Butters Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 (edited) Tap-Rack-Bang is for M9's But it's really the same deal Wrong. Tap Rack Bang is now the AF standard for all magazine fed automatic weapons. Guess you have not shot in a while. And it is not the same thing. Edited July 24, 2012 by Butters
spaceman Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 Wrong. Tap Rack Bang is now the AF standard for all magazine fed automatic weapons. Guess you have not shot in a while. Well that's how it is in the Army. I was a small arms marksmanship instructor and we taught SPORTS for M16/M4 and TRB for M9. I always wondered why though because like I said they accomplish the same thing. But you're right, I haven't shot since I got out of the Army two weeks ago so maybe everything has changed. 2
Techsan Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 Wrong. Tap Rack Bang is now the AF standard for all magazine fed automatic weapons. Guess you have not shot in a while. And it is not the same thing. I thought it was shake, take, salute. I'm so confused. 5
Guest Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 I thought it was shake, take, salute. I'm so confused. "Three green, no red, no amber...fuck it, I'm outta here."
disgruntledemployee Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 For one, he hasn't played the insanity card yet; that's just media speculation at this point. To which I said I'm tired of the newsies speculating over this point all day long. But hey, speculation is what they love to do. I hear that they even interview guest speculators to speculate on what the anchor just speculated on. Secondly, McVeigh wanted to use a "necessary defense" at his trial, alleging that he was in "imminent danger" from the government. his lawyers refused. He still went the route that the US Governments actions at Waco (Branch Davidians) were illegal therefore the bombing of the Murrah building in Oklahoma city was "a justifiable response." We all know how that worked out for him. So, how can you claim that there is no way that insanity can play into this Holmes' actions in Aurora? One could easily argue that a sane person would never do such a thing, so I see it as being totally plausible for that very reason. You need to explain your comment that anyone that disagrees with that needs to "recage their idea of sanity" as I don't get your point. You're saying that a person who walks into a crowded movie theater and open fire on hundreds of innocent people is sane because forethought and planning where involved? That's a pretty warped sense of sanity in my opinion! My comparison to McVeigh was that he killed a whole lot of people, however justified. He was not insane. Alton Coleman was a serial murder, not insane. This asshole killed a bunch of people, so to make the leap that he's insane because a sane person would never ever do such a thing, is BS. If that were true, anyone that murders is insane. Lastly, my final point is unchanged. Put the dog down. Out
SocialD Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 "Three green, no red, no amber...fuck it, I'm outta here." Nice. I wonder how many on this board, have no idea what that means...
Learjetter Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 "Idle, neutral, stick aft and hold...wait one full turn...full down and full opposite rudder and recover from resulting dive" "stick, rudder, rudder...stick, rudder, rudder" "two lights, two tights, two showed and two stowed...let's go!"
M2 Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 More food for thought for those who want to actually learn something from this horrible incident... DHS Active Shooter Awareness Virtual Roundtable I've also gotten this via email...take it for what its worth... As I continue to read about the terrible tragedy in Aurora, Colorado, I can’t help but think there’s some lessons from my time as a Navy SEAL that I can pass on to the average citizen. I want to make sure that the victims of the Aurora do not suffer or die in vain. As a country, we need to learn from this tragedy, raise awareness, and save lives in the future. So here goes… Don’t Make Yourself an Easy Target When at sporting events, concerts, and the movies, choose seats that give you a tactical advantage always. What do I mean? Choose seats that allow good and east vantage points and a hasty exit point. Always stack the odds in your favor. It’s the reason I still combat park (back in to a space) and sit with my back to the wall when I’m eating. Active Shooter Scenario Advice Take cover and not concealment. Concealment hides, cover hides AND protects. It’s the difference between hiding behind a movie seat or a concrete wall. Don’t lie there with your eyes closed and get shot. Think and move. In these situations you have to take charge and get in the mindset of self-rescue. You cannot wait for first-responders – it takes too long. A good decision executed quickly is better than a great one never executed. Violence of action, as we call it in the Spec Ops community, will often change the odds in your favor. For close quarter combat drills we’d draw a gun with someone over 20 feet away running at us. In most cases you can be on someone before they can draw and take a shot. I’m not advocating running straight at someone but if you have the tactical advantage (jam, re-loading, distraction or the shooter isn’t paying attention) then take the shooter down or get the hell out of there. Remember that a moving target is extremely hard to hit, even for the well-trained shooter. Deal with the situation with your eyes wide open. In Aurora, the shooter was severely weighted down with armor and his helmet would have also limited his vision. You can use all this to your advantage. Flashlight anyone? I have one for daily carry and take it everywhere with me. It’s become another extension of me and has diffused at least two potentially violent confrontations in a non-lethal way. I recommend the Surefire P2X Fury Dual Output LED. How to use it in this situation? I would have pulled my high lumens pocket flashlight and blinded this guy. The high powered beam would have taken away his vision for 3-4 seconds, which is an eternity and enough time to flight or fight. There’s also no shame in surviving and getting you and your loved ones out of harm – especially little ones. Be a hero to your kids and family for surviving, nobody can expect more of you than that. Like we say in Survival Escape Evasion Resistance (SERE) school, “Survive with Honor.” Concealed Carry If you’re lucky enough to live in a state like Texas that not only allows concealed carry, but supports the use of deadly force, then train to use it. Think seriously about whether it’s worth a Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) permit in states where you’re likely to get screwed by a jury if you use it. Example: I can get a CCW in CA but I’m likely screwed if I shoot somebody. The mostly liberal (I’m a registered independent for the record) jury will be sure to have my ass and it’s why I own a dog that’s trained to bite and protect (another good option). Nothing makes me happier then visualizing PETA pitted against other wild-eyed liberals. Bottom line is that if you own a gun and have it as daily carry, you’d better rehearse your use scenarios both physically and mentally, and the same with the gun in the home. Mental practice is extremely valuable after you’ve mastered the basics. FYI, shooting paper at the local range will not prepare you for a defensive shooting situation. Rehearsing defensive scenarios is the only thing that will prepare you. For most of you, the best bet is to buy a good tactical flashlight, there are plenty on the market. Specs: At least 200+ lumens, waterproof, LED, and a 3volt lithium battery. Use and carry your light with you at all times. It’s the best non-lethal and practical option available, in my opinion. You can take it anywhere – including on an airplane – and if it’s a high lumen model it will blind people in broad daylight. I can’t recommend this purchase enough. Learn From an Expert There are plenty of former Military and Law Enforcement that have great self-defense skills. Just vet your instructor carefully, ask for references and proof of service. While there are many solid instructors out there, there are also a plethora of wannabe Rex-Kwon-Do types who are self-proclaimed experts and worse – lie about their service. Alter Your Lifestyle, and it May Save Your Life Avoid opening night and large crowds (e.g. go to Disney World during off-peak) that make easy targets. FYI, most domestic and foreign terrorists want the biggest bang for their buck. They want Yankee stadium sold out and not Padre stadium at 60% capacity. It sucks to live this way sometimes but ask the survivors from Colorado if it’s worth a minor lifestyle change. I say it is, and it’s the main reason I’m watching the Olympics on TV and not attending this year. London is too much of a risk for a variety of reasons that I will not go into on this post. Don’t Be a Victim Rehearse emergency scenarios before there’s an emergency, the time to practice is NOT when it’s happening. The world is a dangerous place these days. Be prepared. Read more: Lessons Learned From Aurora Colorado | SOFREP 1
jetip Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 C'mon dudes..... It's "line on line, point on point on point, FOUR green no red no amber, two good engines, squawk'in and talk'in". I knew those 1500+ tweet sorties were good for something. 1
Toro Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Looks ike Batman stopped in to visit some of the victims. Well done.
Butters Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Well that's how it is in the Army. I was a small arms marksmanship instructor and we taught SPORTS for M16/M4 and TRB for M9. I always wondered why though because like I said they accomplish the same thing. But you're right, I haven't shot since I got out of the Army two weeks ago so maybe everything has changed. Sorry, I forgot this was an Army forum composed of most Infantry and Armor officers.
JeremiahWeed Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 And then there's this guy who bolted out of the theater leaving his two kids and girlfreind behind. I'm trying hard not to judge but Sweet Feathery Jesus... https://www.huffingto..._n_1691332.html What the ____ is anyone doing at a midnight showing of a Batman movie (PG-13) with a 4-year old and an infant. This guy is an idiot on several levels.
uhhello Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Looks ike Batman stopped in to visit some of the victims. Didn't make a big deal about it either, showed up pretty much unannounced and did what he wanted to do. Bravo.
PK... Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 ... folks beginnin' to realize: https://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/07/24/colorado-gun-sales-increase-after-tragedy?hpt=hp_bn15 --- PK...
Catbox Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 ... folks beginnin' to realize: https://www.hlntv.com...edy?hpt=hp_bn15 --- PK... I'm always curious if this is direct response to the shooting or the anticipation that guns laws are going to get more restrictive after somthing like this happens.
M2 Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 I'm always curious if this is direct response to the shooting or the anticipation that guns laws are going to get more restrictive after somthing like this happens. Usually both.
Bones19 Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 I'm always curious if this is direct response to the shooting or the anticipation that guns laws are going to get more restrictive after somthing like this happens. I love how the argument on the gun lobby side is always "Better arm up, they're coming for our guns" when no one has even attempted a meaningful gun control law since 1994 assault weapons ban expired. Paranoia is alive and well... 1
Guest Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Paranoia is alive and well... Welcome. Everyone say hello to the new guy. Slow your roll a bit. Technique only.
tac airlifter Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 I love how the argument on the gun lobby side is always "Better arm up, they're coming for our guns" when no one has even attempted a meaningful gun control law since 1994 assault weapons ban expired. Paranoia is alive and well... the 1994 law expired in 2004 (which wasn't that long ago) & the gun grabbers tried hard to make it permanent. I'm sure they'll try to disarm us again soon. Your argument is a failure.
HeloDude Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) I'm always curious if this is direct response to the shooting or the anticipation that guns laws are going to get more restrictive after somthing like this happens. Agree with M2, however, I'm very confident that we won't see any changes coming out of Congress any time in the near future concerning any 'further' restrictions on gun laws, ammo sales, etc...though our President has shown us multiple times that he doesn't believe he needs Congress in order to change/not enforce laws. Even then, he doesn't have the cojones to take on the 2nd Amendment...at least not directly, which is what does worry me at times--example highlighted by the fact that the southern border states' FFL's have to report purchases of 2 or more long guns purchased by the same person in less than 5 days of non-bolt action and greater than a .22 caliber. As for the states, liberal states like CA, NY, MA will use this tragedy to further restrict gun rights, and conservative states like ID, TX, LA and the like, will not change anything. I would further bet that the modate type states such as OH, WI, and yes, CO, will not make any changes either as polls show that Americans favor less/no additional restrictions on firearms compared to more restrictions...plus, those that do favor more regs make up more of the population in the left states where they already have strict laws and less in the moderate and conservative states. This all being said, like M2 and others on here, I'm always buying more ammo, whether I need it or not. As for firearms, my arsenal is not nearly as big as M2's...but if I see a gun I really want at a good price, then I buy it. Moral of the story: If you believe in the 2nd Amendment and choose to live in states like CA, NY, and MA by choice, then I think you should reconsider your values and/or move. Edited July 25, 2012 by HeloDude
Bones19 Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 the 1994 law expired in 2004 (which wasn't that long ago) & the gun grabbers tried hard to make it permanent. I'm sure they'll try to disarm us again soon. Your argument is a failure. Right, my argument is that the "gun grabbers" are a minority. They didn't get it out of committee in 2007-2009 with a democratically controlled House and a slight majority in the Senate. And there has been no attempt by this President to "grab" for anyone's guns. In fact, he's made more news for gun RUNNING than gun GRABBING.
M2 Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 This all being said, like M2 and others on here, I'm always buying more ammo, whether I need it or not. As for firearms, my arsenal is not nearly as big as M2's...but if I see a gun I really want at a good price, then I buy it. What? I don't own any guns; they were all lost in a terrible boating accident a few weeks ago... All my ammo as well! Cheers! M2 1
M2 Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 I love how the argument on the gun lobby side is always "Better arm up, they're coming for our guns" when no one has even attempted a meaningful gun control law since 1994 assault weapons ban expired. Paranoia is alive and well... Really? Do you not watch the news? Obama's "crew" has been pushing for more gun control for years, and now they're even more livid after this one incident. But honestly the spike in gun sales is more due to people realizing that they may be responsible for their own protection. I work with both Federal and municipal law enforcement agencies and all those that I have talked with about law-abiding citizens agreed that it is a good idea. They realize that they can't be there for everyone all the time. As the old adage goes, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. I have a good friend who is the chief of police for a town here in Texas and he admits that the police are mainly armed to protect themselves, not others. When they go after a shooter, they are stopping the threat to them not you and I. But as Dave Grossman has pointed out, the world is full of sheep, sheepdogs and wolves. I accept that the vast majority of people fall into the first category, and that the last one preys on them. Some of us fall in the middle, determined to do our best to stop that from happening. Most are like myself, prior military or law enforcement; but a few are just good old-fashion citizens who risk their lives to defend others. Not claiming I could have stopped the tragedy in Aurora, but had I been there I sure as hell would have done my best to try! Cheers! M2 1
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