Appealing a promotion board

[DC]

Any idea when the next promotion board meets for passed over dudes? Like will it be a year from your last board or does your name get thrown into the hat for the next sequential board? I saw that there were something like 3 or 4 boards a year so I was just curious how many lives I have left...

It will be around the same time next year. There is only one board a year for active duty LAF Capt. Check the myPers website for 2013 promotion milestones. That will give you all the important dates for each board.

Skyryder, get yourself on your commander's schedule for some "career mentorship" ASAP. The answer Gravedigger gave is correct, but you're a Lieutenant lost in the woods. Telling you to go to the myPers website isn't going to solve your problem! The cluelessness you're displaying on the promotion board process isn't uncommon. Most in your shoes are just as lost. Hell, I was at one point, too. Get un-lost. Time to climb, conserve, confess.

Your leadership is failing to mentor you...but you can force it from them. Your commander won't bite. I promise. It is his job to mentor you. He gets paid to do it. If he's not doing it, then why's he there? Go do it, and suddenly you won't just be another Lt to him, you'll be a no-shit person with a face he'll remember and care about. Take charge of your own career. Let your leadership know you care about your direction and place in the world. That is more important than any AAD, PME, or other bullshit you're going to do anyway.

This forum shouldn't be your first stop to get your questions answered.

[drachen]

Take charge of your own career. Let your leadership know you care about your direction and place in the world. That is more important than any AAD, PME, or other bullshit you're going to do anyway.

Spot on. Nobody and I mean nobody cares about your career more than you do. They say the squeaky wheel gets the grease, but the trick is to be tactfully "squeaky" and not a whiner.

[Shiner]

YGTBFSM!

I can't believe I haven't heard about this bullshit happening on such a widespread scale. There is definitely a failure of leadership, but like some of you have identified, the paperwork is what is ######ing everyone. Typical rated dude has a few months casual before UPT/UNT, 13 months of humbling, and then a few more months of casual while the training report finalizes. I am sad, but not really shocked, to hear about training reports being lost in the system. I think the regs say 60 days to close out, but 3/5 of my training reports have taken 6-9 months each. If timing is wrong for you, that could totally screw you over; especially when you have no OPRs vs a shoeclerk with 3. Time for the rated officer to be overly jaded at an earlier age.

Good luck fighting this and I hope you make some progress!

[Murph]

YGTBFSM!

I can't believe I haven't heard about this bullshit happening on such a widespread scale.

I can--the details for some of these stories seem suspect.

[OregonHerc]

I can--the details for some of these stories seem suspect.

Not sure about the rest of the dudes that have posted, but my story is legit. Nothing negative, 3 training reports only.

[Spaceballs]

I had two training reports and a blank duty history. There is an appeal process I'm going through, but I'll already be put in for the ABZ board by the time I find out how the SSB went.

Does anyone know how much an ABZ promotion affects your career? If I have to go to that one and I get picked up, is it going to look bad for trying to put in for schools, cross-training, or especially the major board? What about a lt col board?

[Catbox]

I had two training reports and a blank duty history. There is an appeal process I'm going through, but I'll already be put in for the ABZ board by the time I find out how the SSB went.

Does anyone know how much an ABZ promotion affects your career? If I have to go to that one and I get picked up, is it going to look bad for trying to put in for schools, cross-training, or especially the major board? What about a lt col board?

I had two LTs go through this board and I think its safe to say that no one in my entire chain really understood how this Captain's board was going to work, so I think speculating at how an ABZ board to Capt would affect you in the long term is exactlay that; speculating.

However I will say that I have known a small number of guys get picked up for LtCol above the zone and one of them even got selected for O-6 when he was in the zone. Keep at it, slog through this knee deep BS as long as you possibly can.

[sweet I'm SOF]

I had two training reports and a blank duty history. There is an appeal process I'm going through, but I'll already be put in for the ABZ board by the time I find out how the SSB went.

Does anyone know how much an ABZ promotion affects your career? If I have to go to that one and I get picked up, is it going to look bad for trying to put in for schools, cross-training, or especially the major board? What about a lt col board?

Cgjohnst, you are not going to like this, but I do not understand your argument. You were selected or non-selected based on merit. If you did not get picked up, you did not make the cut. I understand it is a bit draconian, but that's the military. I get waivers thrown at me all the time. I seldom approve them. Unless it is a compelling hardship issue, the standards are the standards. I had to meet them. I expect everyone else to meet them. You can say that times are different, but if I were in your shoes, if I were in these "different" times and I was passed over, I would march on. No appeals, no waivers.

[17D_guy]

Cgjohnst, you are not going to like this, but I do not understand your argument. You were selected or non-selected based on merit. If you did not get picked up, you did not make the cut. I understand it is a bit draconian, but that's the military. I get waivers thrown at me all the time. I seldom approve them. Unless it is a compelling hardship issue, the standards are the standards. I had to meet them. I expect everyone else to meet them. You can say that times are different, but if I were in your shoes, if I were in these "different" times and I was passed over, I would march on. No appeals, no waivers.

Hey, look everybody, a troll!

Edited October 15, 2012 by 17D_guy

[10percenttruth]

Hey, look everybody a troll!

Damn! Beat me to it!

[sweet I'm SOF]

Hey, look everybody, a troll!

What does "troll" mean on here exactly? If you don't agree or cannot understand it is a troll comment? I am not interested in that garbage.

[tac airlifter]

Cgjohnst, you are not going to like this, but I do not understand your argument. You were selected or non-selected based on merit. If you did not get picked up, you did not make the cut. I understand it is a bit draconian, but that's the military. I get waivers thrown at me all the time. I seldom approve them. Unless it is a compelling hardship issue, the standards are the standards. I had to meet them. I expect everyone else to meet them. You can say that times are different, but if I were in your shoes, if I were in these "different" times and I was passed over, I would march on. No appeals, no waivers.

He wasn't " selected or non selected based on merit.". He was selected or non selected based on his records, just like the rest of us. Difference is his records were incomplete, he was too new to the AF to know how to correct it himself, and his leadership failed to ensure his job titles, etc. were correctly input. So I'd say he has a decent case for an appeal, it certainly wouldn't hurt to try, and your advice is terrible.

Edited October 15, 2012 by tac airlifter

[Danny Noonin]

the standards are the standards. I had to meet them. I expect everyone else to meet them. .

What "standards" exactly did this guy not meet?

[10percenttruth]

What does "troll" mean on here exactly? If you don't agree or cannot understand it is a troll comment? I am not interested in that garbage.

It means you're purposely picking a fight with inflammatory (& blatantly incorrect) statements. Normally trolls should not be fed by reacting to them, but you strike me more as a grumpy old head who yearns for the good old days "back when it was tough", and whines about it on this new-fangled interwebz.

[soultrain]

Cgjohnst, you are not going to like this, but I do not understand your argument. You were selected or non-selected based on merit. If you did not get picked up, you did not make the cut. I understand it is a bit draconian, but that's the military. I get waivers thrown at me all the time. I seldom approve them. Unless it is a compelling hardship issue, the standards are the standards. I had to meet them. I expect everyone else to meet them. You can say that times are different, but if I were in your shoes, if I were in these "different" times and I was passed over, I would march on. No appeals, no waivers.

Edited October 16, 2012 by soultrain

[Guest]

I get waivers thrown at me all the time. I seldom approve them.

Feel the power surging though your veins...

Hey, look everybody, a troll!

He's not a troll, he's a c-c-c-douche.

[Guest one]

sweet I'm SOF,

How can you read the situation presented and come up with that conclusion. It is common sense.

Do you comprehend the situation? If you said that you don't believe Cgjohnst or something didn't sound right about the story, that would be completely understandable. It is also interesting that you think this is something not important enough to investigate. If your paperwork was all jacked up and you got passed over for promotion would you just shrug it off and wait until next year? That is either being lazy or stupid.

If you have the power to approve waivers but lack common reasoning skills, I feel very bad for all the people you've failed in your career.

[Jaded]

His lack of reading comprehension and common sense strongly point to him being a mid to high-level manager in our Air Force. Or a USAFA cadet. Could go either way I guess.

[sweet I'm SOF]

That's actually a pretty good jab...mid to high-level manager or an academy cadet.

For our guy that is seeking advice to appeal, I did not want to come right out and say this, but it is extremely unlikely that a missing training report was the cog that broke down the machine that was going to get him or her promoted. A lot of folks were promoted. Some weren't. In my experience, for the ones that weren't, it was the right call. They all had extenuating circumstances if you were to ask them or give them a forum in which they could air their grievances. There are exceptions. Maybe this guy or gal is one of them, but as someone earlier in another thread accurately accused me of: I am grumpy and cynical.

I do think that all of the advice given was good. You guys and gals on here do a much better job than myself of giving everyone every benefit of the doubt. If the guy was in my unit, I would investigate, because it is the right thing to do. But I do have predilections based on experience. I hope this guy or gal proves that it was an oversight and gets picked up. My intended audience extended beyond him or her.

[Cap-10]

Does anyone know how much an ABZ promotion affects your career? If I have to go to that one and I get picked up, is it going to look bad for trying to put in for schools, cross-training, or especially the major board? What about a lt col board?

I know an Viper Driver that was passed over to Major in the zone...made it ABZ, and then made Lt Col IPZ as well.

There's still hope!

Good Luck!

Cheers,

Cap-10

[BQZip01]

I know an Viper Driver that was passed over to Major in the zone...made it ABZ, and then made Lt Col IPZ as well.

There's still hope!

Good Luck!

Cheers,

Cap-10

Thanks for the optimism

[Fifty-six & Two]

I know an Viper Driver that was passed over to Major in the zone...made it ABZ, and then made Lt Col IPZ as well.

Isn't his new IPZ based on his DOR to O-4, so it's still technically APZ compared to his commissioning year group?

Edited October 17, 2012 by Fifty-six & Two

[theat6bisasham]

The ranting is aimed at big-boy-shoe-clerk-waiver-authority-my-butt..

So we have to ask ourselves a question which of these realities we are living in...

#1 ) The AF is completely overmanned with brand new Lt's going to Capt, so that even though we just threw half a million bucks at them in training, we somehow need to boot them out (non-select competent dudes). If this is the case, then some wienies at AFPC need to get their asses thrown out of the USAF for being idiots. I'm sick of the government mentality that if you make a mistake like dealing with manning, that you can just shrug your shoulders and go on to your next assignment screwing things up. Why does this new Lt have to suffer, but the dudes who CAUSE the mistake get nothing, if not promoted and pushed on their career paths...

OR (more likely)

#2) The USAF is stupid, and put no damn weight as to what resources were poured into a Lt to get them to that board. I.e. they racked and stacked dudes who had 2 weeks of surf-board wax-training and stellar CGO involvement ahead of guys who just went through a year of casual (not their fault), a year of UNT/UPT and then 6 months FTU. They played the typical PC card and said they would rather have the 'better' (in their view) officer, no matter what the job. The seem to forget that if we have all surf-board waxers and nobody flying the jet, that we won't have any more ice cream cones to self-lick.

Guess what big blue - I'd rather have any average or even MEDIOCRE flyer than some rando from FSS who can't bother to stay past 1500. Idiot's forgot what the mission IS here...and big clue bird dummy, it's not stapling the chiefs EPR's and sprucing up powerpoints until you 'just get it right' all day long. It's hauling iron, pushing lines, giving gas, putting weapons on targets, deterring the enemy, making them look over their shoulder - and none of that originates from the shoe clerk arena. Sure, you need it - but there's a reason it's called SUPPORT. Hell, how many additional jobs do we take on in the squadron as the years go on...finance, CSS, travel? So if somehow I can be told I have to do everyone else's job, how the hell is it suddenly their jobs are so important as to take a dude OUT OF MY SQUADRON!!!! Are you KIDDING ME!!!!???? **RANT***

Edited October 17, 2012 by theat6bisasham

[Shiner]

...but it is extremely unlikely that a missing training report was the cog that broke down the machine that was going to get him or her promoted.

Wrong dude. The PRF system is super broken and AFPC crunches numbers to see how many of each AFSC they want projected at X timeframe. So, if they are like, "Oh shit we are going to have waaaay too many 11M2X or 11M1X O-3s meeting the FY12 board and subsequently the O-4 board..." then they cut them. Unfortunately, 11M means C-5, C-17, C-130, KC-10, KC-135, and a few others that I doubt many Lts fly. They don't care what airframe/base they come from, they just need to shrink the general numbers. This is why some units get hit harder because usually a commander didn't do such a great job at sending quality paperwork. Also reason for some units of the same airframe being undermanned while others are overmanned. Same generally goes for a RIF.

So, again, for dudes who only have training reports going to a board, missing a training report can totally ###### you over because there is a gap in your very short duty history. Instead of fixing the problem or digging deeper, they just put it in the DNP pile to make their job easier. Makes it even worse if there are very few easy cuts; people with UIFs.

Oh, AND if promotions were completely equal across the board for line-officers of all types, then aircrew would be at an even bigger disadvantage because the board also has shoeclerks who won't give two shits about what your flght-based training report has to say about you as an officer. What does talk to shoeclerks is how nice and neat your records are and OPRs that don't have operations bullets which remind them they wouldn't have a job without you.

[Guest]

Look, there is absolutely no excuse for passing a pilot (or fucking Nav) over for O-3. It is wasteful as hell.

If this is really happening I would be more than happy to write my senators ('sup Al Franken?!) and congressman.