Enlist or go to college?

[Dandemonium]

I just recently graduated high school and I don't know if I should enlist in the Air Force or go to college. What would give me the better chance of eventually becoming a pilot for the Air Force? I was wondering in how much time would I be able to get a 4 year degree? My recruiter says its possible to do it within 4 years but I have trouble seeing that happen with deployment and all. I know that many Air Force bases offer Embry-Riddle courses (most online) and I'd be most interested in getting an Aeronautics degree from that school. If I go to college it would be for a Police Science BS degree. My AF recruiter wants to put me in as a Security Forces Apprentice and I heard that they deploy for 6 months out of the year. From what I read on the internet I see that most people that go for a Pilot slot are in the mechanical or electronics field in the Air Force; would a SecFor guy even have a chance against them? Also, would I be allowed/have the time to get a Private Pilots license while in the Air Force when stationed at home? Thanks.

[spaceman]

Dude if you want to be a pilot then join the ANG and go to college. And do something at least aviation related, not security forces! Your recruiter wants you to go "SF" because no one else wants to do it most likely.

If you search you will find many threads that will help you.

And go to www.airforceots.com

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[Dandemonium]

Dude if you want to be a pilot then join the ANG and go to college. And do something at least aviation related, not security forces! Your recruiter wants you to go "SF" because no one else wants to do it most likely.

If you search you will find many threads that will help you.

And go to www.airforceots.com

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Why ANG over enlisting in the active duty air force?

[M2]

This is a question you're gonna have to answer for yourself. Are you ready for college? How are your high school transcripts? Honestly, are you ready for the challenge of college and AFROTC? Are you ready to accept that despite your best effort, you may not get a pilot slot?

As a prior guy, I can tell you there are tangible benefits to spending a few years in the USAF before going to college; but I needed to. I would've flunked out had I gone straight out of high school, and not only did I mature considerably during my enlisted tenure I also knocked off some college credits.

There are also advantages to going Guard/Reserves if you go to school, but honestly it would only be for two years as once you go into the POC in AFROTC you'll need to resign from the Guard/Reserves. When I finished my active duty enlistment and went off to college, I was in the Reserves for about a year and a half; it helped a lot but juggling it, AFROTC and college was a lot.

The main advantage would be if you wanted to fly for a particular Guard/Reserve unit, enlisting in it will help your chance later on; but if you intend to go on active duty that's not the route you want. However, you chances of flying and getting a particular airframe are better going Guard/Reserve.

Hope that helps, best of luck to you whatever you decide...

Cheers! M2

[Kenny Powers]

If you are ready to go to college, know what you want to study, and think you will be successful, I would go to college first for one reason - it gives you the largest window to apply to become a pilot. If you enlist first for 4 years, especially in a high ops tempo job like the flightline, you wont have a ton of time to go to college. So 4 years after enlisting you could hit college, 3-4 years of college (depending on if you can get any classes done on active duty), then you are eligible to apply. By that time, you are 25-27, cutting it close to the age limit (unless you're ROTC).

Do some research and figure out if you want to go ANG or Active, either is a good choice and both will help you pay for your school. Enlisting in an ANG unit, letting them pay for your school ,and busting your ass 1 weekend a month would be a great way to work your way towards being a pilot. Even if you apply to other units, the inteviewing SQ/CC will likely call your SQ/CC and ask about you.

Of course you could do active duty, then join an ANG unit when you get out and go to college. Plenty of ways to do it.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Kenny Powers

[Fud]

Go to college.

[Learjetter]

Go directly to college.

[HU&W]

I've been where you are. I chose college, did poorly since I had no specific goals, and dropped out. After a few years of working odd jobs and then getting married, I enlisted, did really well going to college in the evenings while working on AD full time, and got an OTS slot. It was the hard way. I wasn't mature enough out of high school to take college seriously. Getting married gave me a purpose for education and enlisting helped me learn the importance of being dedicated to an objective. Today, I'm a pilot. I took the difficult road and got lucky. If I'd been in a career field that deployed more or didn't allow you to go to school every evening after working full days I doubt I'd be where I am today. Out of all of my friends I enlisted with who espoused the same plans as you, I am the only one who is flying aircraft today. I'd say the odds are against you becoming a pilot if you enlist, but that doesn't mean you can't have an overall successful career and life via that path.

I would recommend going to college. If you want to be a pilot and are completely focused on that goal, your best odds are to attend the Air Force Academy. Personally, if I were to do it again and had the understanding of pursuing a goal I do today, I would go to the university of my choice and go through AFROTC. I feel this method gives you the best mix of opportunity, education, and experience.

Edited to add: If you want to be a police officer, choose security forces. If you want to be a personal trainer or a cook, choose services. If you want to be a airplane mechanic, choose aircraft maintenance. If you want to be a pilot, the same applies. Do everything it takes to be a pilot. The most important qualifying factor, other than physical condition, is having a bachelor's degree. Prioritize as you see fit.

Edited October 6, 2012 by HU&W

[Dandemonium]

I've been where you are. I chose college, did poorly since I had no specific goals, and dropped out. After a few years of working odd jobs and then getting married, I enlisted, did really well going to college in the evenings while working on AD full time, and got an OTS slot. It was the hard way. I wasn't mature enough out of high school to take college seriously. Getting married gave me a purpose for education and enlisting helped me learn the importance of being dedicated to an objective. Today, I'm a pilot. I took the difficult road and got lucky. If I'd been in a career field that deployed more or didn't allow you to go to school every evening after working full days I doubt I'd be where I am today. Out of all of my friends I enlisted with who espoused the same plans as you, I am the only one who is flying aircraft today. I'd say the odds are against you becoming a pilot if you enlist, but that doesn't mean you can't have an overall successful career and life via that path.

I would recommend going to college. If you want to be a pilot and are completely focused on that goal, your best odds are to attend the Air Force Academy. Personally, if I were to do it again and had the understanding of pursuing a goal I do today, I would go to the university of my choice and go through AFROTC. I feel this method gives you the best mix of opportunity, education, and experience.

Thanks everyone for responding, its helping a lot. What AFS were you as enlisted?

[17D_guy]

Thanks everyone for responding, its helping a lot. What AFS were you as enlisted?

I was a 3C2X1 (Comm Tech Control) - which doesn't exist anymore, and neither might HU&W's. My old careerfield is 3D??? now. But I don't think there's an enlisted careerfield that's going to on-ramp you for being commissioning/being pilot. Someone else please correct me if I'm wrong.

Took me a decade to knock out my degree while in jobs that did not deploy much. Your first 2 years in the AF as Amn are not going to be good for college. So there's 1/2 your enlistment if you do 4 years (which you should). Always go mins when dealing with gov't commitment.

I'm not a pilot, but when I applied to OTS I got the following advice: "Do you want to be an officer, or a (insert officery job here)" because it's a dice roll if you're getting in (look at current approval rates) AND if you'll get the job you want. In 2008 I put Intel, Comm, Space & Missiles... and got Comm. Very very strange that I got that given what was going on in the AF at the time.

Also, go to college.

Edited October 6, 2012 by 17D_guy

[HU&W]

Thanks everyone for responding, its helping a lot. What AFS were you as enlisted?

My previous AFSC doesn't matter as it doesn't exist anymore and my circumstances were unique. My guidance to you would be to do what YOU want to do. Work extremely hard to follow a path that you know will either achieve your goals or will provide you with suitable alternatives that you will enjoy. Never allow somebody else that doesn't have a vested interest in your future to guide you down an undesirable path that fits their agenda.

[Vno]

USMC PLC. Look it up.

[guineapigfury]

I would recommend going to college. If you want to be a pilot and are completely focused on that goal, your best odds are to attend the Air Force Academy. Personally, if I were to do it again and had the understanding of pursuing a goal I do today, I would go to the university of my choice and go through AFROTC. I feel this method gives you the best mix of opportunity, education, and experience.

... Prioritize as you see fit.

Yes. No. Oh fuck yes.

If you want to be a pilot, make that your goal in life. I know a couple dozen people who went to USAFA, exactly 1 of them would do it again if they had it to do all over again. Take that for what it's worth. OTS is a few months of bullshit, USAFA is a few years of bullshit, learn how to do math then make your decision.

[HU&W]

If you want to be a pilot, make that your goal in life. I know a couple dozen people who went to USAFA, exactly 1 of them would do it again if they had it to do all over again. Take that for what it's worth. OTS is a few months of bullshit, USAFA is a few years of bullshit, learn how to do math then make your decision.

FWIW, I would consider USAFA if being a pilot was the only goal in exclusion. Really, that choice regarding that goal is more of a numbers game than anything else. USAFA graduates approximately 1000 students per year. Of those, just a little over 500 usually become pilots. Even ignoring the fact that there were hundreds of graduates that weren't medically eligible or just didn't want to be a pilot, those are great odds.

Even so, I wouldn't recommend USAFA to my own kids. If they decide to be AF pilots, my recommendation would absolutely be AFROTC at a good university with a great football program. I would want them to pick a degree that they could enjoy while going through college that would give them career alternatives after graduation (if the pilot thing doesn't work out). Always have a backup plan, focus on your goals, work hard, and have fun.

Edited October 7, 2012 by HU&W

[Pancake]

I just recently graduated high school and I don't know if I should enlist in the Air Force or go to college...

Since you can't receive PMs...

I grew up wanting to go to USAFA and become a fighter pilot and eventually an airline pilot. After graduating from high school with a low GPA (too busy non-revving around the country on Dad's benefits to go to school), direct entry into USAFA wasn't possible, so I enlisted in the active duty (AD) Air Force as a security policeman. About a year after entering AD, I applied for and was accepted to the USAFA Prep School, eventually graduating from USAFA in 2001 and earning a fighter from UPT. After nearly 14 years, I left AD for the Guard and am still flying fighters on AGR status waiting to get a call from a major airline. So here's my two cents...

1. Maintain control of your life. Goals change, other opportunities come up, you learn things about your self you don't know now, etc... The AD UPT commitment is an entirely different 10 years than the ANG commitment. Just realize that once you commit to becoming an AD pilot, it's a 14-17 year proposition from where you are now. I HOPE you're a different person at 30 than you are now. My guess is your goals will be different too. Commit to becoming a pilot, but make sure you know the commitment requirements of each path.

2. Don't let "prestige" (it doesn't exist) drive your efforts. You'll become cynical. Take the most efficient route to achieving your goals.

While I've had incredible experiences on AD, if I could do it again, I wouldn't go to USAFA (and won't recommend it to my kids). Instead, I would enlist in the ANG doing a job that aligns with my selected university major, then approach Ops about UPT boards approaching my junior year. OR, go ROTC at a nationally recognized school with a major that coincides with what I loved doing as a kid.

Lots of good advice above, but I most agree with HU&W's post directly above mine. After doing grad school at Arizona (Tucson) I can't agree more with going to a great school with a great football team (the Wildcats were ranked at the time). Don't forget, this whole process SHOULD be fun. If it's not, you're doing it wrong.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Pancake

[Dandemonium]

Since you can't receive PMs...

I grew up wanting to go to USAFA and become a fighter pilot and eventually an airline pilot. After graduating from high school with a low GPA (too busy non-revving around the country on Dad's benefits to go to school), direct entry into USAFA wasn't possible, so I enlisted in the active duty (AD) Air Force as a security policeman. About a year after entering AD, I applied for and was accepted to the USAFA Prep School, eventually graduating from USAFA in 2001 and earning a fighter from UPT. After nearly 14 years, I left AD for the Guard and am still flying fighters on AGR status waiting to get a call from a major airline. So here's my two cents...

1. Maintain control of your life. Goals change, other opportunities come up, you learn things about your self you don't know now, etc... The AD UPT commitment is an entirely different 10 years than the ANG commitment. Just realize that once you commit to becoming an AD pilot, it's a 14-17 year proposition from where you are now. I HOPE you're a different person at 30 than you are now. My guess is your goals will be different too. Commit to becoming a pilot, but make sure you know the commitment requirements of each path.

2. Don't let "prestige" (it doesn't exist) drive your efforts (you'll become cynical). Take the most efficient routes to achieving your goals.

While I've had incredible experiences on AD, if I could do it again, I wouldn't go to USAFA (and won't recommend it to my kids). Instead, I would enlist in the ANG doing a job that aligns with my selected university major, then approach Ops about UPT boards approaching my junior year. OR, go ROTC at a nationally recognized school with a major that coincides with what I loved doing as a kid.

Lots of good advice above, but I most agree with HU&W's post directly above mine. After doing grad school at Arizona (Tucson) I can't agree more with going to a great school with a great football team (the Wildcats were ranked at the time). Don't forget, this whole process SHOULD be fun. If it's not, you're not doing it right.

Thanks for posting. What were the requirements to get into USAFA at that time? Did you have to pass the SAT with a certain score? Honestly if I do go through with enlisting I'd definitely be applying to USAFA if I get the the required SAT score. I'd be very happy to go to the Air Force academy and be an AD pilot for 10 years then switch to national guard like you have done. Except I think it's much harder now to get accepted to USAFA as a security forces person especially since they are deployed 6 months out of the year.

[17D_guy]

blah blah blah ....... I'd be very happy to go to the Air Force academy and be an AD pilot for 10 years then switch to national guard like you have done... blah blah blah

Please read his post again. It's not just the 10 years commitment. Remember the training time involved.

[Kilgore Trout]

Thanks for posting. What were the requirements to get into USAFA at that time? Did you have to pass the SAT with a certain score? Honestly if I do go through with enlisting I'd definitely be applying to USAFA if I get the the required SAT score. I'd be very happy to go to the Air Force academy and be an AD pilot for 10 years then switch to national guard like you have done. Except I think it's much harder now to get accepted to USAFA as a security forces person especially since they are deployed 6 months out of the year.

Then don't be a security forces person.

I would suggest getting some classes knocked out at your local accredited community college while you're sitting around making a decision. It will help you get in to public universities next year and/or in to USAFA/USAFA prep school. Get some classes knocked out now while you're sitting around, work hard at a meaningful job to save up some cash/get life experience, and apply to your local state school with a ROTC unit next fall. Your course load will be reduced since you knocked out a few pre-reqs in a better environment at your community college and it'll ease the transition in to ROTC with a full time college load.

In a few years, you'll head off to ENJJPT to become the world's best fighter pilot with a commission in hand.

[Pancake]

Thanks for posting.

Don't be a cop.

If you want to be a pilot, SF is a total waste of time. Do something that relates to flying or combat. Air Traffic Control, JTAC, maintenance, weather, airfield management, enlisted aircrew, for example, will both contribute to your airmanship, and have marketable applications in the private world. No offense to law enforcement, but you can always be a cop. IMO, it's better to go in "open general" than guaranteed cop.

I can't tell you how many airmen have said to me, "My boss wouldn't let me go to the Air Force Academy," or "I couldn't apply because I was deployed." These are total BS excuses for people who are more comfortable earning $25,000 a year living in the airman dorms, than doing something totally awesome with their lives. YOUR BOSS CAN'T STOP YOU FROM APPLYING, EVEN IF YOU ARE DEPLOYED!

So, if you want to be a cop, be a cop. Your AFSC doesn't matter when applying to USAFA, deployed or not. Think about it, though, enlisting gives you an incredible opportunity to learn a marketable technical skill. Don't waste that opportunity.

SAT/ACT requirements for getting into USAFA Prep are much lower than USAFA, as you take the SAT several times during your Preppie year. USAFA airmen slots regularly go unfilled for lack of applicants. It's pretty easy to get in to USAFA as an airman, as proven by my example. The airman-to-ROTC program is the real golden ticket.

Last post on this topic. Good luck.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Pancake

[HU&W]

Don't be a cop.

If you want to be a pilot, SF is a total waste of time. Do something that relates to flying or combat. Air Traffic Control, JTAC, maintenance, weather, airfield management, enlisted aircrew, for example, will both contribute to your airmanship, and have marketable applications in the private world. No offense to law enforcement, but you can always be a cop. IMO, it's better to go in "open general" than guaranteed cop.

I can't tell you how many airmen have said to me, "My boss wouldn't let me go to the Air Force Academy," or "I couldn't apply because I was deployed." These are total BS excuses for people who are more comfortable earning $25,000 a year living in the airman dorms, than doing something totally awesome with their lives. YOUR BOSS CAN'T STOP YOU FROM APPLYING, EVEN IF YOU ARE DEPLOYED!

So, if you want to be a cop, be a cop. Your AFSC doesn't matter when applying to USAFA, deployed or not. Think about it, though, enlisting gives you an incredible opportunity to learn a marketable technical skill. Don't waste that opportunity.

SAT/ACT requirements for getting into USAFA Prep are much lower than USAFA, as you take the SAT several times during your Preppie year. USAFA airmen slots regularly go unfilled for lack of applicants. It's pretty easy to get in to USAFA as an airman, as proven by my example. The airman-to-ROTC program is the real golden ticket.

Last post on this topic. Good luck.

I bolded a few items from the previous post that are excellent advice and 100% true. If you do decide to enlist, please pay close attention to those things. If you decide to enlist as a way to facilitate admission to the academy, prep school is an exceptional opportunity for folks with less than stellar high school resumes. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[17D_guy]

Of note, the vast majority of those that I enlisted with that went in Open General got Sec Forces. Those that crosstrained into my field from Open General were Sec Forces.

Don't go Sec Forces. Dont' go Open General. If you have questions about enlisted AFSCs ask on the airforectimes forum as they have a greater spread of those fields. Aircrew enlisted woud be here.

[afnav]

It's a radically different Big Blue from when I came in, but I can tell you what I did.

I went to college for a year and ran out of money. My det was 75% prior enlisted, and suggested I enlist to get money to come back to school. I did, and it was the best decision I could have made. I went in as aircraft mnx, and learned the flying business from the enlisted side. Truth be told, B-52 gunner was #1 on my list, but that's life. I re-applied to AFROTC, and did my interview in my buck sgt blues. It worked.

I paid my dues in missiles and then applied for flying training and was selected. It helped going through it as an older guy.

My girlfriend was an SP when I was enlisted. Believe me, you do not want to be a cop unless you REALLY want to be a cop.

[guineapigfury]

It's a radically different Big Blue from when I came in, but I can tell you what I did.

I went to college for a year and ran out of money. My det was 75% prior enlisted, and suggested I enlist to get money to come back to school. I did, and it was the best decision I could have made. I went in as aircraft mnx, and learned the flying business from the enlisted side. Truth be told, B-52 gunner was #1 on my list, but that's life. I re-applied to AFROTC, and did my interview in my buck sgt blues. It worked.

I paid my dues in missiles and then applied for flying training and was selected. It helped going through it as an older guy.

My girlfriend was an SP when I was enlisted. Believe me, you do not want to be a cop unless you REALLY want to be a cop stand in the rain waiting to have the DBIDS reader look at the CACs because your leadership doesn't trust you to do it yourself.

FIFY.

[HU&W]

My girlfriend was an SP when I was enlisted. Believe me, you do not want to be a cop unless you REALLY want to be a cop stand in the rain waiting to have the DBIDS reader look at the CACs because your leadership doesn't trust you to do it yourself.

FIFY.

Driving through the gate on a particularly cold and rainy day I was greeted by an overly happy SF Airman. Dressed in body armor, poncho, and a reflective belt, he greeted me with a smile and asked how my day was going as I handed him my ID. DBIDS scan took awhile and I saw a slight crack in the smile, but it was right back when he returned my ID. I asked how his day was going and with a sharp salute, he responded "OUTSTANDING". Then, as I just started to pull away, I heard him murmur through gritted teeth "I'm out standing in the f---ing rain all day"

Food for thought

[LJDRVR]

Lots of good advice. I can tell you from personal experience, you're not going to finish a degree on active duty. There will be too many demands on your time, and your unit may not release you for a commissioning program if their manning sucks.

If I had it to do over, I would have joined my local Guard tanker unit as a boomer.