More SARC briefings soon.

[Azimuth]

Marines, shitting on junior Enlisted since 1775.

[Warrior]

There might be some amount of good in all that, but I see a shitload of YGBSM. Yet another reason to be glad we're not marines.

[guineapigfury]

Over at Terminal Lance the consensus on the USMC changes is that they are making their people miserable on purpose to drive people out. That should save them some money on severance checks when the drawdown hits.

[panchbarnes]

Does anyone know how the Army and Marines are handling the recent elevation of SAPR issues?

https://www.armytimes.com/article/20131026/NEWS/310260001/Sex-assault-incidents-will-documented-every-NCOER-OER

"OERs and NCOERs will include comments from the raters about the efforts of the officer or NCO being rated to “foster a climate of dignity and respect” and to follow the Sexual Harassment/ Assault Response and Prevention Program.The memo states that raters should identify “significant actions or contributions” the soldier made to adhere to SHARP values, as well as any failures to do so."

[Warrior]

Interesting. I maintain that the only way to really have zero sexual assaults in the military is if we don't have anyone in the military. And we have been repeatedly told that zero is the only acceptable number. I just think that's awfully disingenuous. But don't tell the boss or the SAPR dudes that...

[pawnman]

I agree with you on the way we should lead (focus on mission, reject careerists, provide direct and honest feedback) but I don't agree that we don't have leaders like that anymore. They may be scarce in your "tribe" but they are not scarce everywhere.

I don't understand your point that we can't be effective leaders because we must be afraid of offending someone. Can you clarify? Look at it through the lens of the most recent high profile scandals (TSgt Smith, Lt Col Wilkerson and Lt Col Krusinski). Are you arguing that if we had allowed dynamic leadership, we could have swiftly and effectively dealt with the those who lacked the discipline to do the right thing? Did "my kind" tie the hands of the commanders at Shaw and Aviano, preventing the commanders from correcting in a meaningful way those who lacked discipline?

Why do you think we can't have dynamic leaders and commanders anymore?

Because senior leadership fires them when they oppose stupid ideas.

This whole witch-hunt isn't really serving the purpose it is intended to. You know what I think will happen? I think you will succeed beyond your wildest dreams in making the Air Force a purely professional organization, like any civilian company. When I worked for civilian companies (I joined the Air Force late, through OTS), I did not hang out with my co-workers. I did not mentor them, they did not mentor me. If I had a problem at home, I didn't say a word about it to my co-workers. None of my civilian co-workers, aside from my immediate boss, knew my wife was pregnant (and my boss only knew because I needed a day off for one of her medical appointments).

You say you want us to be super-professional...ask yourself if this is really the Air Force you want to build. Next time you see hand-wringing over fighter pilot retention, ask yourself why so many people are so eager to quit a job that most Americans would love to do for free, despite a 6-figure retention bonus. Why is morale so low? Well, you've got a whole group of people here that are telling you exactly why morale is so low. Shall I enumerate them for you?

1. One size fits all policies. Or, as I've said before, "If you can't do something smart, do something visible". The Wilkerson case and the Smith case generated some bad press for us in front of congress. The result is that we've done these sweeping inspections and destroyed a lot of heritage in the process, not because it will solve the problem but in the name of showing civilian leadership that we've done SOMETHING. How successful has it been, I wonder? Are reports of sexual assault up, or down, since the purges?

2. In line with number 1, senior leaders have destroyed any ability for SQ/CC and below to lead. When you impose these types of policies at the highest levels and tell every subordinate commander to get on-board, you aren't exactly leaving a lot of room left for leadership. It's not just the purges, although that's a big part of it. It's WG/CCs calling people out on the color of their socks or their gym bags at the gym. It's fostering a culture where everyone is equal, everyone should call everyone out, that destroys any CGOs ability to lead and command respect from the enlisted force...because the enlisted force is now cleared hot to call out officers on any infraction, no matter how small. I used to see this as a problem with shirts in the deployed location, but in appears senior leadership likes the model so much we've brought it home.

3. Unrelated to SAPR, but the level of queep just continues to grow as we do more and more useless things in the name of "training". We also seem to have no real long-term plan when it comes to things like RAP, flying hours, budgets. I get that some of that is driven by the lack of a budget from our civilian leadership...but I spent September flying 8.0s every other day to "burn" our flight hours, only to be stood down for three weeks in October because we didn't have flight hours. Really?

4. Finally, the purges and the high-profile cases are creating a Cold War-era attitude of distrust, where the people who work and fight together are now constantly suspicious of one another for fear that a wayward joke or misplaced word will end their career with an accusation of sexual harassment, real or not. I know what the company line is, but from a crew dog perspective, we all know that if you are even accused of sexual assault or sexual harassment, your career is over, no matter what the investigation concludes. This is not an environment conducive to the open communication that senior leadership keeps telling us we need for mission accomplishment, suicide prevention, DUI prevention, keeping someone from becoming and active shooter...every interaction where I talk about my problems now leaves me vulnerable to my colleagues, so I'm better off just keeping my problems to myself.

You are right about changing the culture, I'm just not sure you're going to get the culture you want.

Edited November 4, 2013 by pawnman

[hindsight2020]

Fuck, we're there. I'm already off base, off duty, off uniform, SOP. Nothing good ever comes out of sponsoring host wing functions or socializing of any kind on base, which my family already boycotts by default.. See how that unintended consequences bit works? Just doing my 9-5 jerb, boss.....

Drinking or socializing inside the fence, are y'all fucking new? LOL

Now let's all sing the NEW Air Force Song everybody! Sure got a catchy tune to it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-gqMpZroy8

Workin' 9 to 5

What a way to a livin'

Barely gettin' by

it's all takin'

and no givin'...............

[disgruntledemployee]

I'm getting the sense that you are a disgruntled employee.

https://blogs.hbr.org/2012/07/are-you-creating-disgruntled-e/

Some of the pros say disgruntled employees and employers need to start trusting each other. Others say you need to protect your "company" from the damage disgruntled employees will do. I think I get why you don't trust "my kind", but I don't know why "my kind" doesn't trust you. Can you explain?

If you think my BODN name means something about me, you are mistaken. Think of more as a representative for the common AF aviator.

Ever see a sq commander be allowed to take care of any issue how they see fit? "Hey George, thanks for telling me about that airman that got in trouble, I'm sure you got it covered." Mark that as shit that Gp/CCs don't say. I could go on, but I've got the power of fellow BODNs that can chime in and do better. Probably experienced it.

Out.

[Spoo]

If you think my BODN name means something about me, you are mistaken. Think of more as a representative for the common AF aviator.

Ever see a sq commander be allowed to take care of any issue how they see fit? "Hey George, thanks for telling me about that airman that got in trouble, I'm sure you got it covered." Mark that as shit that Gp/CCs don't say. I could go on, but I've got the power of fellow BODNs that can chime in and do better. Probably experienced it.

Out.

Sorry, I think you're off the mark on this one. As a Sq/CC I was EXPECTED to take care of issues as I saw fit. I believe my OG's words were something to the effect of, "You're here for a reason, I'm not doing your job for you..." It's called G-series brother. Now, maybe my experience was unique, but I doubt it. There is good leadership out their; I'm willing to bet it's more prevelant than bad. But shit, what do I know?

Edited November 4, 2013 by Spoo

[brabus]

Liquid, Pawnman summed it up quite well. That's a pretty damn good rundown on the pulse of the average warfighter. The only SQ/CC's I've seen truly lead (in the sense I honestly think senior leadership wants, but won't admit publicly or through policy) are the ones who have stopped giving a shit about advancing in the Air Force. They're not given the chance, but they take it anyways because fuck it, it's most likely their last assignment. That's sad; guys should be able to be real leaders and then continue advancing and maintain that real leadership into the senior ranks. That track is very much be exception these days. What Pawnman summed up is a good snapshot of why guys with 4-6 years left on their ADSC are talking about the best way to prep for an Airline career, making contacts in the Guard/Reserve, etc. Why in the hell are guys doing their "dream job" planning an exit strategy so far in advance? Senior leadership has let them down and castrated the warfighter at all levels. I'm not saying it's specifically you, but it certainly is those around you. People will only tolerate so much bullshit; at some point the feeling, "the bullshit is worth it because the flying job is awesome" ceases...it's alarming that this point is happening at only 6-9 years into many peoples' careers. You can call them whiners, pussies, etc...or you can listen and take it as honest no-shit feedback from the guys "in the trenches."

[Danger41]

Fuck, we're there. I'm already off base, off duty, off uniform, SOP. Nothing good ever comes out of sponsoring host wing functions or socializing of any kind on base, which my family already boycotts by default.. See how that unintended consequences bit works? Just doing my 9-5 jerb, boss.....

Drinking or socializing inside the fence, are y'all fucking new? LOL

That's definitely the saddest part to me about the whole military. The days of building espirit de corps at the O Club on a Friday night are gone. It's just plain stupid to get wasted at the club when the SF is sitting right outside waiting for you to do something while drunk and bust you - ending your career. The days of everyone looking out for each other, handling shit at the proper levels, and getting the j-o-b done are long gone. I think that's more of a societal thing than a military specific thing, but the military is just a microcosm of society. Truly sad.

And I believe there are some good leaders out there. But like Brabus said, they are often the ones that know this is the end of the line for them. It seems that often those that are trying to continue on are some of the biggest chodes I've ever met. Not trying to be passive aggressive to Liquid or other O-6+ on this board, but I know even they have seen it.

Last point, I have a lot of respect for Liquid for having the balls to get in the mix with the likes of us knuckle dragging mouth breathers, take the spears, and articulate his position when he knows he will be shat upon mightily for it.

[Liquid]

If you think my BODN name means something about me, you are mistaken. Think of more as a representative for the common AF aviator.

Ever see a sq commander be allowed to take care of any issue how they see fit? "Hey George, thanks for telling me about that airman that got in trouble, I'm sure you got it covered." Mark that as shit that Gp/CCs don't say. I could go on, but I've got the power of fellow BODNs that can chime in and do better. Probably experienced it.

Out.

It isn't just your BODN name, it is your constant message. I get that you don't trust senior leadership. Why do you think they don't trust you?

Squadron commanders are expected to take care of most discipline issues. Some convening authorities and superior commanders reserve judgement on some offenses, like the most recent guidance on sexual assault. The decision to proceed or not proceed with NJP or UCMJ now resides with the SCMCA, not the squadron commander. Decisions to not prosecute sexual assault go to the general court martial convening authority (NAF or MAJCOM CC). Almost all of the other offenses are expected to be handled by the immediate commander. Superior commanders cannot exert undue command influence on their subordinate commanders. If they disagree with how a subordinate commander is handling an issue, they can lift the authority to discipline to their level, but they cannot tell the subordinate commander what to do.

Of course command decisions and judgment are assessed by superior commanders. That is why they want to know what happened and what you did about it. It protects against the rare, but very damaging tendency to take care of friends or cover things up for selfish reasons.

The AF is going to 360 degree evaluations for commanders and senior leaders. We just finished the first round of GO assessments, which were Likert scale answers to questions about integrity, abuse of authority, wasting resources, judgement, etc. There were also open answer blocks where you could write any specific feedback and stratify the GO's performance. All GOs were assessed by their peers, subordinate and superior GOs. The chief's plan is to push these surveys down to the 0-6 and squadron commander level, to use these subordinate and peer surveys to evaluate how well the commander leads. This will be a good thing.

In my experience with common AF aviators, your perspective and attitude are not representative of them. Kind of like Frank the Tank going streaking. Not as many people are running with you as you think.

Liquid, Pawnman summed it up quite well. That's a pretty damn good rundown on the pulse of the average warfighter. The only SQ/CC's I've seen truly lead (in the sense I honestly think senior leadership wants, but won't admit publicly or through policy) are the ones who have stopped giving a shit about advancing in the Air Force. They're not given the chance, but they take it anyways because ###### it, it's most likely their last assignment. That's sad; guys should be able to be real leaders and then continue advancing and maintain that real leadership into the senior ranks. That track is very much be exception these days. What Pawnman summed up is a good snapshot of why guys with 4-6 years left on their ADSC are talking about the best way to prep for an Airline career, making contacts in the Guard/Reserve, etc. Why in the hell are guys doing their "dream job" planning an exit strategy so far in advance? Senior leadership has let them down and castrated the warfighter at all levels. I'm not saying it's specifically you, but it certainly is those around you. People will only tolerate so much bullshit; at some point the feeling, "the bullshit is worth it because the flying job is awesome" ceases...it's alarming that this point is happening at only 6-9 years into many peoples' careers. You can call them whiners, pussies, etc...or you can listen and take it as honest no-shit feedback from the guys "in the trenches."

How have warfighters been castrated at all levels?

[nsplayr]

The AF is going to 360 degree evaluations for commanders and senior leaders. We just finished the first round of GO assessments, which were Likert scale answers to questions about integrity, abuse of authority, wasting resources, judgement, etc. There were also open answer blocks where you could write any specific feedback and stratify the GO's performance. All GOs were assessed by their peers, subordinate and superior GOs. The chief's plan is to push these surveys down to the 0-6 and squadron commander level, to use these subordinate and peer surveys to evaluate how well the commander leads. This will be a good thing.

This sounds great...so great in fact why don't we do it for all officers? This is the kind of thing that's totally within the Chief's purview and would certainly lend itself to a huge positive legacy. You'd find out real quick which middle-of-the-pack-on-paper guys are busting their ass and running the squadron and which shinny pennies are self-centered d-bags or just coasting by on previous high strats. Like you said, peer reviews are often illuminating and if I was a Commander at any level I'd want that information in deciding how to rack and stack my troops.

How have warfighters been castrated at all levels?

This is one charge that I don't agree with...haven't seen it that much in our MAJCOM. Some leaders are much better than others at decentralized execution (i.e. "micro information" is exactly the same as micro management FYI) but I've seen good combat leadership both at the squadron level, group level and wing level. The current AFSOC OG and WG equivalent leaders in Afghanistan are solid; didn't get up in our shit too much and had a strong emphasis on accomplishing the mission. Came by the TOC and congratulated us on a successful combat mission rather than to yell at some LT about a baseball hat (gasp!) found stored inside a life support locker...it was refreshing and awesome.

My biggest issue with the way we're being led, since I've been around at least and in my community, is poor management. I'm not sure how much of this is coming from on high (i.e. 3-star + and Congress), but just hands-down piss poor management of people.

Leadership to me has a lot to do with personality and character and not everyone is George Patton nor needs to be. I can handle people who are average leaders and good managers, we'll get the mission done and there's plenty of other layers of leadership within a flying squadron. But competent, passable management can and should be taught before an officer is a SQ/CC or above and that has been really lacking in many, many cases.

Edited November 5, 2013 by nsplayr

[ThreeHoler]

The AF is going to 360 degree evaluations for commanders and senior leaders. We just finished the first round of GO assessments, which were Likert scale answers to questions about integrity, abuse of authority, wasting resources, judgement, etc. There were also open answer blocks where you could write any specific feedback and stratify the GO's performance. All GOs were assessed by their peers, subordinate and superior GOs. The chief's plan is to push these surveys down to the 0-6 and squadron commander level, to use these subordinate and peer surveys to evaluate how well the commander leads. This will be a good thing.

Good. Honest feedback is good...especially since we are all guilty of thinking we're better than we really are.

In my experience with common AF aviators, your perspective and attitude are not representative of them. Kind of like Frank the Tank going streaking. Not as many people are running with you as you think.

As I have gotten older, I have gained a lot of perspective about my various commanders...I have had good commanders and great commanders. When I read what many people younger than me post on here...I feel completely out of touch with those posts. Life ain't great in the trenches...but it sure ain't as bad as many on here paint it to be, at least in my little corner of the world.

[Liquid]

1. One size fits all policies. Or, as I've said before, "If you can't do something smart, do something visible". The Wilkerson case and the Smith case generated some bad press for us in front of congress. The result is that we've done these sweeping inspections and destroyed a lot of heritage in the process, not because it will solve the problem but in the name of showing civilian leadership that we've done SOMETHING. How successful has it been, I wonder? Are reports of sexual assault up, or down, since the purges?

2. In line with number 1, senior leaders have destroyed any ability for SQ/CC and below to lead. When you impose these types of policies at the highest levels and tell every subordinate commander to get on-board, you aren't exactly leaving a lot of room left for leadership. It's not just the purges, although that's a big part of it. It's WG/CCs calling people out on the color of their socks or their gym bags at the gym. It's fostering a culture where everyone is equal, everyone should call everyone out, that destroys any CGOs ability to lead and command respect from the enlisted force...because the enlisted force is now cleared hot to call out officers on any infraction, no matter how small. I used to see this as a problem with shirts in the deployed location, but in appears senior leadership likes the model so much we've brought it home.

3. Unrelated to SAPR, but the level of queep just continues to grow as we do more and more useless things in the name of "training". We also seem to have no real long-term plan when it comes to things like RAP, flying hours, budgets. I get that some of that is driven by the lack of a budget from our civilian leadership...but I spent September flying 8.0s every other day to "burn" our flight hours, only to be stood down for three weeks in October because we didn't have flight hours. Really?

4. Finally, the purges and the high-profile cases are creating a Cold War-era attitude of distrust, where the people who work and fight together are now constantly suspicious of one another for fear that a wayward joke or misplaced word will end their career with an accusation of sexual harassment, real or not. I know what the company line is, but from a crew dog perspective, we all know that if you are even accused of sexual assault or sexual harassment, your career is over, no matter what the investigation concludes. This is not an environment conducive to the open communication that senior leadership keeps telling us we need for mission accomplishment, suicide prevention, DUI prevention, keeping someone from becoming and active shooter...every interaction where I talk about my problems now leaves me vulnerable to my colleagues, so I'm better off just keeping my problems to myself.

You are right about changing the culture, I'm just not sure you're going to get the culture you want.

Are you finished? Well allow me to retort...

1. We will be able to correct the purge over-reactions and bad decisions on heritage. They didn't burn the art. Nose art that was painted over can be painted again. Family pictures and magazines will come back. But the culture change will work and it will lead to a reduction in sexual assaults, and a reduction in the restricted reporting caused by mistrusting leadership. It isn't the only strategy, but it will help. We overcame racism and sexism. Our Air Force used to argue passionately that blacks, women and homosexuals couldn't serve. They were wrong. We will overcome the sexualized and inappropriate culture that tolerates sexually offensive material, sexual innuendos and sexually offensive jokes. It isn't very widespread in our Air Force now and it won't exist much longer. I have spoken to many, many female Airmen and officers who are very happy about this culture change. They think it will make a difference. I know you don't agree, but we will be ok. Pilots fled for the airlines in the mid to late 90s, when the sex traditions were at their peak and morale was high. Airline hiring is the biggest factor for retention, not word games, jokes, songs and porn.

2. Gym bags and sock colors are red herrings. They are rare examples of bad leadership on stupid shit. Put an Airman or NCO or lower ranking officer in their place for correcting you on stupid shit. Be careful about where you draw the line. Wearing a sexually offensive tee shirt to the gym (one that says "F*ck You" on it for example) should get you direct feedback from everyone. I've seen that shirt and corrected it. And nothing destroys a CGO's ability to lead and earn respect from the enlisted force than the selective enforcement of simple AFIs. Bitching to the finance Airman, crew chief or the 1CO about their professional failures while your sunglasses are on your head, your sleeves are rolled up, jacket is completely unzipped and your left arm has a Steeler's patch on it doesn't work. It will be difficult to have a conversation with a young Airman maintainer about the importance of discipline and following tech orders when you sport a Robin Olds mustache, are too cheap or lazy to get new boots or sport a fat dip in your lip.

3. Got it. Flying circles for 8.0 hours for no reason is ridiculous. You'll bitch about being told what color socks to wear, but when it comes to executing orders to train with your programmed flying hours, you waste fuel and flight hours to fly in circles. Do we have to give you the specific guidance about how to be good stewards of taxpayer money by turning fuel into currency and proficiency? The crazy thing is if you don't need to spend the money, it actually goes to someone who does. When you spend wastefully at the end of the FY, you are burning the opportunity for someone else to use those precious hours or ops/mx funds. And your current end of year spending actually has nothing to do with next years program. It has already been programmed and will be more informed with continuing resolution limits than it will be by last year's closeout.

4. A wayward word joke or misplace word is not sexual harassment or a hostile work environment. It won't ruin a career. Don't be so dramatic. Failure to correct the deviations (you know, be an officer), retaliating against those who complain, or constantly misplacing words and jokes, will rightfully ruin your career. Just have the courage to do the right thing, regardless of the consequences. If the right thing is stopping stupid shit from happening, then stop the stupid shit. I can't wait for this mystical airman or chief who tells me what color gym bag I can carry says something to me. You will need to convince people that it was the right thing to do. Defending porn in the vault or on the network, sexual innuendos at work and sexual assault as the right thing will be very difficult. Gym bags, colorful shoes or socks won't.

What we need is an officer corps willing and able to lead our Air Force into combat and at home, with the resources, policies, talent and missions we are given, not just the ones we want. We need officers who can motivate, build camaraderie, and lead people to do things they may not be all that willing to do. We need our pilot and crewmember officers to lead the Air Force, not complain about shoe clerks, socks and songs. We are at war for f*ck's sake.

[magnetfreezer]

1. We will be able to correct the purge over-reactions and bad decisions on heritage.

Maybe the nose art - you can't rebuild a culture/attitude that quickly. Reference the many pleas for club membership at most bases; generally the CGOC, FSS or leadership will try to make the club the "in" spot to hang out, have camaraderie, etc. They don't realize that the clubs used to be lively; after the AF decided to crush/discourage alcohol, flyers built their own bars and non-flyers headed off-base to drink. The overreaction seems to have corrected somewhat, but the damage is done.

2. Gym bags and sock colors are red herrings. They are rare examples of bad leadership on stupid shit. Put an Airman or NCO or lower ranking officer in their place for correcting you on stupid shit.

Most guys on here would. We bring up those 2 things because when we do "put someone in their place", the O-6/O-5 level crushes the O-3 level for it.

Bitching to the finance Airman, crew chief or the 1CO about their professional failures while your sunglasses are on your head, your sleeves are rolled up, jacket is completely unzipped and your left arm has a Steeler's patch on it doesn't work. It will be difficult to have a conversation with a young Airman maintainer about the importance of discipline and following tech orders when you sport a Robin Olds mustache, are too cheap or lazy to get new boots or sport a fat dip in your lip.

Maybe your MX experience has been different - most of the chiefs/specs (including the ones who follow TOs) have boots covered with hydro and a dip in as their sleeves are up to their elbows in an engine cowling.

The crazy thing is if you don't need to spend the money, it actually goes to someone who does. When you spend wastefully at the end of the FY, you are burning the opportunity for someone else to use those precious hours or ops/mx funds. And your current end of year spending actually has nothing to do with next years program. It has already been programmed and will be more informed with continuing resolution limits than it will be by last year's closeout.

How can we move the hours/money around to next year? There are many squadrons that would have loved to do this the first 2 weeks of October, or saved what hours they could last winter to prep for sequestration.

We need our pilot and crewmember officers to lead the Air Force, not complain about shoe clerks, socks and songs. We are at war for f*ck's sake.

Conversely, the AF needs to see senior leadership leading us to war (which is mostly the case right now) instead of complaining/focusing on socks and songs.

Like many have said on this thread already, we respect you coming on here and sharing/participating in the conversation. The MC-12 thread seems to be going much better; posters have identified shortfalls/unintended consequences not visible from the Pentagon and instituted possible corrective action. Those on this thread are trying to point out what is really happening as well - it is certainly HHQ's prerogative to dictate what will happen, but that doesn't change the truth of what it causes on the ground or what it will cause in terms of retention, morale, culture, etc.

[TAMInated]

I did not like directing the removal of "Camera Shy" at our wing, but I did it and moved on. It is now not appropriate. It was at the time, but now it is not.

Nose art that was painted over can be painted again.

So nose art was ok but it's not anymore but it might be again someday? Add this to the long and distinguished list of reasons I left the organization I once loved before people like you started to ruin it.

I get that you don't trust senior leadership. Why do you think they don't trust you?

Are you understanding yet why many don't trust senior "leadership"? Serious question.

Edited November 5, 2013 by TAMInated

[HU&W]

What we need is an officer corps willing and able to lead our Air Force into combat and at home, with the resources, policies, talent and missions we are given, not just the ones we want. We need officers who can motivate, build camaraderie, and lead people to do things they may not be all that willing to do. We need our pilot and crewmember officers to lead the Air Force, not complain about shoe clerks, socks and songs. We are at war for f*ck's sake.

Good post. The only way we're going to get the officer corps you describe is if Senior Officers start letting Junior Officers be officers. NCO's don't outrank Lt's, but down in the trenches it almost seems that way. Ever see a Capt get crushed my a MSgt? I have, and it wasn't over socks. Part of that is the Capt's fault, but most of the blame for this type of disintegration in the chain of command falls on the FGO's who value the opinions of their peer enlisted (those with similar time in service and shared experiences) over officers junior to them. Don't get me wrong, CGO's make lots of mistakes and need to be corrected, coached, and mentored by their superiors. CGO's also absolutely need the mentorship and help of SNCO's, but I fear we may have taken it to far. Our enforced erosion of the chain of command is even bleeding through to our Airmen, folks that have been in only a year or two. When I was an Airman, we lived in fear and almost awe of our Lt's and Capt. Today, not so much.

Edited to add: I'm a huge fan of a simplified OPR that contains simply the list of go/no go standards like PT score, an honest summary narrative of a 360 feedback, a few bullet lines of accomplishments throughout the rating period, a commander's strat by peer group (___ of ___ in the _____ year group) , and a senior rater's strat by peer group. If that's similar to what you're implementing for GO's, I'd love to see that roll out to the entire officer corps.

Edited November 5, 2013 by HU&W

[pawnman]

Are you finished? Well allow me to retort...

1. We will be able to correct the purge over-reactions and bad decisions on heritage. They didn't burn the art. Nose art that was painted over can be painted again. Family pictures and magazines will come back. But the culture change will work and it will lead to a reduction in sexual assaults, and a reduction in the restricted reporting caused by mistrusting leadership. It isn't the only strategy, but it will help. We overcame racism and sexism. Our Air Force used to argue passionately that blacks, women and homosexuals couldn't serve. They were wrong. We will overcome the sexualized and inappropriate culture that tolerates sexually offensive material, sexual innuendos and sexually offensive jokes. It isn't very widespread in our Air Force now and it won't exist much longer. I have spoken to many, many female Airmen and officers who are very happy about this culture change. They think it will make a difference. I know you don't agree, but we will be ok. Pilots fled for the airlines in the mid to late 90s, when the sex traditions were at their peak and morale was high. Airline hiring is the biggest factor for retention, not word games, jokes, songs and porn.

2. Gym bags and sock colors are red herrings. They are rare examples of bad leadership on stupid shit. Put an Airman or NCO or lower ranking officer in their place for correcting you on stupid shit. Be careful about where you draw the line. Wearing a sexually offensive tee shirt to the gym (one that says "F*ck You" on it for example) should get you direct feedback from everyone. I've seen that shirt and corrected it. And nothing destroys a CGO's ability to lead and earn respect from the enlisted force than the selective enforcement of simple AFIs. Bitching to the finance Airman, crew chief or the 1CO about their professional failures while your sunglasses are on your head, your sleeves are rolled up, jacket is completely unzipped and your left arm has a Steeler's patch on it doesn't work. It will be difficult to have a conversation with a young Airman maintainer about the importance of discipline and following tech orders when you sport a Robin Olds mustache, are too cheap or lazy to get new boots or sport a fat dip in your lip.

3. Got it. Flying circles for 8.0 hours for no reason is ridiculous. You'll bitch about being told what color socks to wear, but when it comes to executing orders to train with your programmed flying hours, you waste fuel and flight hours to fly in circles. Do we have to give you the specific guidance about how to be good stewards of taxpayer money by turning fuel into currency and proficiency? The crazy thing is if you don't need to spend the money, it actually goes to someone who does. When you spend wastefully at the end of the FY, you are burning the opportunity for someone else to use those precious hours or ops/mx funds. And your current end of year spending actually has nothing to do with next years program. It has already been programmed and will be more informed with continuing resolution limits than it will be by last year's closeout.

4. A wayward word joke or misplace word is not sexual harassment or a hostile work environment. It won't ruin a career. Don't be so dramatic. Failure to correct the deviations (you know, be an officer), retaliating against those who complain, or constantly misplacing words and jokes, will rightfully ruin your career. Just have the courage to do the right thing, regardless of the consequences. If the right thing is stopping stupid shit from happening, then stop the stupid shit. I can't wait for this mystical airman or chief who tells me what color gym bag I can carry says something to me. You will need to convince people that it was the right thing to do. Defending porn in the vault or on the network, sexual innuendos at work and sexual assault as the right thing will be very difficult. Gym bags, colorful shoes or socks won't.

What we need is an officer corps willing and able to lead our Air Force into combat and at home, with the resources, policies, talent and missions we are given, not just the ones we want. We need officers who can motivate, build camaraderie, and lead people to do things they may not be all that willing to do. We need our pilot and crewmember officers to lead the Air Force, not complain about shoe clerks, socks and songs. We are at war for f*ck's sake.

Number 1, I guess we'll see. You clearly have a different perspective than I do. I get the culture change, and I sort of get the over-reaction...certainly gets the message out there. I'm not sure how it relates to drinking in the vault, after a night flight. You seem to have more faith it will shift back than I do. I haven't exactly seen a lot of AF policies become more relaxed in my time in the AF. The question is, how much damage will be done to squadron cohesion and camraderie before that happens? And when the beer light turns back on, how many people will be willing to stick around for it?

Number 2 was an actual example of the 1-star WG/CC specifically calling out someone with colored trim on an otherwise all-black gym bag. Maybe senior leadership doesn't see it, but wing and group leadership ARE focusing on these things, not just the enlisted force.

As for number 3, we received very specific guidance about not only burning our own flight hours, but all the flight hours for several other bases who couldn't make it happen. There's only so much proficiency and training that can be done when I'm flying around at max endurance so I can get another 0.1 for the man. Defensive maneuvering, low altitude training, even some of the weapons employment stuff goes out the window when I can't get above .72 Mach because I need every drop of fuel. But the bigger issue was that immediately after burning those hours, we stood down the squadron for about two weeks. It's very similar to the problem I've had since I was a 2LT with the way the Air Force buys big screen TVs and ostrich leather chairs in September, but we can't afford toner for the mission planning printers in March.

Number 4, I doubt any airman or chief will say anything to a senior leader. I've seen the same tactic in the Deid that's now being deployed at home...they go after people their immediate boss outranks. Never seen the story about the guy who was removed as chief of OGV home-station because a SSgt didn't like his response to a uniform correction and went VFR-direct to the SSgt's LtCol SQ/CC for backup? We're not making this shit up, Liquid. It happens. Daily. Maybe not in your world, but just as we appreciate the perspective you bring, we're trying to highlight what gets heard down here at the bottom. What we are hearing is STS, 69, etc, are all sure-fire ways to get paperwork, and as a result, end your career. We're also hearing that sock color, gym bags, and the like are important, because that's what our wing leadership is enforcing. I feel like there is a very, very real disconnect between Gen Welsh telling me to stop doing things if they are stupid and how that is executed on the front lines.

Edited November 5, 2013 by pawnman

[brabus]

How have warfighters been castrated at all levels?

What I mean is O-5 and below are rarely given a real chance to demonstrate the type of leadership and officership that you're demanding here. The problem is you and the rest of senior leadership is out of touch with how it REALLY is a few levels below HAF. Capts through Lt Col's are destroyed if they actually use real leadership and judgement. If you don't tow the party line, you get crushed. I totally get it that there are great WG/CCs, OG/CCs and SQ/CCs...I'm not arguing those individuals don't exist. The problem is they are the minority and in many facets of the AF at the Wing and below level (the levels I see on a normal basis), we as a service are plagued with self-serving, tow-the-line d-bags that demonstrate terrible leadership (and by that I mean zero), lacking interpersonal skills, don't even attempt to use common sense/judgement, etc.

I want to see people be allowed, and trusted by senior leadership, to exercise the exact leadership, officership and judgement that you are demanding here. Perhaps we really want similar things in this arena, but the problem is you say, "well why don't you do it?" and my response is, "because I want to keep my job...for now." Senior leadership has zero SA that the good qualities above are stiffed and stamped out a large portion of the time. It's all CYA, tow-the-line, don't rock the boat OR exercise good leadership, officership and judgement...then subsequently get burned at the stake for making choice 2 instead of choice 1. Empower the CGO and FGO level to do these things and the organization will be much better for it. Continue to allow this cancer of shitty leadership, crushing a CGO because he told an NCO to knock it off, prioritizing (insert bullshit) over mission, etc. and you will never have the AF at the lower levels that you falsely think exists or could exist in the current climate. Changing organizational climate is difficult, but beating us over the nugget with "get on board or get out" is not the answer.

[JarheadBoom]

3. Got it. Flying circles for 8.0 hours for no reason is ridiculous. You'll bitch about being told what color socks to wear, but when it comes to executing orders to train with your programmed flying hours, you waste fuel and flight hours to fly in circles. Do we have to give you the specific guidance about how to be good stewards of taxpayer money by turning fuel into currency and proficiency? The crazy thing is if you don't need to spend the money, it actually goes to someone who does. When you spend wastefully at the end of the FY, you are burning the opportunity for someone else to use those precious hours or ops/mx funds. And your current end of year spending actually has nothing to do with next years program. It has already been programmed and will be more informed with continuing resolution limits than it will be by last year's closeout.

I don't know pawnman, but I'd be willing to bet your paycheck that he didn't unilaterally decide that turning JP-8 into noise for 8.0, with no value added, was an appropriate course of action. As directed.

Guidance from our WG leadership last FY re: scheduled flight hours:

Fly the allotted flight time, no matter what.

Didn't matter if scheduled activities canceled, and the scheduled 4.3hr mission turned into 4.3 of pattern-only. Didn't matter if only 2 of 5 scheduled pilots were able to make it in due to __________. Didn't matter if the only 2 pilots aboard were long-time KC-10 pilots, who both can (and did) repeatedly put the jet down well within the first 1/3rd of the runway, smoothly enough to hear the freakin' MLG tires chirping as they spun up*. Fly the allotted flight time, no matter what. The only excuses permitted were MX issues, and those were Monday-morning QB'd repeatedly.

When currency is regained and proficiency is demonstrated/assured in the training items available in a KC-10 pattern-only sortie, any further flight time is merely wasting fuel, flight hours, airframe and engine time, and tires. Yet ACs were specifically NOT PERMITTED to justify an early return by stating "training complete", due to a blanket policy that allowed no wiggle room for DOs to tell WG leadership, "Hey sir, this was an experienced crew, who all have their shit in one sock, and don't need to do a dozen T&Gs each solely to burn the hours. Let's save those hours for the handful of new Lts who definitely need the time for value-added training". I'm sure others, in other communitites, have similar stories.

* For those who don't know, the -10 is a fickle bitch that will audibly heckle pilots that don't get the touchdown just right, with a cacophony of rattles, squeaks, and other noises from the various interior panels, cabinets, galley, douche booms, pax, etc. Conversely, she will reward a perfect touchdown by letting you hear the MLG tires chirp, 65ft behind and 18ft below you. STANDARD DISCLAIMER: Non-pilot observation.

edit: strikeout

Edited November 5, 2013 by JarheadBoom

[Liquid]

So nose art was ok but it's not anymore but it might be again someday? Add this to the long and distinguished list of reasons I left the organization I once loved before people like you started to ruin it.

Are you understanding yet why many don't trust senior "leadership"? Serious question.

Give me a break. You keep a list of reasons why you left, and add things that have happened since you left to rationalize your separation? Good thing you got out before it all got ruined. At least you get to continue bitching about things that don't affect you.

Camera Shy came down because it was not appropriate on current aircraft. Preserving and honoring history and heritage are different than putting dated traditions (sexy, half naked women in suggestive poses) on today's aircraft or buildings. This nose art was not original and it was not destroyed, it was moved. I don't think it will ever be ok to paint Camera Shy or Memphis Bell on a modern AF aircraft and I am ok with that. Times and accepted traditions change. Our museums and our heritage should/should include WWII nose art. But we need to be careful using copies of the nose art in ways that present an unprofessional image that unnecessarily glorifies sexuality. Lining the halls of an ops squadron or the Pentagon with 25 prints of sexy nose art send more than a "we love our heritage" message. It sends a "look at all these naked ladies" message that is unprofessional, unacceptable and unwise. We should protect the museum history and not get too upset about seeing the nose art. But we need to be careful and smart about how we use it to glorify and encourage sexuality in the work place.

What I mean is O-5 and below are rarely given a real chance to demonstrate the type of leadership and officership that you're demanding here. The problem is you and the rest of senior leadership is out of touch with how it REALLY is a few levels below HAF. Capts through Lt Col's are destroyed if they actually use real leadership and judgement. If you don't tow the party line, you get crushed. I totally get it that there are great WG/CCs, OG/CCs and SQ/CCs...I'm not arguing those individuals don't exist. The problem is they are the minority and in many facets of the AF at the Wing and below level (the levels I see on a normal basis), we as a service are plagued with self-serving, tow-the-line d-bags that demonstrate terrible leadership (and by that I mean zero), lacking interpersonal skills, don't even attempt to use common sense/judgement, etc.

I want to see people be allowed, and trusted by senior leadership, to exercise the exact leadership, officership and judgement that you are demanding here. Perhaps we really want similar things in this arena, but the problem is you say, "well why don't you do it?" and my response is, "because I want to keep my job...for now." Senior leadership has zero SA that the good qualities above are stiffed and stamped out a large portion of the time. It's all CYA, tow-the-line, don't rock the boat OR exercise good leadership, officership and judgement...then subsequently get burned at the stake for making choice 2 instead of choice 1. Empower the CGO and FGO level to do these things and the organization will be much better for it. Continue to allow this cancer of shitty leadership, crushing a CGO because he told an NCO to knock it off, prioritizing (insert bullshit) over mission, etc. and you will never have the AF at the lower levels that you falsely think exists or could exist in the current climate. Changing organizational climate is difficult, but beating us over the nugget with "get on board or get out" is not the answer.

So how is the good dude, who knows what right looks like and knows something needs to change, but is afraid to do the right thing because he wants to keep his job for now different than the CYA tow-the-line, don't rock the boat self-serving jerk you can't stand? Pick the righteous fight and fight. Be empowered to do the right thing, like helping the NCO understand the time and place to correct a senior officer. Let the Sq/CC know how you think it is bullshit that he is cracking down on you for correct the out of line NCO or Chief. Courage involves more than risking your life. I don't understand how you can criticize the careerists and those who "don't rock the boat", and do the exact same thing yourself.

Number 1, I guess we'll see. You clearly have a different perspective than I do. I get the culture change, and I sort of get the over-reaction...certainly gets the message out there. I'm not sure how it relates to drinking in the vault, after a night flight. You seem to have more faith it will shift back than I do. I haven't exactly seen a lot of AF policies become more relaxed in my time in the AF. The question is, how much damage will be done to squadron cohesion and camraderie before that happens? And when the beer light turns back on, how many people will be willing to stick around for it?

Number 2 was an actual example of the 1-star WG/CC specifically calling out someone with colored trim on an otherwise all-black gym bag. Maybe senior leadership doesn't see it, but wing and group leadership ARE focusing on these things, not just the enlisted force.

As for number 3, we received very specific guidance about not only burning our own flight hours, but all the flight hours for several other bases who couldn't make it happen. There's only so much proficiency and training that can be done when I'm flying around at max endurance so I can get another 0.1 for the man. Defensive maneuvering, low altitude training, even some of the weapons employment stuff goes out the window when I can't get above .72 Mach because I need every drop of fuel. But the bigger issue was that immediately after burning those hours, we stood down the squadron for about two weeks. It's very similar to the problem I've had since I was a 2LT with the way the Air Force buys big screen TVs and ostrich leather chairs in September, but we can't afford toner for the mission planning printers in March.

Number 4, I doubt any airman or chief will say anything to a senior leader. I've seen the same tactic in the Deid that's now being deployed at home...they go after people their immediate boss outranks. Never seen the story about the guy who was removed as chief of OGV home-station because a SSgt didn't like his response to a uniform correction and went VFR-direct to the SSgt's LtCol SQ/CC for backup? We're not making this shit up, Liquid. It happens. Daily. Maybe not in your world, but just as we appreciate the perspective you bring, we're trying to highlight what gets heard down here at the bottom. What we are hearing is STS, 69, etc, are all sure-fire ways to get paperwork, and as a result, end your career. We're also hearing that sock color, gym bags, and the like are important, because that's what our wing leadership is enforcing. I feel like there is a very, very real disconnect between Gen Welsh telling me to stop doing things if they are stupid and how that is executed on the front lines.

You made some good points Pawnman, I hear you. Stupid shit happens every day. Correct it the best way you can and move on. We need to close the gap between CSAF specific guidance and current efforts.

I don't know pawnman, but I'd be willing to bet your paycheck that he didn't unilaterally decide that turning JP-8 into noise for 8.0, with no value added, was an appropriate course of action. As directed.

Guidance from our WG leadership last FY re: scheduled flight hours:

Fly the allotted flight time, no matter what.

Didn't matter if scheduled activities canceled, and the scheduled 4.3hr mission turned into 4.3 of pattern-only. Didn't matter if only 2 of 5 scheduled pilots were able to make it in due to __________. Didn't matter if the only 2 pilots aboard were long-time KC-10 pilots, who both can (and did) repeatedly put the jet down well within the first 1/3rd of the runway, smoothly enough to hear the freakin' MLG tires chirping as they spun up*. Fly the allotted flight time, no matter what. The only excuses permitted were MX issues, and those were Monday-morning QB'd repeatedly.

When currency is regained and proficiency is demonstrated/assured in the training items available in a KC-10 pattern-only sortie, any further flight time is merely wasting fuel, flight hours, airframe and engine time, and tires. Yet ACs were specifically NOT PERMITTED to justify an early return by stating "training complete", due to a blanket policy that allowed no wiggle room for DOs to tell WG leadership, "Hey sir, this was an experienced crew, who all have their shit in one sock, and don't need to do a dozen T&Gs each solely to burn the hours. Let's save those hours for the handful of new Lts who definitely need the time for value-added training". I'm sure others, in other communitites, have similar stories.

* For those who don't know, the -10 is a fickle bitch that will audibly heckle pilots that don't get the touchdown just right, with a cacophony of rattles, squeaks, and other noises from the various interior panels, cabinets, galley, douche booms, pax, etc. Conversely, she will reward a perfect touchdown by letting you hear the MLG tires chirp, 65ft behind and 18ft below you. STANDARD DISCLAIMER: Non-pilot observation.

edit: strikeout

This should not have happened. Either the squadron could have scheduled smarter to put the hours on pilots who needed the hours, or they should have landed with mission and training complete. If it was really wing cc direction to waste fuel no matter what, you should file an IG complain for Fraud Waste and Abuse. You can do it anonymously. Any money you don't spend on FHP can be repurposed to other O&M priorities. Wasting hours and all of the other resources you described is unacceptable. Do something about it. Or at least fix it so it doesn't happen again.

[Rusty Pipes]

This should not have happened. Either the squadron could have scheduled smarter to put the hours on pilots who needed the hours, or they should have landed with mission and training complete. If it was really wing cc direction to waste fuel no matter what, you should file an IG complain for Fraud Waste and Abuse. You can do it anonymously. Any money you don't spend on FHP can be repurposed to other O&M priorities. Wasting hours and all of the other resources you described is unacceptable. Do something about it. Or at least fix it so it doesn't happen again.

You aren't seriously saying that this surprises you or that you think this is uncommon... are you? When I was in UPT I had the Sq DO come into our empty flight room on 30 Sept where I was sitting duty dawg and asked if there were any IPs around... when I said they were all flying he asked if I was sitting on CAP or a busted ride and then asked for my gradebook. He took a look at it and then told me he needed me to go see the Major at the Ops desk and that I was going to go fly a 1.2 "free flight"... "I don't care if you fly a 1.1 or a 1.3... you WILL log a 1.2!" Not gonna lie to you... was the most fun I had in a Tweet in UPT! Point is that since then, every Sept that I was a Sq scheduler, Wing Scheduler, ADO, etc in three airframes and 3 different MAJCOMs we did the exact same thing... and at the same time I'm answering calls from A3V answering the mail as to why Capt Snuffy landed at Bagram with 10K lbs more fuel than he was supposed to three weeks ago as part of the "fuel savings initiative".

You are obviously a very smart guy and know this will change with airframe/MAJCOM, but I'm sure thinking back to your Ops Sq days you'll remember that it isn't always about scheduling smarter or better. You don't just need pilots there you need the right pilots there... and you also need jets there for these right pilots to fly. NOT zeroing out the flying hour program and just saying "training complete" was not an option. I've been on a staff tour for 2 years and things may have changed, but having a couple IP/EP types (because nobody else was around) burning dinosaurs for a 5.7 in the pattern on 30 Sept was pretty standard just to make the PowerPoint slide good. (Sorry to jump off the main topic... just wondering if this is still happening and if it ever gets above the Wing Level)

Edited November 5, 2013 by Rusty Pipes

[Jaded]

If you see any FHP that is zero's out (like 0.0), it's guaranteed that shenanigans like that occurred.

Fraud, waste and abuse complaint, ha. Our boss walked into our office (rattled) on Sep 30th of this year and said, "I need you to spend $11,000 in the next 4 hours." I can't make this shit up.

[brabus]

So how is the good dude, who knows what right looks like and knows something needs to change, but is afraid to do the right thing because he wants to keep his job for now different than the CYA tow-the-line, don't rock the boat self-serving jerk you can't stand? Pick the righteous fight and fight. Be empowered to do the right thing, like helping the NCO understand the time and place to correct a senior officer. Let the Sq/CC know how you think it is bullshit that he is cracking down on you for correct the out of line NCO or Chief. Courage involves more than risking your life. I don't understand how you can criticize the careerists and those who "don't rock the boat", and do the exact same thing yourself.

Easy to say looking down from your level. I have and continue to do the right thing (as do several officers around me), but have been shit on repeatedly in the past because some crybaby NCO went to daddy, because "that's how it's been, so fuck off Capt" (followed by push back based on rationale and common sense, followed by a "get in line or get out" response). Along those lines, for every NCO/SNCO that is a great troop and worth a shit, there are 10 that need to be kicked in the teeth. Doesn't matter if you're a Capt, they will tell you to fuck off (not in those words, but in their attitude/lack of action) and if you say something to the officer(s) in their chain of command you get dickless leadership who either won't do anything and also maybe add a kick to your left and right nut for trying to give orders to an enlisted member. It's not that CGOs/FGOs don't try, it's that they are shot down and stamped out at a rate much higher than you clearly know happens. I'm sure this did not happen nearly as bad when you were a Capt/Maj, and that's probably why you think I'm full of shit and "there's no way it's really like that."

The buck stops at the O-6+ (and some O-5s) who allow this shit to happen or need to be seen as "visibly doing something" when someone complains the officer was mean to them or keeps making unreasonable requests, such as "do your job please." My SQ/CC is great and I am allowed a good range to execute the officership and leadership any CGO should in the SQ. Unfortunately, that latitude is not given by many of his peers and only because he's a good dude and at the "fuck it, this is probably it" point in his career, he has zero problem going to bat for his people and shielding us from the other asshole O-5 who wants us burned at the stake for being officers outside of the flight line. If CGO/FGOs were given the same latitude across the base (not just in their own corner) to be the officer and leader they should, things would be much better.