimes we fly non-stop the long way around the world (east) from Travis to get to the desert. DTS assumes we go the other way, which causes IDL problems. Which are a pain in themselves.

[BQZip01]

In our sq, the RA grants AC/IPs that right. Non issue.

Trusting ACs to be in charge? Nah, we can't have that happening.

[Whitman]

Trusting ACs to be in charge? Nah, we can't have that happening.

Good point!

[Finance_Guy]

AMC put out a command-wide policy that limits the number of people who can make group authorizations. At least that's what the new Wg/FinanceWeenie is saying at our grand AMC base.

Its not really a policy. A recommendation by the travel assistance center (TAC) is that no more than 20-25 people be added to any one group auth (GA). Up to 20 people on a GA should cover most instances except for ORI flyaways. It is never recommended to book commercial air within DTS on group authorizations--book commercial air outside of DTS and if more than 9, then work with TMO first.

[Finance_Guy]

1. Since every AMC aircrew member will have iPads shortly, make an app that automatically fills out the voucher as we travel. I'm aiming high on this one.

I like.

2. This is probably KC-10 specific, but sometimes we fly non-stop the long way around the world (east) from Travis to get to the desert. DTS assumes we go the other way, which causes IDL problems. Which are a pain in themselves.

There may never be an automated system that could know this. The work-around is to put in a same-day stop (like Dover) even though you may not have stopped there--use the same date as your day of departure from Travis. That puts in an interim location where the system can calculate a time zone track for your direction. DTS uses time zones of your PDS and TDY points to try and figure out which direction you traveled and it is thinking you went the other way (lowest number for the difference of time zones). Or, maybe have the system ask the traveler the question, "Did you cross the IDL"?

[JarheadBoom]

Up to 20 people on a GA should cover most instances except for ORI flyaways.

And C-5 crews.

Or, maybe have the system ask the traveler the question, "Did you cross the IDL"?

That's a GREAT idea. I'm about to do a voucher for a trip that crossed the IDL 3 times; I'm not looking forward to it...

edit: add multiquote

Edited June 18, 2012 by JarheadBoom

[GearMonkey]

Here's one I just discovered. . .

Why can't we change the itinerary without overwriting the entire per diem expenses tab (i.e. the previously completed, entered, and unchanged portions of the trip)? I'm currently on a multi-destination TDY and have been updating my hotel info as I go along. I figured this would save me time and help out with the end of fiscal year goat-######. Unfortunately, I ended up arriving at my current destination two days late and when I made this minor change all my previous entries were deleted.

Also, why doesn't DTS have a functional and easy to locate feedback tool for suggestions and/or bitching? The one I found after about ten minutes of searching took me to, of course, a dead URL.

###### the ######ing auto-censor! What are we a bunch of ######ing church ladies?

Edited October 7, 2012 by GearMonkey