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C-17 Pilot Charged in Training Jump Death

Fifty-six & Two

By Fifty-six & Two
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Day Man
Day Man

Not guilty all counts.

AnimalMother
AnimalMother

RAB, as an outsider, I think you are mistakenly taking offense to the local vernacular. "Dude" is NOT a term of disrespect and, I can assure you that no one here means any disrespect to your kin, qui

Fud
Fud

Separating in Lieu of Court Martial is not considered a felony conviction, but it is basically the same discharge rate considering it is a dismissal. If Jared wants to call me, I'll be up for a few mo

Fud Flight Lead

Fud

Posted
Posted
They're still present, but another mod hid them from view. They apparently thought witnesses posting here during a court martial could potentially be a problem. Seems reasonable.

Gearpig, I'm glad the mods took these down as it seemed there was some awareness we were not privy to. Day Man (or anyone), let Jared know he's got not only his bros in his corner, but he's got online sympathizers as well.

Mods, is there a way to start a legal thread? I'm hoping it mostly deals with mundane issues like wills/testaments, and questions about leases/mortgages. However, I would love to see a "Rights Advisement" pinned at the top of the list, and issues dealing with Courts Martial.

Jared, stay strong brother. I saw the ETC was 14 Dec 2012 for a verdict. I'll be on a flight tomorrow but I am anxiously awaiting the results.

C-21.Pilot Flight Lead

C-21.Pilot

Posted
Posted

Being airdrop qualified sounds really appealing.

The absolute MOST rewarding mission(s) I've ever been part of. You wouldn't say the same thing on friendly fire, would you?

Day Man Gray Beard

Day Man

Posted
Posted (edited)

Day Man, How did it go today? Does it look like they are going to wrap it up tomorrow?

Still think Jared has a good case, but I'm biased. I assume they will wrap up tomorrow.

Day Man (or anyone), let Jared know he's got not only his bros in his corner, but he's got online sympathizers as well.

I had never met Jared before Tuesday morning, when I shook his hand, and said "we're rooting for you."

Mods, is there a way to start a legal thread? I'm hoping it mostly deals with mundane issues like wills/testaments, and questions about leases/mortgages. However, I would love to see a "Rights Advisement" pinned at the top of the list, and issues dealing with Courts Martial.

No need for a thread...if questioned, don't say shit without a lawyer, ever. Even if you are 110% innocent.

Edited by day man
  • Upvote 1
Napoleon_Tanerite Gray Beard

Napoleon_Tanerite

Posted
Posted

RAB-- I echo everyone else's condolences for your loss. I have no doubt that every single person on this forum views Sgt Campion's death as a tragedy; however, that does not mean that a crime was committed. I don't know Capt. Foley, but I can guarantee you that he wanted the drop to go without a single injury, let alone someone losing their lives.

Unfortunately the business we are in (both the aircrew guys and the ground types) carries a certain level of inherent risk. We assume that risk every time we close the door/canopy on the jet, every time we pack our gear, and every time we execute our tasked mission. It is a sad reality that accidents occasionally happen.

Accidents do not equate to crimes.

If that were the case, every person who commits fratricide would face criminal prosecution. Sgt Campion's death was a tragedy, but not a crime. Capt Foley will have to live with the fact that one of the people he was responsible for did not get to go home. This does not mean that Capt Foley acted with malice or in any other way that could be considered criminal. This sounds like a clear cut case of a training accident.

RTB Flight Lead

RTB

Posted
Posted

That's awesome. Wonder how he's feeling about the system that sent him to trial in the first place...

M2 Gray Beard

M2

Posted
Posted
Gearpig, I'm glad the mods took these down as it seemed there was some awareness we were not privy to.

SFGuy's post has been re-approved given Axle's acquital. I PM'd him about why it was temporarily unapproved and he understood.

Mods, is there a way to start a legal thread? I'm hoping it mostly deals with mundane issues like wills/testaments, and questions about leases/mortgages. However, I would love to see a "Rights Advisement" pinned at the top of the list, and issues dealing with Courts Martial.

Sorry, but no. While it is OK for individuals to give advice on here; anyone needing true legal representation should contact a lawyer and not depend solely on what is recommended to them on an Internet forum (even this one).

If you want to know more about the military legal system, I suggest reading The Military Commander and the Law. It contains everything most military personnel need to know about the UCMJ and military proceedings. Beyond that, you need to talk to a JAG/ADC/etc.

Cheers! M2

  • Upvote 3
TacAirCoug Flight Lead

TacAirCoug

Posted
Posted

What's sad is things like this are going to start affecting people's decision making downrange. All this fiasco is going to do, regardless of the outcome, is make people even more spring loaded to call a "no-drop" whether in training or in the combat zone. Maybe that's OK most of the time, but there will come a time when it could have a negative impact on the mission when it didn't have to come to that. We're in the business of war and people will get hurt, there's no way around that. How far will the risk-averse pendulum swing?

  • Upvote 2
AnimalMother Flight Lead

AnimalMother

Posted
Posted

Everyone who is personnel airdrop qualified should be asking themselves that question.

"No Drop."

We should all be asking ourselves this question.

I am truly concerned about the precedent that this may set for us in the future.

SFGuy SNAP

SFGuy

Posted
Posted

Congratulations Jared!

ThreeHoler Gray Beard

ThreeHoler

Posted
Posted (edited)

We should all be asking ourselves this question.

I am truly concerned about the precedent that this may set for us in the future.

A recent OG/CC call on the East coast supposedly included this gem: "If you screw up expect UCMJ actions (LOwhatever, Art 15, CM) in addition to the Q-3."

Not an exact quote...but the tone was clear.

Edit: clarity.

Edited by ThreeHoler
FUSEPLUG Gray Beard

FUSEPLUG

Posted
Posted (edited)

What's sad is things like this are going to start affecting people's decision making downrange.

Sure as shit it will.

Despite the loss of life, thankfully it ended well for those just trying to do the right thing. The after-effects this will have on our airdrop community are unfortunate. Our TTP's will suffer because of this series of unfortunate events.

Edited by FUSEPLUG

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