Investment showdown -- beyond the Roth, SDP, & TSP

[DC]

Yuk yuk yuk...

..looking for software that can let me put different scenarios into it and calculate how different changes will affect the long-term. Yes, I know there are investment calculators out there, but I'm looking for one that can track the past while playing psychic mathematician on the future.

[Vetter]

www.firecalc.com

[AZwildcat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qid_WGBrQjA

[Swizzle]

Anyone think that sequestration, regarding decreased military budget/personnel cuts, will affect around-bases'-housing-market prices? As in price decreases?

[Butters]

Nevada man dies with $200 in bank, $7M in gold hidden inside home

This is how those Dave Ramsey guys who won't use credit cards and live like they're a TSgt when they're a Major usually turn out.

Samaszko also had stock accounts of more than $165,000 and another $12,000 in cash at the house.

Yea, and he never paid any credit card interest either. Good for him!

Edited September 18, 2012 by Butters

[Mitch Weaver]

Not sure anyone's figured out how to do that yet...

Armstrongeconomics.com

[Champ Kind]

Nevada man dies with $200 in bank, $7M in gold hidden inside home

This is how those Dave Ramsey guys who won't use credit cards and live like they're a TSgt when they're a Major usually turn out.

Yea, and he never paid any credit card interest either. Good for him!

Really?

[qubit]

I'd check out Lending Club. It's an awesome way to get a much better return on your money. I wrote about my experiences with it here here: Lending Club Review.

After a year and half with LC, I've had only 2 loans defaulted and received over an 8% return. I've mostly stuck with A and B rated loans and I'm starting to think that maybe getting riskier will provide more ROI. Check it out.

[matmacwc]

I have 12% on a local IRA that doesn't have to worry about defaults

[Guest]

I have 12% on a local IRA that doesn't have to worry about defaults

Name it or it doesn't exist.

[JPStryker]

For anyone in OK/N.TX check out Coppermark bank. 4% on a no fee checking account up to $25K. Need to have a direct deposit into the account and make 16 debit transactions/month to qualify for the rate. Pretty kickass return, though.

[matmacwc]

Defaults as in people that don't pay their loans. Maybe I got lucky and bought IAALX at the end of last year, it is showing 14% as a YTD right now. Sue me cause its a C fund, but its made me money.

It was a Dave Ramsey ELP (i know, he doesn't believe in C funds, but it worked out)

Edited October 9, 2012 by matmacwc

[Danny Noonin]

Maybe I got lucky and bought IAALX at the end of last year, it is showing 14% as a YTD right now. Sue me cause its a C fund, but its made me money.

I'm confused...are you bragging about having your money in a fund that's done well worse that a generic S&P500 index fund YTD? Also well worse than the S&P for 3, 5 and 10 year returns? And you are paying a load to perform that way?

And while you don't have to "worry about defaults", you do realize your choice of IRA is hardly risk-free, don't you? It lost 40% in 2008.

Am I missing something?

Exhibit A why you never take financial advice from pilots

[matmacwc]

Not bragging, called out. The return is where I like it, even with the cost.

[Danny Noonin]

Not bragging, called out. The return is where I like it, even with the cost.

Now I'm even more confused.

Are you saying you like to pay extra money to get a far lesser return on a stock fund than the S&P 500 index for your IRA?

Serious question. I feel like I cannot possibly be reading your posts correctly.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Danny Noonin

[Striper_WSO]

You can't beat the market. The market portfolio is the most efficient portfolio. Read it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Markowitz

or if you're really bored:

https://cowles.econ.yale.edu/P/cm/m16/index.htm

[Butters]

You can't beat the market. The market portfolio is the most efficient portfolio. Read it here:

https://en.wikipedia....Harry_Markowitz

or if you're really bored:

https://cowles.econ.y...m/m16/index.htm

https://youtu.be/kFBDn5PiL00

Edited October 9, 2012 by Butters

[matmacwc]

Now I'm even more confused.

Are you saying you like to pay extra money to get a far lesser return on a stock fund than the S&P 500 index for your IRA?

Serious question. I feel like I cannot possibly be reading your posts correctly.

Here's how it goes fuckers. I looked up a Dave Ramsey ELP here in my town, went to him, he recommended this particular IRA (non-roth, I VSP'd, couldn't do it) and this is what I was told they supported. I know this dude strayed a bit with the C fund (from DR), BUT it has made me money, talk to me again about 4% in your checking account, I beat it by a long shot. Keep throwing spears.....I wish I knew what the stock market would of done, I figured it would of tanked with this socialist government (yes, I went there). The bottom line is certain investments aren't for everyone, throw your spears, but I'm up over 12%, if you are better off, then start your own fucking investment business. Eat me, and good night. (Yes, I curse, but still follow DR).

And if you follow DR, you understand that you contribute up to the match (gotta love the ANG), and then to a local ELP IRA. Therefore, 5% or so in the TSP, 10% downtown. Therefore a 15k investment becomes 20k magically, automatic 100% return on TSP plus stock market gains and then another 12% plus on my IRA, beat that.

At a 100k salary, and we are exceeding that, it just makes the math easy.

Edited October 10, 2012 by matmacwc

[ThreeHoler]

I'd check out Lending Club. It's an awesome way to get a much better return on your money. I wrote about my experiences with it here here: Lending Club Review.

After a year and half with LC, I've had only 2 loans defaulted and received over an 8% return. I've mostly stuck with A and B rated loans and I'm starting to think that maybe getting riskier will provide more ROI. Check it out.

Post #2 and the 2nd plug for your shitty blog...

https://investorjunkie.com/4/lending-club-review/ is a much better review of Lending Club. It includes good-to-know information like it is only legal to invest in Lending Club in 28 states. It is interesting, but caveat emptor.

[Day Man]

talk to me again about 4% in your checking account, I beat it by a long shot.

If anyone is "investing" with a checking account, they need to be punched in the jejunum.

[Danny Noonin]

Here's how it goes fuckers. I looked up a Dave Ramsey ELP here in my town, went to him, he recommended this particular IRA (non-roth, I VSP'd, couldn't do it) and this is what I was told they supported. I know this dude strayed a bit with the C fund (from DR), BUT it has made me money,

I get that you follow Dave Ramsey and like it. If it works for you, fine. It's your money. But you might do well do think for yourself a bit once in a while. Dave Ramsey's "ELPs" are all commission based. They make money when the sell you funds with a load and high expenses. Guess where some of those fees go? Back to the Lampo Group--Dave Ramsey's company--as a referral fee. I'm sure you know this because you've looked it up yourself. It's even on his website.

Most credible non-commission based financial advisors would caution you about blindly putting money into a loaded fund, let alone an underperforming, high expense ratio C fund. There's a reason for that. I don't quite understand your need to defend this particular investment because it has "made you money". Most stock funds made better money than that last year. Your fund is consistently underperforming and you are paying extra for that privilege. It's rated only 2 out of 5 stars by Morningstar. You have a 2.2% expense ratio in that fund. That's outrageous! That's all cutting 2.2% into your account, every year. For reference, the typical actively managed stock fund has an expense ratio of about 1.5%. The average index fund expense ratio is about 0.25%. Vanguard S&P500 index fund is 0.18% So you would have to do about 2% better than the index to break even, not even counting the load. Right now, the returns in that fund are averaging about 2% less than the S&P index, so you're in reality averaging 4% down or so. That's pretty big money, especially in the long run. I'm not trying to throw a spear at you, I'm just pointing out that the facts and math are not on your side.

When I was a young 2Lt, I got roped into the USPA gig. Nice retired Lt Col pilot was the local USPA guy and sponsored my UPT class. Gave a great sales pitch about how loads don't matter in the long run and "you get what you pay for" with loaded funds...which is absolute bullshit. They put me into a fund that severely underperformed the market for years and years until I finally wised up. That was an expensive lesson for me in the long run and I'm pissed about it to this day.

talk to me again about 4% in your checking account, I beat it by a long shot.

Good for you. But your IRA is neither FDIC insured nor liquid, so you are comparing apples and oranges. I don't think he was suggesting that he uses a checking account as an IRA or as his sole investment vehicle (maybe I'm wrong). I assume you have some liquid savings somewhere? An emergency fund perhaps? 4%, if true, is an unbelievable rate...better than any savings account or even CDs I've seen for years.

I wish I knew what the stock market would of done, I figured it would of tanked with this socialist government (yes, I went there).

Then why did you put your money into IAALX? It's a stock fund.

The bottom line is certain investments aren't for everyone, throw your spears, but I'm up over 12%, if you are better off, then start your own fucking investment business.

Like I said, 12% is a not a great return this year on the scale of things...throw in your 2.2% in expenses and you're not doing very well relatively. A cheap, no-load S&P 500 index fund would be up over 16% this year. You don't need to have a PhD in financial planning to run the numbers.

If you like Dave Ramsey and trust his network, good for you. That's an expensive path, but it's yours to take. I'm not advocating any particular path--to include index funds (I don't have them), but I am advocating that young pups educate themselves a bit on investing basics. Learn about expenses, performance, diversification, etc. It all matters. If you don't know where to start, go to the library or bookstore and get an "Investing for Dummies" type book. It will explain all of this stuff at the caveman level.

My naivete cost me a lot of money when I was young--which translates to when I'm old as well. Time value of money and all.

[JPStryker]

I don't think he was suggesting that he uses a checking account as an IRA or as his sole investment vehicle (maybe I'm wrong).

You're not wrong.

[Butters]

Here's how it goes fuckers. I looked up a Dave Ramsey ELP here in my town, went to him, he recommended this particular IRA (non-roth, I VSP'd, couldn't do it) and this is what I was told they supported. I know this dude strayed a bit with the C fund (from DR), BUT it has made me money, talk to me again about 4% in your checking account, I beat it by a long shot. Keep throwing spears.....I wish I knew what the stock market would of done, I figured it would of tanked with this socialist government (yes, I went there). The bottom line is certain investments aren't for everyone, throw your spears, but I'm up over 12%, if you are better off, then start your own fucking investment business. Eat me, and good night. (Yes, I curse, but still follow DR).

And if you follow DR, you understand that you contribute up to the match (gotta love the ANG), and then to a local ELP IRA. Therefore, 5% or so in the TSP, 10% downtown. Therefore a 15k investment becomes 20k magically, automatic 100% return on TSP plus stock market gains and then another 12% plus on my IRA, beat that.

At a 100k salary, and we are exceeding that, it just makes the math easy.

Wait are you counting your matching contribution as part of the total calculation of your ROI?

If so, I take back all the bad things I said about DR. He is a smart mother fucker. Convince people to give you money and in return convince them they are making money!

Edited October 11, 2012 by Butters

[matmacwc]

IAALX is an IRA and mutual fund (Trans-America calls is a fund of funds) while I may be getting a schooling here, if I look at my net worth after 1 year of doing what DR says, I'm fairly happy. And putting in 5k into TSP and getting 5k of matching (about) doesn't suck. Benefit of being an ART.

[Bishop]

I'm a bit confused, I was previously told by someone that the mil does not offer a "Matching" retirement investment vehicle like 401k. If they do what is the % match they offer?

Also, anyone utilize sharebuilder for their investments? I just signed up for them, seems like their auto investment plan for $12 a month is a nice deal (12 stock purchases included, every 1 after is $1, plus other discounts). Before I jump into that was wondering if anyone has experience with them.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Bishop