Help with a Divorce

[sqwatch]

Talk. Talk with friends, counselors, mentors, whomever... just don't let depression get ahold of you. If you have guns in the house, ask a friend to hold them for you for awhile. The stress of going through the break up will cause you to not sleep very well and could affect your appetite. Those two things can mess with your head and put you in a dark place you wouldn't ordinarily go to. 

 

Don't jump into a new relationship right away. You will need time to grieve and heal. 

 

As much as I despise them, go through a lawyer. They'll think of things to cover in the divorce agreement you'd never think of covering.... all of it to CYA. She's not entitled to any of your retirement (must be married a minimum of 10 years during your service) so don't let her go down that road. Everything else should be split 50/50- assets AND debts.

Wrong. She is entitled to the community property accumulated while married- ie your points toward an active duty retirement. Half of the three years worth of points. Be glad she dropped papers now and not at the ten year and 5 day mark. Long story.

 

There is a very recent USSC case that favors the disabled veteran, detracting from the separated spouse’s portion- but only if you’re disabled.

 

The only way out of not owing her a portion (albeit a small portion in your case) if you’re pension is to buy her out and include in the settlement that she has forfeited her portion of that community property in leu of a buyout.

 

Our walk away from a military retirement at the 19 year, 364 day mark- seen that done. 10/10 spite points.

 

Very sorry to hear dude. Take vertigo’s advice. The best thing to do is talk. Talk to your friends, family and loved ones. It gets better. I promise.

[YoungnDumb]

Thanks for the words/advice.  Still in shock but got good people around me.

Ex is wanting to avoid a long legal battle and is hoping to solve everything on our own or through a mediator.  Most of everything she's asked for in the divorce is reasonable.  When it comes it issues like alimony (she only worked part time) and retirement what are my best options?  I saw about buying out her portion of my retirement, what about my TSP as well?  I've done some research and it seems like she's entitled to a portion, but is there anyway to avoid that?  Maybe get her to forfeit her rights on that?  Or is that a long shot in the dark?

Also, concerning an attempt to push B-course back.  Is that something I should attempt to do at home station before I PCS or deal with that after I get to Holloman?  Thanks again for all the help.

[Danger41]

13 minutes ago, YoungnDumb said:

 

Also, concerning an attempt to push B-course back.  Is that something I should attempt to do at home station before I PCS or deal with that after I get to Holloman?  Thanks again for all the help.

Lead turn it as much as possible. If you have a POC out there (Flight CC ideally), reach out ASAP. Ideal situation is they push you back a few classes and move up other guys and there’s zero drama.

[ColoradoAviator]

57 minutes ago, YoungnDumb said:

Also, concerning an attempt to push B-course back.  Is that something I should attempt to do at home station before I PCS or deal with that after I get to Holloman?  Thanks again for all the help.

Contact your grad flight commander ASAP so they can work it with AFPC.  You are NOT the first person that needs to move a formal training date due to life issues! Do not hesitate or feel bad asking for help from the chain on this one!  If you get push back just keep trucking up the chain to the ADO, DO, CC, etc. in the STURON/OSS (depending on where you are).  

[sqwatch]

Thanks for the words/advice.  Still in shock but got good people around me.

Ex is wanting to avoid a long legal battle and is hoping to solve everything on our own or through a mediator.  Most of everything she's asked for in the divorce is reasonable.  When it comes it issues like alimony (she only worked part time) and retirement what are my best options?  I saw about buying out her portion of my retirement, what about my TSP as well?  I've done some research and it seems like she's entitled to a portion, but is there anyway to avoid that?  Maybe get her to forfeit her rights on that?  Or is that a long shot in the dark?

Also, concerning an attempt to push B-course back.  Is that something I should attempt to do at home station before I PCS or deal with that after I get to Holloman?  Thanks again for all the help.

I’m no lawyer, but I’ve paid one a lot of money. With that, she is entitled to half of what you put in your tsp while you were married, unless you were lucky/smart enough to have a prenuptial (I wasn’t). As for her retirement, you were only married three years dude. She doesn’t get a pension for a three year fling (but in my state she is entitled to 3/40 of your twenty year retirement if she really wants it). I’ve known strippers for longer than that.

 

Alimony or spousal maintenance (SM), is wildly different depending on the state in which you are getting divorced. Some states (mine) are very conservative with awarding SM if your ex can or has worked, and with such a short marriage it doesn’t matter who much she worked, it matters if she has a skill set where she can support herself. If not, you’re on the hook to pay her to get on her feet. Again, state dependent, SM is for rehabilitation into the single, self supporting world. I would consult an attorney, it may save you thousands. Find an attorney who is AV rated and ETHICAL.

 

Regarding legal battles, if you can’t agree to a settlement, attorney fees are a BITCH. If it goes to trial, plan on ~$60k. Do your best to avoid that. I sometimes day dream about the cars, houses, vacations and college tuition that I gave to my lawyer, though she was worth it in the long run when dealing with someone who is unreasonable.

[Vertigo]

On 2/11/2018 at 7:57 AM, YoungnDumb said:

Thanks for the words/advice.  Still in shock but got good people around me.

Ex is wanting to avoid a long legal battle and is hoping to solve everything on our own or through a mediator.  Most of everything she's asked for in the divorce is reasonable.  When it comes it issues like alimony (she only worked part time) and retirement what are my best options?  I saw about buying out her portion of my retirement, what about my TSP as well?  I've done some research and it seems like she's entitled to a portion, but is there anyway to avoid that?  Maybe get her to forfeit her rights on that?  Or is that a long shot in the dark?

Also, concerning an attempt to push B-course back.  Is that something I should attempt to do at home station before I PCS or deal with that after I get to Holloman?  Thanks again for all the help.

In my case, I took a larger percentage of our debt in order for her to not take a portion of my TSP. 

Is she seeking alimony? If she wants a clean break with long drawn out court battle, her best bet is to forego alimony. Unless she gave up going to college or passed on a high level career for your career, IMO she shouldn't be asking for it. It was 3 years... is her ability to obtain a career severely diminished? Doubtful.

 

On 2/10/2018 at 11:42 PM, sqwatch said:

Wrong. She is entitled to the community property accumulated while married- ie your points toward an active duty retirement. Half of the three years worth of points. Be glad she dropped papers now and not at the ten year and 5 day mark. Long story.

 

Yeah I think I jumped the gun a bit on that. So IF she wanted to fight it she could be eligible for 7.5% of your retired pay. 

[Azimuth]

I’m 2-0 in divorces. It’s them, not me...of course.  Follow these steps:

• Make sure she doesn’t have any access to any of your money.  
• Don’t trust anything she says.
• Get a lawyer with regard to family law (www.avvo.com).  Your local JAG can give you free legal advice and/or referrals to some civilians.
• Don’t say crazy shit on social media.  If she says crazy shit on social media, make copies of it.
• Hit the gym.
• Don’t force people to “pick sides.”  If you want to talk about it, talk about it, but you’ll much better off not bad mouthing her to mutual friends.

We didn’t have kids, which makes it 169% easier.  If you gave her the Post 9/11 G.I. Bill, you can revoke it back to you.  Good luck, it’s starting over, but it’s nice.  

[YoungnDumb]

Thanks for the inputs and advice everyone, it really has been helping (that and extended gym time).  The wife (former I guess now) has a Masters degree in GIS and previously worked for a satellite imaging company, so I like to think she has earning potential.

So far it seems like she wants to go the route of "you pick up a bit more of the debt and I don't touch retirement/TSP, etc" + a year of spousal maintenance.  Which seems reasonable given the amounts she's asked for.  This is a stupid question I know, but if we agree to all those amounts and asset division the courts will consider that "good enough" and not force us to change something right?

Again i appreciate all the input and advice, this $hit sucks.

[sqwatch]

Thanks for the inputs and advice everyone, it really has been helping (that and extended gym time).  The wife (former I guess now) has a Masters degree in GIS and previously worked for a satellite imaging company, so I like to think she has earning potential.
So far it seems like she wants to go the route of "you pick up a bit more of the debt and I don't touch retirement/TSP, etc" + a year of spousal maintenance.  Which seems reasonable given the amounts she's asked for.  This is a stupid question I know, but if we agree to all those amounts and asset division the courts will consider that "good enough" and not force us to change something right?
Again i appreciate all the input and advice, this $hit sucks.

Once you make an agreement there ain’t no going back, so long as it is covered in the agreement. If something is omitted, who knows.

[Azimuth]

Have all agreements reviewed by a lawyer...

[ViperStud]

On 2/12/2018 at 1:25 PM, Azimuth said:

Have all agreements reviewed by a lawyer...

This. DO NOT fall into the trap of thinking everyone is happy and everything will be all puppies and ice cream, even if you agree on terms. With my ex, we agreed on it all - both worked, left each others' pensions alone, split assets and walked away. 

That being said, the few grand I spent on a lawyer was one of the best investments I've ever made. Making sure I's are dotted and T's crossed is essential, and a good lawyer is worth his/her weight in gold. They think of assets, liabilities and contingencies you'd never think of.  Find one who is ethical, experienced and a bit of a dick. You won't regret it. 

[Gazmo]

First off; I feel for ya. Find a lawyer who knows his/her shit about military divorces. You haven't been married too long so it's not that big of a deal, but it helps to know the in's and out's of a military divorce. Keep it mind, if you don't pay into survivors benefits, if she is entitled to a piece of your AD retirement (if you ever get one), she won't get shit if you die the day you start collecting.

Also, feel very lucky she is being cooperative and that you don't have kids to have to drag through this. Women tend to get exponentially crazier with age and number of children. Children are $ makers for them and *some* of them will do anything to make sure they collect as much of it they can. Setting you up for a *domestic* and calling the cops on your ass, for an example. This is just something I've heard.... of course.

[di1630]

This is all interesting. Could any of you guys seen this coming and lead turned hiding assets/giving money to family etc or are there safeguards in place? How about getting a VA disability vs pension?

I dated a chick who’s parents were getting divorced and the dad ended up in a small basement studio while the wife kept the new house and moved her 30 yr old boyfriend in.

Ever since I saw that I wondered if there could be strategy involved for the working dude to even the field.

[BFM this]

43 minutes ago, di1630 said:

This is all interesting. Could any of you guys seen this coming and lead turned hiding assets/giving money to family etc or are there safeguards in place? How about getting a VA disability vs pension?

I dated a chick who’s parents were getting divorced and the dad ended up in a small basement studio while the wife kept the new house and moved her 30 yr old boyfriend in.

Ever since I saw that I wondered if there could be strategy involved for the working dude to even the field.

1) Prenup

2) Have your wealth established and protected before the marriage.

3) Prenup

4) Prepare to spend a small fortune defending yourself in court despite 1-3.  If you have the poor taste to enter family court with the wrong plumbing/DNA, expect to pay the price.

Don't stick your dick in crazy.  If it F, F, or F's, its cheaper to rent.  40 year old, experienced you is a far better judge of character than 25 year old, inexperienced you; getting married in your 20's is a sucker bet.  Rev Lawrence Shannon speaks the truth, and it's an ugly truth.

[matmacwc]

1 hour ago, di1630 said:

 How about getting a VA disability vs pension?
 

If you're hurt enough you get both, I've read that disability payments are not something that can be given away or split.

Edited February 14, 2018 by matmacwc

[sqwatch]

This is all interesting. Could any of you guys seen this coming and lead turned hiding assets/giving money to family etc or are there safeguards in place? How about getting a VA disability vs pension?

I dated a chick who’s parents were getting divorced and the dad ended up in a small basement studio while the wife kept the new house and moved her 30 yr old boyfriend in.

Ever since I saw that I wondered if there could be strategy involved for the working dude to even the field.

It’s called a prenuptial. And let’s all divulge how to hide money on a public Internet forum.

[sqwatch]

If you're hurt enough you get both, I've read that disability payments are not something that can be given away or split.

Reference USSC Howell vs Howell.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/16pdf/15-1031_hejm.pdf

[Gazmo]

It’s called a prenuptial. And let’s all divulge how to hide money on a public Internet forum.

 

 

If the case goes to "Discovery" and you are hiding shit, your once-lovey could hire a forensic accountant and unless you've been making random, small cash ATM withdrawls every week for a few decades, they will find where it is going or at the very least, where it came from.

 

It ain't easy to hide a money trail.

[matmacwc]

1 hour ago, sqwatch said:

 

Reference USSC Howell vs Howell.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/16pdf/15-1031_hejm.pdf
 

 

^ I'd trust him, he's pre-med.

[sqwatch]

 
If the case goes to "Discovery" and you are hiding shit, your once-lovey could hire a forensic accountant and unless you've been making random, small cash ATM withdrawls every week for a few decades, they will find where it is going or at the very least, where it came from.
 
It ain't easy to hide a money trail.

All cases go to discovery. What one forensic accountant says is not what another says. Ask me how I know.

[Lord Ratner]

All cases go to discovery. What one forensic accountant says is not what another says. Ask me how I know.

How do you know?

[matmacwc]

22 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

2 hours ago, sqwatch said:

All cases go to discovery. What one forensic accountant says is not what another says. Ask me how I know.

How do you know?

This has potential.

[LJDRVR]

You can't hide shit. The risk reward equation is untenable. You'll get caught. The judge will spank you badly.

Be as reasonable and compromising as possible. If you can work through the details without the need to be right, if you can let her dump on you a little bit if that's what helps her get past things, then set aside your ego and let her. My ex and I wrote up the details of our divorce on a legal pad one afternoon at my house before the kids got off the bus. There were a couple of little things where I felt like I could of done better, but there is no amount of money in the world worth the aggravation. I know still have a friendly relationship with her and the kids have done better for it. Whatever gains I might have eked out would have been totally eaten by attorney fees. 

My kids never hearing anything bad about their mother come out of my lips? Priceless.

Money? You'll make more.

[M2]

On 2/9/2018 at 8:31 AM, ClearedHot said:

I flew with a dude who separated at 19 years so his wife wouldn't get half of his retirement.  He joined the reserves and was still flying there last I heard. 

Best of luck.

I remember an enlisted guy in our wing who simply separated after his 20 was up, he didn't formally retire so his ex wouldn't get half.  Drastic, but I am sure he had his reasons...

[ViperStud]

On 2/17/2018 at 7:28 AM, M2 said:

I remember an enlisted guy in our wing who simply separated after his 20 was up, he didn't formally retire so his ex wouldn't get half.  Drastic, but I am sure he had his reasons...

Dude in my unit got divorced many years ago and signed away rights to half of his “AD military retirement” in the process. Immediately after the divorce went final, he separated and joined the ANG. He retired as a technician with something like 7298/7300 pts. Ex-box is getting zero.

Well played.