C-17 Lands at Wrong Airport

[Techsan]

You are being lazy if you don't either back yourself up with the box or dialing up an ILS or whatever for the active runway...ESPECIALLY when not at home station. Hell, even @ home station I'm dialing up the ILS for a visual. Thank God though they didn't end up hurting anyone.

[HU&W]

This.

You might be surprised at how many pilots I've flown with, who when handed the controlls and asked to "set us up for a left/right base/downwind for a visual approach to runway xx" get that deer in the headlights expression. Many are simply unable to put the jet in a good position as this is something they never practice. Of course, this does not preclude backing yourself up with the ILS for SA, but I can think of many times that a visual would be safer or make more sense than flying the approach. Example: more than once, I have had more SA on the weather than ATC. It made more sense to cancel and go visual than let myself get vectored through a thunderstorm. This is a skill set that all AMC crews need to have. Just don't be complacent about it. Treat it with the same level of preparation and vigilance that you would an instrument appproach.

Are you talking about cancelling and going in VFR or getting a visual approach while IFR?

[Prozac]

Are you talking about cancelling and going in VFR or getting a visual approach while IFR?

Depends on where you are and what you want to do. Skill-sets are similar.

[pcola]

Hmph...

All this time I thought I was just good. As it turns out, I'm lazy.

I really can't tell if sarcasm is involved here...

[moosepileit]

Brief an approach, dial it up, then decide if the visual works. Always doing that might help when fatigued, muscle memory is real. Helps keep the s/a. Others covered the rest.

Wonder if the departure crew got more than a TCAS TA from the news choppa.

Visuals can save 6-9 minutes and a ton, literally, of gas. Surprised they weren't highly suggested mandatory fun by AMC, 'til yesterday...

[amcflyboy]

This.

You might be surprised at how many pilots I've flown with, who when handed the controlls and asked to "set us up for a left/right base/downwind for a visual approach to runway xx" get that deer in the headlights expression. Many are simply unable to put the jet in a good position as this is something they never practice. Of course, this does not preclude backing yourself up with the ILS for SA, but I can think of many times that a visual would be safer or make more sense than flying the approach. Example: more than once, I have had more SA on the weather than ATC. It made more sense to cancel and go visual than let myself get vectored through a thunderstorm. This is a skill set that all AMC crews need to have. Just don't be complacent about it. Treat it with the same level of preparation and vigilance that you would an instrument appproach.

Agreed....don't be a knucklehead if you're going to do one. I've just personally seen too many guys lately go "MIA" in the brain!

[Guest]

It is not uncommon to see a guy fall apart inside 15 nm from the field. It happens when bored or when letting down from a demanding mission. I was always amazed watching students at Nellis tube the recovery after leading the most complex sortie they had ever flown. Same thing when a guy would almost crash after kicking ass on a combat sortie.

As much as we all want to say, rightly, WTFO!?...the lesson learned is complacency kills and no one is immune.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Rainman A-10

[Aerdale]

This would be the Navy's equivalent of a skipper running his ship aground. A sure career-killer.

I am, however, impressed at how they got it stopped once they realized the runway was running out too soon. My hat's off to them, it looked like real skill to me. Too bad the military doesn't forgive or forget.

As Popeye would say, "How embarriskin'".

[uhhello]

This would be the Navy's equivalent of a skipper running his ship aground. A sure career-killer.

I am, however, impressed at how they got it stopped once they realized the runway was running out too soon. My hat's off to them, it looked like real skill to me. Too bad the military doesn't forgive or forget.

As Popeye would say, "How embarriskin'".

Not seeing the equivalent. Nothing was damaged. Aircraft flew within 12 hours. Obviously they ######ed up and will reap the consequences but to equate it to severely damaging something I don't think plays out. Also, not much skill involved in getting it stopped.

[SurelySerious]

This would be the Navy's equivalent of a skipper running his ship aground. A sure career-killer.

I am, however, impressed at how they got it stopped once they realized the runway was running out too soon. My hat's off to them, it looked like real skill to me. Too bad the military doesn't forgive or forget.

As Popeye would say, "How embarriskin'".

Wouldn't this be more like pulling into the wrong harbor?

[Majestik Møøse]

To answer your question, I don't play "I've got a secret." That's what causes smoking holes in the ground. This is not the time to play stump the chump. I do direct their eyes to the field before I take control, but when you're only 3000' AGL, and trying to find the runway with a handful of aircraft, this is when I have to play A/C and intervene, and If I'm flying and he/she sees the field before me, then yes I will let him/her steer me towards it, if need be. Again this is why I back all my shit up with instrument approaches and the NAV building an LZ in the SCNS, to prevent this from happening. This is a small practice of staying ahead of the aircraft. Am I perfect? No.

Yes we play a sensitive game of CRM, and I thank the previous guys for backing me up, but we're all thick skinned (at least I think we are) and need to accept instruction from time to time and stay ahead of the aircraft. Again, I've had good copilots who've kept me honest as well, and I buy them beers and distract the fat chick for the rest of the night.

Ok, I agree with all that. Especially the part about the CRM game. I'm interested to hear the CVR on this one, if it's ever released. Does it even require a safety investigation?

[motch]

Not seeing the equivalent. Nothing was damaged. Aircraft flew within 12 hours. Obviously they ######ed up and will reap the consequences but to equate it to severely damaging something I don't think plays out. Also, not much skill involved in getting it stopped.

Anyone think it's kinda weird that the plane flew out so "quickly"..?

Nothing happens quickly in AMC. They got it offloaded, possibly defueled, did all the performance numbers AND got a new crew in there so quickly?

Heard a rumor that a high ranking individual was onboard.. anyone really know who was flying, and who was in the cockpit?

I agree, it sucks for the cockpit crew. They didn't start their day off with plans of landing at a wrong field and possibly ending their career. On the other hand, have to admit, pretty impressive for the airplane.

Then again, as a C-5 FE (ex?!).. to bad they didn't have a sweaty sitting sideways to keep an eye on them~

Always

Motch

[disgruntledemployee]

I'm sure the Q3s will be memorable, but I envision that an epic 30 second ass chewing by Gen Mattis will leave scars for life.

I'd start with mission planning for this one. AP says, "Runway lights at Peter O Knight (KTPF) 5 NM NE may be easily confused with lights on Rwy 22 at MacDill (KMCF)." Warning on the approach plate (if it was even open to that page). Next, of course, is SA (runway size, shape of the airfield, relation to surrounding terrain/water, etc.). CRM, if there was any, as you all say will be the most interesting part of this one.

These guys got lucky that they were in a plane that stops well, that they touched down early, flaps were full (I assume), on speed (I assume), and didn't weigh too much (I assume). They could have easily departed the runway. This is a cheap lesson for us and I hope AMC sends out the tapes for our benefit.

Out

[nsplayr]

Heard a rumor that a high ranking individual was onboard.. anyone really know who was flying, and who was in the cockpit?

From page 1 of this thread...

"On July 20, 2012 a C-17 carrying General Mattis of the US Central Command mistakenly landed at Peter O Knight airport thinking it was MacDill AFB."

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure Gen. Mattis isn't qual'd.

Edited July 22, 2012 by nsplayr

[FUSEPLUG]

I'm sure the Q3s will be memorable, but I envision that an epic 30 second ass chewing by Gen Mattis will leave scars for life.

I have to wonder if Mattis would have even really cared. I flew him into the desert last summer and had to WX divert and wait out a sandstorm at his planned location. Of course his handlers were pinging the whole time, but he was nothing but chill. He spent the 2 hours so so wandering around the cargo compartment chewing the fat with everyone on board. We ended up getting him to where he needed to be and he came upstairs and thanked us for the hard work.

I have to imagine he chuckled a little as he got into his vehicle for the 20 minute ride back to MacDill.

[arg]

Quoted for Truth.

I'd be lying if I said I haven't been in this exact situation - here's the setup:

It's my no-shit first flight as AC. Alerted off of Bravo at one on a Saturday morning to help start AMC's Haiti earthquake relief. We're rounding all the people we can get to mission plan and stage at Pope - at least a third of them are drunk.

It's pretty much chaos around the sq trying to get everybody together and manifested.

Sister squadron commander found me, tapped his watch and said, "There are people watching this".

Weather is 300 and 1/2.

We get gone, drop everybody off at Pope, and eventually get our upload figured out ( 2 Humvees and pax) and push on to MacDill to RON and head for Haiti in the morning.

When we start the descent into MCF, it's right around 12 hours since alert.

I have buddy as my co-pilot who upgraded shortly after this trip - he has a significant amount of commercial time.

We get vectors to the ILS 22. Right as the (false) glideslope comes alive, we get asked if we have the field in sight. Since Knight is sitting right about at a 3 degree slope, I think that's the field and start the descent after we're cleared for the visual approach. Tower clears us to land because they see us on final.The eng calls the go-around at 500'A. We quickly re-orient and get on the real glideslope. As we're taxiing in - I get the infamous "phone number to approach" relay. Much to my relief...they asked what I was doing...I fessed up and they said "don't do it again" and that was it. I thought I was about to set the record for shortest time as AC....

Edit: we even read and briefed the note on the approach plate. At that time, it was a bit different and didn't specifically name Knight field.

And I bet your eng couldn't buy a beer that night could he?

[AZwildcat]

News article comments are priceless as always...

"Anyone have the number for that truck driving school..."

Standby for remediation.

[Azimuth]

Also, not much skill involved in getting it stopped.

They had 10-feet remaining. That's not skill?

[Buddy Spike]

Quoted for Truth.

I'd be lying if I said I haven't been in this exact situation - here's the setup:

It's my no-shit first flight as AC. Alerted off of Bravo at one on a Saturday morning to help start AMC's Haiti earthquake relief. We're rounding all the people we can get to mission plan and stage at Pope - at least a third of them are drunk.

It's pretty much chaos around the sq trying to get everybody together and manifested.

Sister squadron commander found me, tapped his watch and said, "There are people watching this".

Weather is 300 and 1/2.

We get gone, drop everybody off at Pope, and eventually get our upload figured out ( 2 Humvees and pax) and push on to MacDill to RON and head for Haiti in the morning.

When we start the descent into MCF, it's right around 12 hours since alert.

I have buddy as my co-pilot who upgraded shortly after this trip - he has a significant amount of commercial time.

We get vectors to the ILS 22. Right as the (false) glideslope comes alive, we get asked if we have the field in sight. Since Knight is sitting right about at a 3 degree slope, I think that's the field and start the descent after we're cleared for the visual approach. Tower clears us to land because they see us on final.The eng calls the go-around at 500'A. We quickly re-orient and get on the real glideslope. As we're taxiing in - I get the infamous "phone number to approach" relay. Much to my relief...they asked what I was doing...I fessed up and they said "don't do it again" and that was it. I thought I was about to set the record for shortest time as AC....

Edit: we even read and briefed the note on the approach plate. At that time, it was a bit different and didn't specifically name Knight field.

I've flown this approach a few times before, and IIRC, Knight sits just under the FAF for the approach.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Buddy Spike

[LockheedFix]

They had 10-feet remaining. That's not skill?

Max reverse and standing on the brakes...real tough.

[Guest]

Max reverse and standing on the brakes...real tough.

Yeah, right. LOL.

[Buddy Spike]

They had 10-feet remaining. That's not skill?

Better to be lucky than good.

[uhhello]

They had 10-feet remaining. That's not skill?

No. Its a testament to the only luck they had that day.

[StainedClass]

Non-towered airports don't issue landing clearances.

Exactly.

I wonder if KMCF tower (or any tower) cleared them to land.

Edit: Because they should have expected a clearance to land at a controlled airport, an AFB no less.

Edited July 22, 2012 by StainedClass

[ol-IEWO]

Being old school, I have to ask, wouldn't they have entered the coordinates for MacDill in the system - GPS has been very accurate for me. A crosscheck would have told them that MacDill was miles ahead.