washout going back to UPT?

[vette32]

I just posted this in the UPT forum, so apologies for the double-post...hoping this may get some feedback.

I followed the threads here for a while and finally have a question for the masses.

Does anyone know of someone who washed out of UPT, moved on with their careers, and eventually was able to go back to UPT with either the Guard or Reserves??

Quick background: I failed out several years ago (airmanship, SA, etc) and since have moved on as a Nav in a strike platform. I now am an instructor/evaluator and coming up on the point where my commitment is over. Over the years I have gotten lots of civilian hours, multi-engine time, etc.

I am curious if it is even feasible to get back to UPT...even if a Guard/Reserve unit were to pick me up.

I have heard of people thinking it is possible, but nobody knows for certain (i.e. nobody knows anyone who actually has done it, or who/what says no you can't).

I am not expecting much from this, but well any help or SA would be beneficial on where to look and who to talk to.

Thanks

[matmacwc]

Probably not in a fighter, but thats where my experience ends. Too old to do any good. Who says you won't have problems with the same things?

[Learjetter]

Use your .mil computer and check out the ETCA entry for SUPT https://etca.randolph.af.mil. Search for the course under AETC and read the pre-reqs...IIRC it says something like "students must not have previously attended any phase of SUPT and been removed for cause". In short, I think it's a one-shot deal. But I could be very wrong...if nothing in the ETCA then ask someone in AETC/A3T.

[Guest]

You definitely came to the right pace to ask this question, obviously you had a momentary dip in SA during pilot training but have recovered.

I think this should be no problem. From what I hear you can pretty much do whatever you want in the Guards. The Guards are better because they're not like the real Air Force that has all the stupid rules that restrict people from doing whatever they want.

The Guards are excellent because since they own ther own stuff and work for the Governor they can do pretty much whatever they want. Most units will even waive the UPT requirement for people such as yourself with "strike platform" Nav and civilian pilot experIence.

I would put a package together and start applying to some Guard units. You should start by calling some fighter units nearby to find out when their next drill weekend is and then show up with some good booze and a great attitude. I think your odds look good.

Good luck!

[matmacwc]

You definitely came to the right pace to ask this question, obviously you had a momentary dip in SA during pilot training but have recovered.

I think this should be no problem. From what I hear you can pretty much do whatever you want in the Guards. The Guards are better because they're not like the real Air Force that has all the stupid rules that restrict people from doing whatever they want.

The Guards are excellent because since they own ther own stuff and work for the Governor they can do pretty much whatever they want. Most units will even waive the UPT requirement for people such as yourself with "strike platform" Nav and civilian pilot experIence.

I would put a package together and start applying to some Guard units. You should start by calling some fighter units nearby to find out when their next drill weekend is and then show up with some good booze and a great attitude. I think your odds look good.

Good luck!

Guess the asshole beer was only 1 deep tonight huh?

[Guest]

Guess the asshole beer was only 1 deep tonight huh?

One deep asshole beer? Is that supposed to be some sort of gay pride secret joke or something?

To the OP, I forgt to mention, you should also check out www.effingnav.com

[matmacwc]

Noooooo

[guim]

Individuals eliminated from a flying training course--to include the USAF Enhanced Flight Screening

Program (EFSP), the Pilot Indoctrination Program (PIP), Flight Instruction Program (FIP) and

Introductory Flying Training (IFT)--conducted by or for the Armed Forces of the United States, are

ineligible to apply with the following provisions:

l. Those eliminated for military deficiency or self-initiated elimination (SIE) reasons before,

during or after actual course completion, orwho decline UFT attendance, are

ineligible for further flying training.

2. Individuals eliminated for reasons other than those mentioned above, unless specifically

recommended for further pilot or navigator training by the eliminating (or approving)

authority, are ineligible to apply

AFI36-2205 29 OCTOBER 2004

[ol-IEWO]

Chuck DeBellevue did it in the Air Force. Probably a special case.

[Hacker]

Chuck DeBellevue did it in the Air Force. Probably a special case.

Maybe if the OP had a couple air-to-air kills to his name, he could work that too.

[herkbum]

You definitely came to the right pace to ask this question, obviously you had a momentary dip in SA during pilot training but have recovered.

I think this should be no problem. From what I hear you can pretty much do whatever you want in the Guards. The Guards are better because they're not like the real Air Force that has all the stupid rules that restrict people from doing whatever they want.

The Guards are excellent because since they own ther own stuff and work for the Governor they can do pretty much whatever they want. Most units will even waive the UPT requirement for people such as yourself with "strike platform" Nav and civilian pilot experIence.

I would put a package together and start applying to some Guard units. You should start by calling some fighter units nearby to find out when their next drill weekend is and then show up with some good booze and a great attitude. I think your odds look good.

Good luck!

Damn!

[Chida]

There was a certain infamous person about a decade ago (or more) who had washed out of UPT in active duty and then went to the guard and re-attempted and became a C-130 pilot. He ended up destroying a C-130 down in Central America somewhere (Tegucigalpa?) and then during the accident investigation all these background details came to light. I don't know if it were this incident that prompted the regulation to prohibit do-overs, but whatevs.**

**Disclaimer: This was told to me by an old simulator instructor, so I take no responsibility as to its accuracy

BL: Your only shot at military pilot training is Army, Navy, or Coast Guard. Seek that out. Inquire at airwarriors.com, maybe.

[O Face]

You definitely came to the right pace to ask this question, obviously you had a momentary dip in SA during pilot training but have recovered.

I think this should be no problem. From what I hear you can pretty much do whatever you want in the Guards. The Guards are better because they're not like the real Air Force that has all the stupid rules that restrict people from doing whatever they want.

The Guards are excellent because since they own ther own stuff and work for the Governor they can do pretty much whatever they want. Most units will even waive the UPT requirement for people such as yourself with "strike platform" Nav and civilian pilot experIence.

I would put a package together and start applying to some Guard units. You should start by calling some fighter units nearby to find out when their next drill weekend is and then show up with some good booze and a great attitude. I think your odds look good.

Good luck!

Nailed It!!!

Which Guard unit never called you back for an interview anyway?

[Gas Man]

Really!?!?!?!? No more responses to Rainman's post!?!?!?! Holy crap, I was laughing my ass off. "The Guards", Priceless. Come on, someone needs to get really pissed off right now and start a big pissing match. It has been so boring on here lately. Rainman tosses up a big softball like that and only one person takes a half-assed swing? Weak.

[M2]

UPT mulligans. Could catch on...

[jcollins]

AFIs are not US Code and you can get a ETP. The question is who is willing to go to bat for you and can they.

[Surf70]

Depends if your gaining "guards" unit CC is a senior FedEx or UPS guy and is buds with the CC at Randolph. I have heard it has been done before, and I also have been told that some cannot. You do stand a better chance since you are already rated. 50/50 depending on the unit. Makes some calls you might find a unit where their Sq CC or OG just has happened to have done it and be willing. My bet is if you just start making calls, and asking. Someone will or at least entertain the idea.

[matmacwc]

4.5 years at KDLF, never saw a washout come back through, how about no, UPT instructors already put in their time, you didn't hack it.

Really!?!?!?!? No more responses to Rainman's post!?!?!?! Holy crap, I was laughing my ass off. "The Guards", Priceless. Come on, someone needs to get really pissed off right now and start a big pissing match. It has been so boring on here lately. Rainman tosses up a big softball like that and only one person takes a half-assed swing? Weak.

I have your guards right here next to your half ass swing, but I'm no Eagle dude, so your going to have to settle with your bag of Cheetos and an orange dick. I'd curse more at Rainman but he's heard it all before.

[CJ-6A]

There was a certain infamous person about a decade ago (or more) who had washed out of UPT in active duty and then went to the guard and re-attempted and became a C-130 pilot. He ended up destroying a C-130 down in Central America somewhere (Tegucigalpa?) and then during the accident investigation all these background details came to light. I don't know if it were this incident that prompted the regulation to prohibit do-overs, but whatevs.**

**Disclaimer: This was told to me by an old simulator instructor, so I take no responsibility as to its accuracy

BL: Your only shot at military pilot training is Army, Navy, or Coast Guard. Seek that out. Inquire at airwarriors.com, maybe.

He single handedly destroyed a C-130? Hmmm

[skibum]

He single handedly destroyed a C-130? Hmmm

Yeah, that's right -- except you forgot to snicker about the fact he killed two really good dudes and then blamed the mission CC because the guy should have known he sucked.

[scoobs]

A guy on airwarriors washed out due to family reasons, not sure what that means, and he went back and became a nav.

[Danger41]

Individuals eliminated from a flying training course--to include the USAF Enhanced Flight Screening

Program (EFSP), the Pilot Indoctrination Program (PIP), Flight Instruction Program (FIP) and

Introductory Flying Training (IFT)--conducted by or for the Armed Forces of the United States, are

ineligible to apply with the following provisions:

l. Those eliminated for military deficiency or self-initiated elimination (SIE) reasons before,

during or after actual course completion, orwho decline UFT attendance, are

ineligible for further flying training.

2. Individuals eliminated for reasons other than those mentioned above, unless specifically

recommended for further pilot or navigator training by the eliminating (or approving)

authority, are ineligible to apply

AFI36-2205 29 OCTOBER 2004

1. I read that as officership type stuff. Not flying or SA related deficiencies. UPT guys?

2. I read that as if you can get someone to pull some strings for you and specifically mention you, you could get it signed off.

Good luck to you

[C17Driver]

A guy on airwarriors washed out due to family reasons, not sure what that means, and he went back and became a nav.

Scoobs, if the guy washed out of UPT and then ended up going to Nav training, that's normal. Guys that wash out of UPT are normally eligible to compete for Nav training unless their academic scores sucked. Again, reference 36-2205v4.

Edited August 25, 2012 by C17Driver

[badger23]

Thread Revival,

I recently washed out of T38s. Like most of you pilots out there, the dream is to be a pilot and I'm not ready to give up the fight yet. Now the hope is for the possibility to go back to finish UPT via Helos or Heavies in the Guard/Reserves. Along the same lines of the original question; Has anyone seen this happen?

Previously the AFI 36-2205 did not specify the possibility for waivers on this matter. However the new AFI36-2105 which supersedes 2205 and was updated in 2018 has specific wording on the request  for a ETP waiver for section 3.2.12 which is where it states the ineligibility factor that would apply to me.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated and thanks in advance. 

[gear3green]

11 hours ago, badger23 said:

Thread Revival,

I recently washed out of T38s. Like most of you pilots out there, the dream is to be a pilot and I'm not ready to give up the fight yet. Now the hope is for the possibility to go back to finish UPT via Helos or Heavies in the Guard/Reserves. Along the same lines of the original question; Has anyone seen this happen?

Previously the AFI 36-2205 did not specify the possibility for waivers on this matter. However the new AFI36-2105 which supersedes 2205 and was updated in 2018 has specific wording on the request  for a ETP waiver for section 3.2.12 which is where it states the ineligibility factor that would apply to me.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated and thanks in advance. 

You washed out of 38s and they didn’t send you to toners?