Investment showdown -- beyond the Roth, SDP, & TSP

[MilitaryToFinance]

4 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

  Citadel continued their manipulation this morning and is working with Robinhood in a vain attempt to manipulate some of the crypto currencies  (although Bitcoin was over $37,000 when I looked a little while ago) in an effort ot offset some of the hedge losses.  I have head some of the Robinhood customers were using ethereum and such.

And Citadel hired a bunch of planes to spray chemtrails all over the country. They're probably the ones sneaking fluoride into our water too.

 

There are actual regulatory reasons why Robinhood and a number of other brokers did what they did on Thursday. And once you think about the mechanics of shorting a stock it is quite easy to understand how the shares short can be greater than the free float. But it seems people are having more fun ranting and raving about "the elites" so I won't let explanations spoil the fun.

[ClearedHot]

7 minutes ago, MilitaryToFinance said:

And Citadel hired a bunch of planes to spray chemtrails all over the country. They're probably the ones sneaking fluoride into our water too.

 

There are actual regulatory reasons why Robinhood and a number of other brokers did what they did on Thursday. And once you think about the mechanics of shorting a stock it is quite easy to understand how the shares short can be greater than the free float. But it seems people are having more fun ranting and raving about "the elites" so I won't let explanations spoil the fun.

Chemtrails...wow, ok then.

It is one thing to to claim regulatory action and restrict action on some stocks like adding positions in order to calm the storm.  That is NOT the whole story.  I have confirmed with at least five friends that Robinhood locked them out of their account for HOURS and would not let them sell as the stock lost 50% of its value.  One friend finally gained access to his account at 3:29 CST yesterday and it was too late to do anything, not that he would have timed it perfectly at the top, but if he had this little lockout cost him $90,000.  Their little statement about letting people sell their positions was a lie and not a "regulatory issue."  Of course the shares short can't be greater than the free float yet Melvin shorted at 140%...so the regulatory actions only work when it is the little guy taking advantage?  GTFOOH!  This was completely to the benefit of the hedge funds and had nothing to do with Chemtrails.

 

[SocialD]

12 hours ago, MilitaryToFinance said:

But it seems people are having more fun ranting and raving about "the elites" so I won't let explanations spoil the fun.

 

Please do.  I was hoping you'd be around to give your two cents.   I'm so checked out from news/SM I didn't know about this until this afternoon.  

Edited January 30, 2021 by SocialD

[jazzdude]

My violence is "principled", and your violence is "terrorism".
Protest should make people uncomfortable....unless those people are elected representatives of the people, in which case it is illegal.

I don't think the violence/riots we saw last year over racial issues were justified, and there seems to be a fair amount of people looting and destroying things and taking advantage of the protests. Don't think anyone really is justifying or condoning those actions.

It'd be a different discussion had the protesters/rioters/insurrectionists stayed outside and peacefully protested outside the Capitol. Sure, it'd be uncomfortable for Congress. And Capitol police have been more aggressive with peaceful protests in the past. But surging into Congress while it's in session to stop a certification vote? Yeah, that's a problem, it's no longer discomfort, but rather danger, both to then and our country. Want to play revolutionary? Better be prepared to go all in, and not just for the selfies or likes, because there are going to be very real consequences for your actions.

[FLEA]

1 hour ago, jazzdude said:

 

I don't think the violence/riots we saw last year over racial issues were justified, and there seems to be a fair amount of people looting and destroying things and taking advantage of the protests. Don't think anyone really is justifying or condoning those actions.

It'd be a different discussion had the protesters/rioters/insurrectionists stayed outside and peacefully protested outside the Capitol. Sure, it'd be uncomfortable for Congress. And Capitol police have been more aggressive with peaceful protests in the past. But surging into Congress while it's in session to stop a certification vote? Yeah, that's a problem, it's no longer discomfort, but rather danger, both to then and our country. Want to play revolutionary? Better be prepared to go all in, and not just for the selfies or likes, because there are going to be very real consequences for your actions.

 

Ok.... So you also agreed noone was condoning the violence in the capital and AOC over reacted to Ted Cruz then?

You seem to view the capital riots as more dangerous because they were an assault on our democratic institution. Thats a matter of opinion though that you use to support your view point. I can argue the race riots were more dangerous because they had larger scale and often targeted police officers who are personified symbols of the rule of law. How many small business owners do you think were "uncomfortable" when molotovs went through their storefronts?

[jazzdude]

Ok.... So you also agreed noone was condoning the violence in the capital and AOC over reacted to Ted Cruz then?
You seem to view the capital riots as more dangerous because they were an assault on our democratic institution. Thats a matter of opinion though that you use to support your view point. I can argue the race riots were more dangerous because they had larger scale and often targeted police officers who are personified symbols of the rule of law. How many small business owners do you think were "uncomfortable" when molotovs went through their storefronts?

Much of the violence associated with the race riots was opportunistic by people who wanted an excuse to be violent. AOC was in the wrong here voicing support for the violence.

Small business owners were in the crossfire, which was unfortunate. But again, much of that violence appeared to be by people who just needed an excuse.

Police were the intended target for the protests due to perceived and likely some real injustices. That was the whole point: police being biased against a particular race, and any concerns from the community being swept under the rug. Doesn't mean it should've escalated to violence, but just as some protesters escalated to violence, some jurisdictions also did just that using their police. It's still a valid shot, and still needs to be addressed at all levels of government and policing.

[WTFAF]

I thought this was an investment thread? Oh well, I'll check in next year to see what the latest political bitch session is all about. Carry on.

[jazzdude]

Well, it'll be interesting to see what, if any, laws or regulations come out of the whole gamestop short squeeze.

Seems to be a decent amount of support for the individual traders by members on both sides of the aisle: let's see if that support on Twitter actually translates to law or policy.

[disgruntledemployee]

Mostly nothing.  The billionaires (Bs) won't like the scrutiny, so they'll fund their politicians to play dumb.  The SEC won't change rules on shorting other than slapping Robinhood for halting trading for certain customers.  Plus the lawsuit against them should help stop that practice. Reddit may delete the club if the SEC says "insider or collusion", but they'll find another place.  In summary, the Bs shorting game will slow considerably, but won't go away.  They've got a target on their foreheads and the Joes are not going to let up.  Maybe next time the Bs will keep their yaps shut on their shorts. 

Why I do I keep thinking there was a dollar bet made sometime last year.  Hey Citadel, bet you a buck you can't make Gamestop go bankrupt.

To the everyday Joe investor, "Looking Good Billy Ray"

Out

[ClearedHot]

7 hours ago, WTFAF said:

I thought this was an investment thread? Oh well, I'll check in next year to see what the latest political bitch session is all about. Carry on.

You are correct and I am guilty of it as well. 

Obviously politics and policies that flow from politics have a great impact on the market and investing but we (I as well), should limit that to focused impact comments rather than political bitching...I'll do better and help others do the same.

[FDNYOldGuy]

19 hours ago, Hacker said:

Yep...and all of the failing banks and investment houses that were bailed out with taxpayer money in 2008 were also not based on anything fundamental.

Still gets back to manipulation being okay for a certain group of people, but not okay for others.

 

100% agree. It’s why I laugh when people say we have a capitalist system. We don’t. If you have the money to pay for play, you can diddle the system to work for you. Privatize the gains and socialize the losses.

That said, and it’s probably deeper than anyone wants to get here, but it’s never cut and dry. I’m a huge believer in reaping what you sow, but letting banks die in 08 was a double edged sword. The culprits of the collapse already had the ill-gotten gains in their pockets and the average folks out there relying on banking would have actually been the ones to suffer if they failed. The FDIC didn’t have the funds to insure the number of banks that failed, the credit freeze would have decimated non-bank players, and the system would have collapsed. 

Did it mostly just bail out the rich and powerful. Yup. Should they have paid with jail time and fines? Yes, they should have. But, the wealthy only go to jail if they over other wealthy people. Madoff robbed powerful people and went to jail; Dick Fuld/Angelo Mozillo/etc. just played vital parts in screwing millions of average folks out of their homes/jobs/savings...of course they got off with golden parachutes. 

In the words of Carlin, “It’s a big club and you ain’t in it.”

As for the current market diddling, sure, some hedge funds are losing money. But, a lot of it’s not THEIR money; it’s investors’ money. Sure, most are wealthy and can afford it, but I know my FDNY pension has hedge funds in its portfolio. They’ve had to go to alternative investments with interest rates in the shitter for nearly two decades. So, the victory is pyrrhic, in some sense. There are average people gonna suffer because of the manipulation and a game. 

Hopefully it brings about change in the system, because the big boys manipulate the market at will; always have and likely always will. But, I’m afraid the best antidote for this is the dreaded “Regulation” word.

Edited January 30, 2021 by FDNYOldGuy
English, MF, do I speak it? Apparently not with those misspellings and autocorrect errors.

[jazzdude]

100% agree. It’s why I laugh when people say we have a capitalist system. We don’t. If you have the money to pay for play, you can diddle the system to work for you. Privatize the gains and socialize the losses.
...
Hopefully it brings about change in the system, because the big boys manipulate the market at will; always have and likely always will. But, I’m afraid the best antidote for this is the dreaded “Regulation” word.

We are generally pretty capitalist: but that also means the more capital/money you have, the more influence/power you have to affect change in your favor, whether it's the market or government. That's not a flaw, that's the system. The whole gamestop situation is showing if "regular" people band together and pool their resources towards a common goal, they collectively can also weild a small amount of influence as well.

Regulations and government are the only check on that to keep the extremely wealthy from screwing over the average person completely, outside of the extremely wealthy also having "good" values/morals and self regulating. But that's also dependent on government representing their constituents as a while, and not personal gain for themselves or friends.

So it'll be interesting to see where this goes, but I think you're right, Robinhood gets a slap on the wrist band that's about it.

[Swizzle]

Lately, This thread is so much fun to read...

Now, who wants to buy some rare tulips!? Better yet some tulip options (Jk).

[WTFAF]

It's a mania for sure. And I have to admit I've recently been adding options on to many of my more speculative plays. F'ng WSB got me all excited about a market short YOLO this spring which I think everyone is well aware of how that all played out. In the ensuing mania I made so much more back even though most of my TSP and 401k assets remain in cash. This market has confounded me since March so I'll just lurk and be grateful when folks keep the politics out of the "investment" discussions.

Okay, I'll allow myself one pleasure...

BCRX to the moon!

[Negatory]

I’ve had multiple airmen pull out money from their TSP to “invest” in dogecoin. I guess, on the bright side, they’ll get a taste of reality and losses early in life.

[17D_guy]

On 1/29/2021 at 2:47 PM, MilitaryToFinance said:

There are actual regulatory reasons why Robinhood and a number of other brokers did what they did on Thursday. And once you think about the mechanics of shorting a stock it is quite easy to understand how the shares short can be greater than the free float. But it seems people are having more fun ranting and raving about "the elites" so I won't let explanations spoil the fun.

Yes, none of which they mentioned, then the CEO denied they had those issues that night.

Why did all the other (Ameritrade, Schwab, etc.) halt buys as well.  They ALL were having liquidity issues getting required margin to their clearing houses?

Yes, you can have shorted shares > float pretty easily when you're just playing with margin and other people's money.  Oh yea, and regulation is so lax to allow it among the Good 'Ole Boys.

I'm generally pretty chill.  But after 2008 I have an extremely hard time dealing with rage that I get thinking about these bankers and billionaires.  For them to get away with no jail time, lying about their credit ratings then wrap themselves in the 1st Amendment, blame the people for buying houses they couldn't afford when there were predatory lending programs they set up.  Fines of millions on billions of dollars of profit.

And we still have hedge funds that double as market makers, and market makers that heavily invest into multiple hedge funds.

[disgruntledemployee]

I had a few bucks in my 401K brokerage, so this early fall I bought a few shares each of Pfizer, Moderna, and Novavax, thinking if any of these hits a homerun on a vaccine, I might earn a few.  Well, thanks to the short squeezers, Novavax is about to double.  Beer covered for the next few months.  Oh wait, its in the 401K, shit.  I'll stock up when I'm 65 then. 

 

[ClearedHot]

And Robinhood has lifted all trading restrictions now that their "regulatory liquidity" issues have been resolved...or should we say not that the price of Gamestop stock has tumbled from $545 down to below $90 and all the small guys who challenged the short are getting crushed. 

 

 

[Ryder1587]

I think crypto is here to stay.  I’ve been slowly investing since March and now that Tesla bought 1.5 billion in Bitcoin it’s becoming mainstream. Recommend investing a small amount of your portfolio into different types. High risk but high reward. 

[Majestik Møøse]

On 1/29/2021 at 8:26 AM, Swamp Yankee said:

Yes.  Congress is the only place you can make $174k yet become a multimillionaire.  

How could you not? Investing 10% of that salary at 7% ROR yields $1m liquid in 23 years. Not even counting real estate appreciation, which is how most people get there. Inflation not accounted for.

https://smartasset.com/investing/investment-calculator#OCfdEpDGFU

[LimaLowdown]

Inflation is going to be huge...especially after COVID and with the current leadership...

[FLEA]

6 hours ago, Ryder1587 said:

I think crypto is here to stay.  I’ve been slowly investing since March and now that Tesla bought 1.5 billion in Bitcoin it’s becoming mainstream. Recommend investing a small amount of your portfolio into different types. High risk but high reward. 

I just took a Crypto class on Udemy and after completing it and fully understanding the mechanisms that make it work, I don't think there's anyway it can go away. It will change in value but will always be an investment option. The news that businesses like Tesla and Apple are begining to horde crypto and are ready to accept payment in it, is only promising for it's future. 

[Lord Ratner]

On 1/29/2021 at 8:55 AM, FLEA said:

Well, I guess you have a problem with AOC supporting riots to murder cops this summer right? Remember when she said riots should make people feel uncomfortable? Or are we being disingenuous? I actually have a lot of respect for AOC but this was a missed oppurtunity for her. Nothing about her comment is bipartisan, it's actually quite polarizing. She should have taken the higher road on this one. 

 

Basically, she just jeapordized the chances of this movement to have meaningful change for the average person by risking politicizing the issue; because she can't get over her own political ego. Unsat.

At some point people will realize she's the (D) version of Trump. I suspect her political fortunes will be similar.

[pawnman]

26 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

At some point people will realize she's the (D) version of Trump. I suspect her political fortunes will be similar.

She'll be elected president, do a terrible job, get impeached, and attempt to get her supporters to overthrow the results when she loses her re-election bid?

[Lord Ratner]

36 minutes ago, pawnman said:

She'll be elected president, do a terrible job, get impeached, and attempt to get her supporters to overthrow the results when she loses her re-election bid?

She'll be popular due to a failure of our institutions to protect the American Dream for regular citizens, rise because she is willing to say politically unpopular things that alienate her from the establishment but ingratiate her with her base, use social media to bypass the usual structures and speak directly to her followers, lack any sort of real understanding of the system she wishes to change, continually say things that are factually wrong, not offer a face-saving route for her opposition to side with her, and ultimately fizzle out because she can't make the transition from activist to diplomat and appeal to a broad spectrum of voters.