More SARC briefings soon.

[TAMInated]

Lots of talk about what you wouldn't do to prevent the unacceptable and disgusting number of sexual assaults that occur every day in our Air Force.

How many assaults do you believe can be attributed to a picture of my hot wife or others' less-hot wives? Serious question.

[quote name="Liquid" post="362512" timestamp="1383276828"

normal people

[Liquid]

Why don't you?

Why don't I obsess about it? Because we received CSAF guidance to take down the sexually offensive and inappropriate material, so we did. No paperwork, no courts-martial, no tears. We took them down, even the beloved WWI nose art, and we moved on. We started correcting people for saying stupid inappropriate shit like "that's what she said". No firing squads, DNPs or Q-3s. Immediate, direct verbal feedback to knock it off. No big deal. No whining. Focus on leading and warfighting. Not sure if you've been paying attention, but we have some serious challenges with funding, threats and readiness ahead of us.

[TAMInated]

Had some Rochefort, sorry, what I meant was why don't you " move on to more important things"?

[Hueypilot]

we have some serious challenges

That is an understatement. Time to move on to the airlines and make use of my 20-year letter if this bull$hit gets any worse.

[TarHeelPilot]

This thread has gone full-retard. Wait, I apologize-- this thread has become mentally challenged.

[HeloDude]

I've always flown aircraft in squadrons with female crewmembers, so I never referred to pilot peers as "bros". I've never been in a squadron that blatantly used word games, sexual innuendo or songs about sex. I have given shit to my fighter pilot friends my entire career for those traditions. I did tolerate Maxim style pictures in combat zones, using the "bought it at the BX" test. I told inappropriate jokes when I was a crewdog. I probably use too much profanity and try to cut down on it at work. During my career, I saw plenty of what is now considered "inappropriate" material and didn't say anything. I didn't do that as a commander.

Gen Welsh told us it was time to change the culture in our Air Force that tolerated sexual harassment, hostile work environments and sexually offensive material in the work place. He explained that it was a part (not the only) of a strategy that will reduce sexual assault. I think he genuinely believes it. I agree with him. I also think we need to get serious about the other lines of operations like training, education, response, prosecution, and prevention. The culture change is not the most important, but it is time to change. Time to grow up and stop acting like frat boys at work. We changed the racist culture in our AF after WWII and we will change this culture. A few years from now, nobody will care that we don't get to have mermaid handle coffee mugs at work.

So everything was wrong before the Gen's policy change and now everything is correct? Yes, that is a juvenile response, and it was on purpose.

You ducked my entire question--if it was condoned before (even you said yourself that is was), then why wasn't Gen Swartz and a bunch of other senior officers fired? Why now? Girls were being harassed and assaulted earlier than just 1-2 years ago...why all of a sudden the change? I have a hard time believing that 90% of General officers thought an NFL cheerleader calendar at work added to the problem of sexual assault or believed that it was sexual harassment, but yet allowed it to continue for so long. It's not like any of this was a secret beforehand...hell, AAFES brought the cheerleaders to the base and would meet with the Wing Commanders!

You're right...you mentioned 'work' and that's what it is becoming. It used to be a place of a close fraternity of warriors--guys and girls, working hard to achieve a mission and not spending time worrying about BS. It was a place where you didn't have to worry about re-telling the slightest joke that you heard on TV the other night. It was a place where guys and gals would tell stories at the squadron bar and make fun of each other (whether with a sexual innuendo or not) and it would foster camaraderie, morale, and communication in a less threatening environment. It was a place where people would pull pranks on each other to lighten the tough work and didn't have to worry about somebody being 'offended' because people knew it was in good fun and we cared about each other and knew where the line was. I don't think I need to go on, I think you get the idea.

It's called incrementalism, General. You can say that it's just coffee mugs and posters, no big deal...but it is a step towards more. The below article is mentioned in a new thread, but just in case you missed it...

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/10/31/pentagon-training-manual-white-males-have-unfair-advantages/

And you didn't respond to my post from yesterday when I ask why you all still haven't enforced the tattoo policy all these years. Selective enforcement of the standards, depends on which way the politics is blowing. It's wrong to have a picture of a wife in a bathing suit (I'm sorry that offends you) but yet if it offends someone that DoD approved dudes in uniform to march in a gay pride parade next to dudes in drag, well then that's just their tough luck.

I saw this hypocrisy with the repeal of DADT...we were told sexuality didn't matter anymore, that we were all professional enough to deal with the issue, but yet, a guy and a girl can not live in the same pod together downrange even though 2 gay guys/girls can, that I can't use the same cadillac as the women, but yet if a guy is uncomfortable with having a gay guy in the same cadillac as him, well then that's just tough luck.

I don't envy the fact that senior officers have to deal with political bosses and answer to their ideology...but you know what, you guys asked for the job. Again, tell me which standards and regulations will and will not be enforced and I'll comply accordingly.

[nsplayr]

What would you do as a squadron commander, wing commander or CSAF? Hold offenders accountable? Like Wilkerson? Protect victims? Of which half don't want to report unrestricted because they think/know they won't be protected?

"Everyone is an adult who volunteered to serve their country. Thank you for that...along with the privilege of having one of the best professions in America, you now have shouldered the responsibility to act like an adult who is payed directly by the American taxpayers. Do you job, do it well, don't waste anyone's time, work well with your peers regardless of your personal opinion of them, and above all accomplish our critical mission.

If you feel like you have ever been treated as anything other than an adult and a valuable asset to our national security, come and talk to me directly and I will address the situation with you personally and take swift and direct action as appropriate. In addition, see my policy memo which gives specifics on some pretty obvious behavior that will not be tolerated (i.e. drinking & driving, racism, pornography on GOV property, etc.)"

Got it, you wouldn't ban bikini pics, videos about drinking horse urine or saying sts after someone says package. What would you tell 35 first term Airmen that just arrived at your base about your philosophy on sexual harassment and sexual assault?

Yep, wouldn't ban any of that stuff if it didn't interfere with the mission and was dealt with at the appropriate level. As other posters have pointed out, you enter a never-ending slippery slope when you try to outlaw very specific things...there's always something else the kids will think up next.

I learned this from my 2 year old...it's futile to attempt to ban specific behavior (Don't eat crayons!) because she'll just start putting them up her nose next and, damn, I didn't tell her specifically not to do that. You set the example, lead with a firm but fair attitude, and give those you're leading a frame of acceptable standards within which they can operate freely.

Is it probable that she will start putting crayons in her socks within my "acceptable frame?" Sure, been there done that, but at the end of the day such lesser offenses aren't detracting from my mission to run a successful family and I'm willing to appreciate her creative BFMing of my authority up to a certain point.

I cannot legislate naughtiness out of a 2 year old and you sir cannot legislate sex or anything related to sex entirely out of the American culture of your airmen. Attempting to do so will be a waste of time and will just piss everyone off. Then again I don't have to CYA my parenting style to Congress like you guys do so...I'll chalk it up to that.

My message to first-term airmen is relatively the same as I put in quotes above, perhaps with a little more detail or sternness to disuade anyone from choosing to f*ck around and not respect my authoritah.

I though most of this was common sense...

Edited November 1, 2013 by nsplayr

[SocialD]

How does singing dirty songs, displaying Hooters calendars, listening to sexually explicit songs, using sexual innuendos or putting pictures of sexy women in your crew briefs (all at work) make you a better warfighter?

Who sings dirty songs at work? Have you been in an operational squadron lately? The only place songs get sung, and explicit songs get played is during a roll call, behind closed doors and after hours. If you don't wish to take part, then leave, you're not required to be there. I have never witnessed inappropriate pictures in a flight brief. You keep bringing up shit that I don't think anyone is fighting to keep.

Read your magazines on your own time, not at work. If you need them or want to read them during your break, just put them in the damn drawer.

It was in the break room... Not mine, but I assume people read them on their union breaks or lunch break.

With as much bitching about how you can't read the -1 or the SPINS because you have to get your bullshit AAD, I'm surprised how many people want open and visible access to their magazines.

I've never bitched about such things. Thankfully, the AAD ridiculousness has yet to hit the Guard.

I've always flown aircraft in squadrons with female crewmembers, so I never referred to pilot peers as "bros". I've never been in a squadron that blatantly used word games, sexual innuendo or songs about sex. I have given shit to my fighter pilot friends my entire career for those traditions.

Ah the classic, I'm not a fighter pilot but assume we walk the hallways singing "rape songs" type of person. Had a few of those types in my pilot training class (former Navs), biggest haters of fighter pilots I've ever seen. Turns out, little if any of the shit they told us about fighter pilots was true. Weird how guys who've never spent any time in a fighter squadron didn't know shit about what really happens.

I did tolerate Maxim style pictures in combat zones, using the "bought it at the BX" test. I told inappropriate jokes when I was a crewdog. I probably use too much profanity and try to cut down on it at work. During my career, I saw plenty of what is now considered "inappropriate" material and didn't say anything. I didn't do that as a commander.

So...it was ok for you to do when you we're younger but not for us. Love the hypocrisy.

"Subjected"? My wife is hot, fuck you! No pictures to follow, wouldn't want to offend you.

It's true! I have pics if anyone wants to see!

[HeloDude]

The problem with your argument is you want leadership yet you rail against it. Undermining your boss does not make you one of the "bros." Didn't we just have a thread where everyone cried foul about the OGV dude who said "It's the boss's policy" instead of "I don't like hats."

Make up your damn mind...

Yes, there are shittastic leaders in the AF. There are also great ones. I have no personal knowledge of Liquid, so I cannot quantify him as either...but you just crucified him for what you (the collective) cried about in the "What's wrong with AF [sic]" thread.

I'll raise Liquid one: it's time for the sorry-ass FGOs and "senior" CGOs to stand the fuck up, stop whining, and fix shit. AKA "Lead, Follow, Or Get The Fuck Out Of The Way."

You're damn skippy I want leadership...but I want to know why something was deemed acceptable last year and now it's not. I get these guys have to answer to political bosses, but the 'well, I was always a supporter of this no-sexual innuendos' blah blah blah...it's bullshit man. The senior officers knew that fighter guys said 'so to speak', 6.9 seconds, that a lot of us had pictures of NFL cheerleaders (that freakin' AAFES gave us) at our desks...and then one day they're all of a sudden sexual harassment?? So I was sexually harassing coworkers all those years and I didn't even know it? Why didn't somebody tell me this then?

The military is ran by politicians, got it. Senior officers have to comply with what they are told by politicians or they will be replaced, got it, and same goes with the officers under the CSAF, and so on and so forth. But the senior officers do not have to blow smoke up your ass and act like they were always against things that went on in the AF while they were still in charge. Just give it to me straight...tell me WHY they were allowing something to occur last year, why all of a sudden the change this year, and where do we go from here.

The senior officers want to curb motorcycle accidents but yet they haven't banned riding motorcycles...if banning something is the key to fixing a problem, then why not do it there? I don't own a motorcycle and my life is just fine.

I get that the bikini pictures are out, got it. What else specifically is no longer allowed? Is showing somebody a clip from Family Guy on my phone allowed? If I'm pulling alert, are we allowed to watch Family Guy? What about Seinfeld?

[pcola]

How does singing dirty songs, displaying Hooters calendars, listening to sexually explicit songs, using sexual innuendos or putting pictures of sexy women in your crew briefs (all at work) make you a better warfighter? Don't go after the red herring that is a photo on your desk of your wife in a bikini. Comment on how our tradition of glamorizing sex makes us better.

Well, for starters, we in the military used to be concerned with things called "esprit de corps" and "camaraderie" and "brotherhood." Maybe those concepts are another example of things that you used to "tolerate but did not say anything." But you (and your type) certainly seem hell bent on killing all semblance of those concepts in your vision of tomorrow's military.

And no, Delta would probably not approve of such concepts or traditions. Who fucking cares. Last time I checked, they weren't in the business of stepping into harm's way in order to kill people and break their shit.

[pawnman]

Lots of talk about what you wouldn't do to prevent the unacceptable and disgusting number of sexual assaults that occur every day in our Air Force. What would you do as a squadron commander, wing commander or CSAF? Hold offenders accountable? Like Wilkerson? Protect victims? Of which half don't want to report unrestricted because they think/know they won't be protected? Got it, you wouldn't ban bikini pics, videos about drinking horse urine or saying sts after someone says package. What would you tell 35 first term Airmen that just arrived at your base about your philosophy on sexual harassment and sexual assault?

Like I've said, I'm not easily offended. I still don't want to see the pic. At work or in a bar. Keep it in your damn wallet or your phone like normal people do.

Well, what I wouldn't do is water down important issues with knee-jerk reactions like removing family photos, magazines sold on base, and pictures of females brought in by AF leadership (cheerleaders on a USO tour, for example).

It's not just a matter of whether it makes us better warfighters or not. Hell, you want to pull that argument, let's ban people from having families, since it makes them reluctant to work long hours, nights, and weekends. My biggest problem with this is that we have an actual, serious issue with sexual assaults, and our response has been to classify everything as a sexual assault. It would be like the police attempting to catch a serial killer by arresting every jay-walker. When leadership spouts this idea that a magazine with swimwear (sold at the BX, no less), or a picture of a wife in a bikini, or a Maxim, are the same as a rape, you are only serving to dilute the seriousness and severity of the real offenses. Instead of looking for real ways to solve our actual problems, we bring in briefers who tell me I'm committing sexual assault if my wife has a drink or two before we go to bed for the evening. Do you really think I'm going to listen to the rest of what that guy has to say?

I'll also leave you with this article about the recent "bikini photo sting operation".

https://www.jqpublic-blog.com/?p=558

[slackline]

The senior officers want to curb motorcycle accidents but yet they haven't banned riding motorcycles...if banning something is the key to fixing a problem, then why not do it there? I don't own a motorcycle and my life is just fine.

Hey, watch it! They'll actually take that serious, and I enjoy my motorcycles.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Boxhead]

As long as everyone up the chain is fine with the 2d and 3d order effects of this change, so be it.

Ever since I enlisted in 1991, I was told about how great it is that the Air Force is a "family". It MORE than just going to work, it's people that will fight to the death next to you, it's people that will support you, even if you are flawed, it's people that are worth the extra effort from you. It's not "just a job". I totally bought into that, and really, it worked for me for years. It has been a sad, sad, transition.

Many of the policies put in place now are basically making us a sanitized, civilian style workplace. That is fine. I can follow orders. I will also not be playing in any more of that mandatory fun that used to actually be…fun. Holiday parties? Unit events? Esprit de corps? Those types of things that are above and beyond my assigned time at work are reserved for people/institutions that care about me and that I care about, like a family.

Will I be hanging out with good friends from work after duty hours? Sure, but not at the Club, not in the squadron. The new USAF that is afraid to let people interact as the flawed humans they are are simply going to create a culture of clicks and small groups…all being politely professional at work, but with no actual substance to their relationships, no true desire to see their community as a whole succeed, just to survive the work day…make sure to keep those feelings in…don't want to show your true self, if for no other reason that someone may take a minor offense to it.

Really, it's all good. I can adapt.

[Fuzz]

Liquid, I don't agree with everything you say, but the maxim, ect ok fine. The picture of my wife and kids at the beach wearing what every fucking American wears at the beach because we aren't Iran is not sexually offensive. You want leaders that combat sexual assault? I can't be one, because your rules and standards defy any fucking common sense, that I don't even believe it when I hear it. I will fry the first person I see making unwanted sexual advances, slapping a female coworkers ass ect, but I can't keep up with the current list of what is sexually offensive I today's AF.

even the beloved WWI nose art.

Any and all respect I had for you or anyone in leadership, is gone. Edited November 1, 2013 by Fuzz

[di1630]

How does singing dirty songs, displaying Hooters calendars, listening to sexually explicit songs, using sexual innuendos or putting pictures of sexy women in your crew briefs (all at work) make you a better warfighter? Comment on how our tradition of glamorizing sex makes us better.

Liquid, I won't argue they make me a better warfighter...they don't. You need to understand that it isn't about the women or dirty language that is pissing everyone off.

Its the fact that the USAF is riddled with serious problems and leadership has gone full retard to stamp out things that anyone with a 69 IQ can tell is not really a problem and is just for show to the politicians. Instead of finding the real issues, the USAF has focused on fighter culture because it is visible.

You want some of the best/brightest officers to work 14 hour days, work on weekends and think you can get that by treating them like A1C dumbass? See where this gets you in a few years.

Edited November 1, 2013 by di1630

[Hueypilot]

Ditto. The people here protesting this latest round of PC are upset that the USAF won't treat them like adults. Seriously, you have to have a victimhood mindset to even remotely be offended by someone in swimwear. Adults dont go running to Big Blue crying because someone has a picture of another human in swimwear...its just ridiculous.

I promise I won't get offended if some female airman puts a picture of her husband or boyfriend in a swimsuit on her desk. I wouldn't even be offended if said guy was in a speedo...although I would carefully avoid trying to view such a photo to avoid searing my cornea with something that should just remain unseen. But I wouldn't be "offended" and claim I'm a victim of a hostile work environment.

There are so many more important things to be offended about. Like a 600+ page DoD manual that implies because I'm white and male I'm automatically racist and misogynistic...and if I say I'm not, I'm only in denial. Now THAT offends me!

But seriously...if you're constantly being offended by small things like swimsuits and minor innuendo that's not even directed at you, it's time to take a look in the mirror and ask why. I've been the subject of jokes and pranks, heard all sorts of stuff from males and females, seen pictures I wish I could gouge out of my brain, and not once did I feel offended or feel like I couldn't cope with it. In the few instances where I was being directly insulted, I handled it like an adult and moved on.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Hueypilot

[Lord Ratner]

Will I be hanging out with good friends from work after duty hours? Sure, but not at the Club, not in the squadron. The new USAF that is afraid to let people interact as the flawed humans they are are simply going to create a culture of clicks and small groups…all being politely professional at work, but with no actual substance to their relationships, no true desire to see their community as a whole succeed, just to survive the work day…make sure to keep those feelings in…don't want to show your true self, if for no other reason that someone may take a minor offense to it.

That "culture" already exists within certain bases/squadrons. It's tragic.

[Boxhead]

That "culture" already exists within certain bases/squadrons. It's tragic.

Yeah, I know, and it is tragic. I don't think the true cost will be known for awhile though.

[Grabby]

Why should I or anyone else be subjected to a picture of your wife in a bikini? Why do you want other people to look at this picture? What message are you trying to send those you work with? You shouldn't wear a bikini to work, display calendars of models wearing bikinis or put up a picture of your wife in a bikini. It is clearly sexual in nature and not appropriate for the workplace.

However, the picture of the wife in the bikini is not that big of a deal. It is probably on the lowest end of the sexually offensive material scale. That is probably why the sq commander used a picture of a model in a bikini. It is not so offensive that it crosses the line of performing sexual harassment exercises by actually sexually harassing people. It is an example of a commander being creative and aggressive in the effort to prevent sexual harassment and assault. Nobody is arguing for paperwork or NJP for inappropriate material at work. Most are encouraging self policing, awareness and a better understanding of what is inappropriate at work. No clear line, but a clear objective: clean up the workplace by removing sexually offensive and inappropriate material. Like Tony Carr points out, putting the fake picture on a Lts desk in a predominately enlisted workplace was not smart.

JTDFC. If you truly are who you claim, the Air Force is ed. I don't say that lightly.

[Welcome Thrillho]

Liquid,

These methods insult our intelligence. All this exercise did was highlight the fact that now we have leaders who will break rules just to trap us. We all become hyper-sensitive and start mistaking real issues for another test. Now we have to be careful with what we say or how we act with what was "normal" last year isn't now, and A1C So-and-So is hyper-sensitive and empowered to challenge/report on what his supervisors and/or officers do and say with this kind of petty crap that only offends because the Air Force tells us so. Call me paranoid, but it's starting to feel like this "Cultural Revolution" is growing a new Red Guard.

Funny about your term "normal" people because as Helo stated earlier, a picture of your wife in a bikini wasn't abnormal a year ago. Now it's sexual harassment? WWI nose art? YGBFSM. You want to know why the forum is focusing on this petty subject? For one, it was the example used in the "sting". Two, it's so ridiculous yet telling of how there is no normal anymore when leadership decides to dictate on what normal is. Maybe the reason it took so long for someone to report it is because normal people wouldn't give a , and the one that reported did a good job paying attention in one of the many SAPR briefs to report what the Air Force told them was inappropriate. I'm sure Vance finance is just a thrill-a-minute to work in. A behavioral Cold War with each member watching his/her words and actions while monitoring their peers, and esprit d'corps about as sterile as my neutered dog... but at least sexual harassment/assault is solved.

It's insulting because we understand from hours of mindless PME that a good leader projects only positive support of orders passed down from his/her leadership, whether they believe it or not. I don't envy your situation in that:

1: You're buying, and that these methods of attacking this issue are spot-on.

2: You're not buying, but you're trying to lead us to buy when even YOU don't believe the bullshit.

Either way, we can see right through it will not pony up to that bar. You come to a non-retributional, anonymous forum and try to convince us that WE'RE the ones who are abnormal for recognizing the futility?

In reality, it is leadership focused on this, not us. We're just calling bullshit.

Good luck with retention.

[Spoo]

(Can I say head?)

Actually, you can't not say head.

[Beaver]

Hahaha. "Why should I be subjected to a picture of your wife?" What a victim. Did he delete that post? Doesn't work if 3 people have already quoted your bullshit.

[Liquid]

Hahaha. "Why should I be subjected to a picture of your wife?" What a victim. Did he delete that post? Doesn't work if 3 people have already quoted your bullshit.

Post 547. Ok "Beaver", where do you draw the line? Let's pretend you are an officer and you lead people. What do you tolerate, on the scale of porn played on a work computer to a poster of your favorite sports team? There is a line on what is acceptable. The discussion should be about where the line is. I think it is sexual in nature with no other purpose. A picture of a woman in a bikini, posted by someone who likes to say "check out my hot wife" is above the line. Runners World magazine cover is below it. That picture is about sports, not sex. Unless the same idiot who has the "hot wife" photo also has 25 pictures of scantily clad female "athletes". That would be obviously sexual in nature and should be corrected. Not with a firing squad or referral OPR. With direct feedback that he is being an idiot and to knock it off. Not direct feedback from a Chief, or CPTS Sq/CC, but from everyone who sees it. This whole discussion is about where the line is drawn. Many think it is right below porn because of the sexualized society we live in. I think the threshold is much lower, primarily because it is the workplace and has nothing/nothing to do with defending the nation, killing people of precisely executing your mission.

Did you read the IG report and CDI on the 55 FS? What did you think about the substantiated findings and punishment? What do you think about TSgt Smith's allegations and what would you say to her if you were her commander?

Come on "Beaver", are you up for really talking about this bullshit?

[Liquid]

Liquid, I don't agree with everything you say, but the maxim, ect ok fine. The picture of my wife and kids at the beach wearing what every ######ing American wears at the beach because we aren't Iran is not sexually offensive. You want leaders that combat sexual assault? I can't be one, because your rules and standards defy any ######ing common sense, that I don't even believe it when I hear it. I will fry the first person I see making unwanted sexual advances, slapping a female coworkers ass ect, but I can't keep up with the current list of what is sexually offensive I today's AF.

Any and all respect I had for you or anyone in leadership, is gone.

I was not clear on that post. By beloved WWII nose art, I meant that nose art means a lot to me. I wasn't being a smart ass. I think it is a shame that we are removing nose art from our culture. My grandfather flew B-17s in the Bloody 100th and I own nose art. I did not like directing the removal of "Camera Shy" at our wing, but I did it and moved on. It is now not appropriate. It was at the time, but now it is not. We should preserve it in our museums and as a proud part of our heritage, but not as a part of our current culture. Specifically, the nose art that was acceptable in WWII is not acceptable on our aircraft today. Or on posters in our workplaces. I think it is unfortunate. I absolutely do not feel the same regret when it comes to stupid ass word games, sexually offensive traditions or most of the bullshit that was taken off the walls during the "purge".

How many assaults do you believe can be attributed to a picture of my hot wife or others' less-hot wives? Serious question.

My bros (sorry for the offensive sexist term, just kidding, I'm not) are not normal people. This is a good thing.

None. That doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do. Do you think the Sweet Lemonade video at Balad contributed to the hostile work environment and sexual harassment experienced by TSgt Smith? How about the Doofer books and Fighter Pilot Song book she got from the vault? Do you agree with the findings in the CDI and IG report? Many of her allegations were unsubstantiated due to lack of evidence. Most of the substantiated allegations were for a failure of leadership. Were those commanders wrongly judged due to civilian pressures?

[Vprdrvr69]

I once witnessed an Afghany "terror suspect" going to town mounting his precious livestock! I thought it was hillarious but many might be appalled in our new PC culture. How is that for offensive sexual misconduct? To think that this behavior was viewed and recorded on USAF equipment. Since those "terrorists" certainly aren't going to listen to the aircrew, that is on a mission to exterminate them, perhaps our leadership can inform the Afghan populace that their behavior (during my workday) is offensive and must stop immediately. We should stop the war until this resolved!