More SARC briefings soon.

[panchbarnes]

Yeah, that courage thing is hard. You do know that if a commander or supervisor threatened you with a 365 or cancelled assignment for not doing something stupid you could go to the IG and have his/her ass fired in about a week. And you would keep this from happening to other people. And you've just sat on the sidelines and watched these heavy handed leaders make rank? So much tough talk from members on this forum, and so little action to do the right thing. If anyone threatened to cancel my assignment over a crew schedule disagreement, I would have their ass or have a different job. This is a dose of reality that makes me nauseous.

Serious question: What if instead of a 365 or a cancelled assignment the supervisor/commander instead put coded words in the OPR push line? What do you think the IG would do?

I've seen this TTP used many times by different CCs, this protects them from an investigation and still manages to damage an officer's career.

You ask us to be courageous, but it's not a one way street. What are you, and the other GOs, as "leaders" doing to foster the environment where courage is rewarded and not punished?

And yes, I've spoken up about things to my chain that I didn't think was right only to have my career damaged while nothing happened to the other parties. I'm not the only one though, I have other good bros who have similar experiences. It's usually the ones who keep their mouth shut and play the game that gets the strats and continue to climb the corporate ladder.

[FallingOsh]

False choice. It isn't dedicated professional killer or soft-skinned politically correct poet. It is dedicated professional killer or more dedicated professional killer. Nobody is suggesting we don't hire the men and women that have wild hair on fire, aggressive, creative and fearless traits. Our leadership does demand this. You should too.

I do. That's exactly what I said. We do demand this. Our leadership returns the favor by slapping us in the face. They call us rapists and racists and file paperwork for using foul language. They use us as sacrificial lambs to prove to their bosses how they're tackling the sexual assault problem. Our leaders demand we shoulder the work while also being shit on and blamed for their inept leadership shortfalls.

We also expect you to know how to treat all Airmen with dignity and respect.

We do. The only people accusing us of not showing all Airmen respect are hypocrites like you who have never spent one single operational day in a fighter squadron. I spent about an hour reading a summary of every sexual assault conviction the Air Force has experienced from 2009-2013. Guess how many fighter pilots were on that list. I assume you didn't read the same report so I'll give you the answer. It's zero.

I asked the SARC at my last base how many sexual assaults were reported across each Group. Guess what Group was the only Group with zero reported. I'll give you the answer. The Ops Group. The Group with the absolute lowest amount of reported offenses is the same goddam Group being blamed for all of the problems.

You go on and on about our stupid frat boy traditions and how we need to clean our acts up in order to keep the military in order. WE ARE LITERALLY THE ONLY GROUP WHO IS ACTING LIKE PROPER MILITARY MEN. YOU ARE CHASING DOWN THE WRONG GROUP OF PEOPLE. Look at reality. Look at the facts. Focus your efforts on a group of people that need your attention.

nothing brave, professional or honorable about degrading anyone, from 1CO, to "shoes", to women in combat, to homosexuals, to muslims.

We aren't doing this. Look at the facts. Put your biased personal opinions aside and look at the reports. Read the facts. The Ops Group is NOT where you need to focus your hunt.

I'm sure the soldiers who pissed on the dead Taliban fighters thought they were bonding like only true warriors do,

Maybe they did. Those dudes aren't us.

We made a terrible mistake growing and encouraging a generation of officers who thought this was ok and that it made them better warfighters.

Don't give yourself that much credit. You didn't grow us. You didn't allow us to grow. The same personality type has been flying and/or fighting in wars for centuries. It's you who will be the downfall our military. It's you who will send every warfighter to pasture in favor of a more docile force. You, by your own admission, had the same personality in your early military days. You now have no qualms about throwing others under the bus for your own politically driven gain. You didn't do shit to grow us. You're using us as scapegoats to further your own career.

It doesn't and it won't matter in a few years when we forget this minor behavior course correction. What is your point?

If you have ignored everything else I've said, please read this carefully.

My point is this; If you were right.... if your assertions were correct... if your viewpoints were correct.... if your gamelan was correct... things would be improving. Perverts and rapists and racists and frat boys would be forced out of the military and good, hardy young men would be joining. If you were right... the rate of sexual assaults would be decreasing significantly with every bad pilot purged. If your opinions and actions were correct.... the ship would be righting itself. Why don't you go ahead and tell me what's happening with the pilot force as you continue to treat them like criminals. How's the retention rate and new recruitment working out? Why don't you go ahead and tell me how we're doing in terms of reducing sexual assault. How's that going? If you and your opinions were correct, we wouldn't still be having this conversation. Take a good, long look in the mirror and ask yourself what effects your actions are really having on our force.

Edited November 14, 2013 by FallingOsh

[pawnman]

Have you ever talked to the CPTS/CC? Or the LRS/CC? Did you mentor the Airmen or the SSgt?

Whenever I've seen an attempt to mentor an airman outside my own organization, I've seen that airman complain about it to their boss, which eventually results in a SQ/CC to SQ/CC phone call, ending in disaster for the "mentor".

[Homestar]

I take it you've never dealt with finance, I would love to have a paycheck where I wasn't overpaid or grossly underpaid ... This list could go on and on, sock checks by the SSgt at the chow hall ect.

I have had exactly two instances of overpayment in my 10 year military career. Neither were my fault. I think you may be an outlier.

I've spent many summers at Camp Al Udeid, and regardless of how stupid I think the place is I've never witnessed a "sock" check. I have had airmen at the door remind me to take my hat and sunglasses off whilst taking off my hat and sunglasses.

[Fuzz]

Clarification I was recently overpaid (not my first time either but that's not relevant), not my fault or my direct finance shop, now I'm stuck in the pendulum of watching finance "fix" the overpayment as they take too much then, overpay and then take some back, eventually it settles out. In the mean time it's like playing the lottery to see how much they are going to take back.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Fuzz

[Dave Koza]

So, his story used as an example in his Commander's Call about the airman at Transpo who stopped filling out the Form 1800s isn't what he really meant? Or, more correctly, this is how mid-level AF leadership interpreted what he said?

"The gulf between the intent of a General Officer and the execution of that intent by those in positions of immediate authority is massive in a complex bureaucracy."

A guy named Blake Page said this, but I wish I had.

[slackline]

Clarification I was recently overpaid (not my first time either but that's not relevant), not my fault or my direct finance shop, now I'm stuck in the pendulum of watching finance "fix" the overpayment as they take too much then, overpay and then take some back, eventually it settles out. In the mean time it's like playing the lottery to see how much they are going to take back.

For someone so new in the Air Force, you've experienced a disproportional amount of garbage. I won't lie, sometimes it sounds like you're just making crap up to sound cool. And by cool, I mean "look at me, I've BTDT already." Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Edited November 15, 2013 by slackline

[Champ Kind]

For someone so new in the Air Force, you've experienced a disproportional amount of garbage. I won't lie, sometimes it sounds like you're just making crap up to sound cool. And by cool, I mean "look at me, I've BTDT already." Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Hey man, you're the one inbound for school. Help us fix it in a couple of years. Please.

[Fuzz]

For someone so new in the Air Force, you've experienced a disproportional amount of garbage. I won't lie, sometimes it sounds like you're just making crap up to sound cool. And by cool, I mean "look at me, I've BTDT already." Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Yeah dude, I spend my days thinking of shit that could happen to impress you and the rest of the guys on this board. In fact I'm so distraught that you think I make this up, I have to go sign up for a resiliency class before I kill myself or actually just GFY.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Fuzz

[Bergman]

Yeah, that courage thing is hard. You do know that if a commander or supervisor threatened you with a 365 or cancelled assignment for not doing something stupid you could go to the IG and have his/her ass fired in about a week. And you would keep this from happening to other people. And you've just sat on the sidelines and watched these heavy handed leaders make rank? So much tough talk from members on this forum, and so little action to do the right thing. If anyone threatened to cancel my assignment over a crew schedule disagreement, I would have their ass or have a different job. This is a dose of reality that makes me nauseous.

Ah, okay...so now it's MY fault for not running to the IG every time I hear of this type of thing happening. I'll try to do better.

Have you ever seen what happens to people who make IG complaints? I'm sure you'll tell me great tales of justice being served, "having the commmanders ass" (so to speak), or getting a different job. In my experience what happens is as soon as the Sq or Gp/CC gets word of the complaint, you will find yourself instantly on every shit list...crappy flying schedule, endless SOF duty, deployed over Christmas (again), first in line for a 365, last in line for upgrade or PCS. If you make an IG complaint, you had better have your shit together because if the IG doesn't see things in your favor, your life is going to suck for a very long time.

You are right, I have sat by and watched these heavy-handed "leaders" make rank. I sincerely welcome advice on how I can handle in the future. My opinion has always been, "Surely the Group/CC or Wing/CC sees what an asshole this guy is, right?"..."It'll all work out the right way when they go to get promoted." After all, I used to have a lot of faith in our senior leaders. But then I watch, year after year, as these jerks not only get promoted but get school slots and further command. I have run into two of them in the past 6 months...guys who were the very definition (in my opinion) of "worst leader ever" and come back three years later as O-6 group and/or wing leadership. Please tell me how a part-time ANG guy can fix the problems with AD leadership. I spend an inordinate amount of my time while deployed mentoring the AD kids over three beers or coffee, make a point of giving the Sq/CC a "my opinion only" out-brief before I leave, and generally try to be positive and lead by good example. What more should I be doing? Honestly.

[nsplayr]

How do you think you would get paid, get fuel, get parts, get weather, have the lights work in your building or any of the other thousand supoprt functions that we need to fly combat aircraft if there were no "shoes"?

This concept of "shoes" or more fully "shoe clerks" gets misconstrued around here a lot.

A shoe is not one by virtue of their position, being rated or not, being an officer or enlisted, etc. A shoe is someone who is more concerned with logic-defying compliance with obscure BS, a commitment to poor customer service, and generally a lackluster attitude characterized by "not my problem," whining to their boss when corrected, and not being a team player.

I've met some shoe clerk support and medical guys who give me the run around whenever I'm trying to get something done, and I've met plenty of shoe clerk pilots and CSOs who are a huge PITA to deal with in the ops squadron. This isn't just another an ops vs support battle, in fact many leaders who are shoe clerks also happen to be pilots simply because most senior leaders in the AF are pilots.

Hope that clarifies what people are talking about when they use that term.

Yeah, that courage thing is hard. You do know that if a commander or supervisor threatened you with a 365 or cancelled assignment for not doing something stupid you could go to the IG and have his/her ass fired in about a week. And you would keep this from happening to other people. And you've just sat on the sidelines and watched these heavy handed leaders make rank? So much tough talk from members on this forum, and so little action to do the right thing. If anyone threatened to cancel my assignment over a crew schedule disagreement, I would have their ass or have a different job. This is a dose of reality that makes me nauseous.

As a counter point, have you seen the IG at the 1 SOW? It's an island of misfit toys if I ever saw one. Some are there deservedly after squadron commanders flicked some boogers elsewhere, some are just kinda stuck. But it's not the kind of organization I want to side with vs a squadron, group or wing commander.

What I've seen is that some CGO/FGO types have the courage to call BS and some Commanders listen. Others don't and at the lower level go along to get along and at the leadership level they continue implementing policies that are completely asinine. Subordinates have to have the courage to "PID BS" as my sq/cc put it, but leaders also have to have the courage to ask for candid feedback and take it on the chin once in a while when they're leading their troops down the wrong path.

The biggest problem I see is that as a CGO you can highlight something to your DO or CC, he may fully agree and advocate for the right policy to his chain, but somewhere between the squadron level and the 3-star, good advice dies a slow and quiet death. I don't think it's malicious, I know good friends on the HQ staff that are working hard to make things work better, but the level of bureaucracy is just astounding even in an "agile, SOF organization" and it insulates senior leaders from the working man in a way that fosters bad decision making. Technology has made it worse since even when we're spread out across the globe senior leaders can demand "micro information" at a moment's notice and expect to be able to control the battlefield Minority Report style rather than giving their intent and allowing front-line leaders to execute to the best of their ability.

Maybe that's something that can be solved with more dialogue like you see here. I was disappointed that the AFOSC/CC's online "crossfire" or whatever it's called isn't a two-way street, but more a 1-way street where leadership can ask things and subordinates jump through their ass to answer first. It's a good and encouraging start, but more senior leaders need to take the plunge and elicit specific feedback from the Captain flying the line or the SSgt turning the wrench.

Two-way communication I think is way undervalued and we have to do something to break the disconnect that CGO and below-level folks feel from their leaders.

Edited November 15, 2013 by nsplayr

[Liquid]

Ah, okay...so now it's MY fault for not running to the IG every time I hear of this type of thing happening. I'll try to do better.

Have you ever seen what happens to people who make IG complaints? I'm sure you'll tell me great tales of justice being served, "having the commmanders ass" (so to speak), or getting a different job. In my experience what happens is as soon as the Sq or Gp/CC gets word of the complaint, you will find yourself instantly on every shit list...crappy flying schedule, endless SOF duty, deployed over Christmas (again), first in line for a 365, last in line for upgrade or PCS. If you make an IG complaint, you had better have your shit together because if the IG doesn't see things in your favor, your life is going to suck for a very long time.

You are right, I have sat by and watched these heavy-handed "leaders" make rank. I sincerely welcome advice on how I can handle in the future. My opinion has always been, "Surely the Group/CC or Wing/CC sees what an asshole this guy is, right?"..."It'll all work out the right way when they go to get promoted." After all, I used to have a lot of faith in our senior leaders. But then I watch, year after year, as these jerks not only get promoted but get school slots and further command. I have run into two of them in the past 6 months...guys who were the very definition (in my opinion) of "worst leader ever" and come back three years later as O-6 group and/or wing leadership. Please tell me how a part-time ANG guy can fix the problems with AD leadership. I spend an inordinate amount of my time while deployed mentoring the AD kids over three beers or coffee, make a point of giving the Sq/CC a "my opinion only" out-brief before I leave, and generally try to be positive and lead by good example. What more should I be doing? Honestly.

Reprisal for IG complaints is protected by law. Don't be afraid of that. Keep doing what you are doing. Give AD leadership the honest and direct feedback their subordinates are not willing to give. Keep mentoring the young officers and enlisted. Trust me, nothing derails a shitty commander better than IG complaints. Use the system as it is designed to be used. Report the assholes and stop their progression. If you are the asshole, bitching about a good commander you disagree with won't derail him/her because the investigation will determine the facts. Most IG complaints are not substantiated because they are brought by disgruntled people who have no real grounds for formal grievance. If you see real misconduct, abuse of authority or incompetence, report it again and again. Anyone who reprises against you using protected communications and complaints (IG and Congress) will be fired. Believe me on that.

This concept of "shoes" or more fully "shoe clerks" gets misconstrued around here a lot.A shoe is not one by virtue of their position, being rated or not, being an officer or enlisted, etc. A shoe is someone who is more concerned with logic-defying compliance with obscure BS, a commitment to poor customer service, and generally a lackluster attitude characterized by "not my problem," whining to their boss when corrected, and not being a team player.I've met some shoe clerk support and medical guys who give me the run around whenever I'm trying to get something done, and I've met plenty of shoe clerk pilots and CSOs who are a huge PITA to deal with in the ops squadron. This isn't just another an ops vs support battle, in fact many leaders who are shoe clerks also happen to be pilots simply because most senior leaders in the AF are pilots.Hope that clarifies what people are talking about when they use that term. As a counter point, have you seen the IG at the 1 SOW? It's an island of misfit toys if I ever saw one. Some are there deservedly after squadron commanders flicked some boogers elsewhere, some are just kinda stuck. But it's not the kind of organization I want to side with vs a squadron, group or wing commander.What I've seen is that some CGO/FGO types have the courage to call BS and some Commanders listen. Others don't and at the lower level go along to get along and at the leadership level they continue implementing policies that are completely asinine. Subordinates have to have the courage to "PID BS" as my sq/cc put it, but leaders also have to have the courage to ask for candid feedback and take it on the chin once in a while when they're leading their troops down the wrong path.The biggest problem I see is that as a CGO you can highlight something to your DO or CC, he may fully agree and advocate for the right policy to his chain, but somewhere between the squadron level and the 3-star, good advice dies a slow and quiet death. I don't think it's malicious, I know good friends on the HQ staff that are working hard to make things work better, but the level of bureaucracy is just astounding even in an "agile, SOF organization" and it insulates senior leaders from the working man in a way that fosters bad decision making. Technology has made it worse since even when we're spread out across the globe senior leaders can demand "micro information" at a moment's notice and expect to be able to control the battlefield Minority Report style rather than giving their intent and allowing front-line leaders to execute to the best of their ability.Maybe that's something that can be solved with more dialogue like you see here. I was disappointed that the AFOSC/CC's online "crossfire" or whatever it's called isn't a two-way street, but more a 1-way street where leadership can ask things and subordinates jump through their ass to answer first. It's a good and encouraging start, but more senior leaders need to take the plunge and elicit specific feedback from the Captain flying the line or the SSgt turning the wrench.Two-way communication I think is way undervalued and we have to do something to break the disconnect that CGO and below-level folks feel from their leaders.

The shoe explanation makes sense, thanks. I agree with everything you say here. Not bad for a nav.

[Liquid]

Serious question: What if instead of a 365 or a cancelled assignment the supervisor/commander instead put coded words in the OPR push line? What do you think the IG would do?

I've seen this TTP used many times by different CCs, this protects them from an investigation and still manages to damage an officer's career.

You ask us to be courageous, but it's not a one way street. What are you, and the other GOs, as "leaders" doing to foster the environment where courage is rewarded and not punished?

And yes, I've spoken up about things to my chain that I didn't think was right only to have my career damaged while nothing happened to the other parties. I'm not the only one though, I have other good bros who have similar experiences. It's usually the ones who keep their mouth shut and play the game that gets the strats and continue to climb the corporate ladder.

You can make an anonymous IG complaint. If/If there is real misconduct and injustice being done, the investigation will reveal it. Many IG complaints are bullshit and filed by disgruntled people who do not have valid complaints. Those get dismissed. Others get fixed.

Look, I don't speak for anyone but me. There isn't some magic network of senior leaders who coordinate actions. Linking me to all senior leaders is like me saying HeloDude speaks for every pilot in the AF. I value courage and make sure my subordinates understand it. I think the AF is screwing up by not putting courage as one of the core values. I despise cowardice and make sure the cowards are held accountable. You can do the same thing. The best thing you can do is pick a righteous fight, and fight it very publicly. Doing the right thing in a very public manner has a tremendous impact on all those who watch. Falling on your sword over something stupid like the "right" to say "so to speak" whenever you think it is funny to make a sex joke is not smart. You will rightfully get your ass handed to you for making a dumb ass stand. I can't believe how many people here argue for the right to say and do stupid, juvenile shit because they think it makes them better warfighters. If you are really being screwed over by a self-serving, overly sensitive, immoral leader, take on that fight. Keeping your mouth shut on things that are wrong, like the experiences you describe, is f*ing cowardice. Be an officer and step up and fix the wrong shit. Or go work in a profession where nobody expects you to lead and do the right thing, regardless of consequences.

[HeloDude]

Look, I don't speak for anyone but me. There isn't some magic network of senior leaders who coordinate actions. Linking me to all senior leaders is like me saying HeloDude speaks for every pilot in the AF.

I think you have quite a bit in common with your fellow senior officers, just as I do with CGO's/FGO's who are actually into hacking the mission, mentoring young officers and enlisted, and willing to do what is necessary for legitimate reasons. You want me to go deploy tomorrow to hack the mission?...let me know, and I'll be packed up and ready to go, no BS there.

I'm personally tired of the hypocrisy in the Air Force...maybe that's just my personality, but it's something that was instilled in me a long time ago--to not just 'go along to get along'. I have seen the hypocrisy from my first years as a qualified dude in the squadron, to right now at my current staff job. I have also seem some great leaders...mostly when I've been deployed, but at home as well. I have seen a commander go out to dinner with a couple of his 'favorite' young Captains who him and his wife were friends with (literally caught them by randomly showing up with a date to the same restaurant)...funny, those couple Captains were always the ones getting picked for upgrade first, highest strats (I was the Exec, so I saw this with my own eyes), getting pushed harder for the assignments they wanted, etc. Their leadership and flying skills were average to above average, but again, they were the ones typically picked for awards, etc. Yeah, I'm sure an IG complaint would have done wonders...that commander would have had an excuse for every one of his actions. Again, unless it's blatant, then it's a 'he said vs she said'...oh, and this commander has friends out there who could be my next commander, so...

I have seen guys get called out for doing something 'wrong' when flying, only to bring the AFI's to the DO/CC to show them that they in fact didn't do anything in wrong...and then subsequently had that the DO/CC say 'well...maybe it was legal, but...'. I personally did this on two occasions, and fortunately I was correct both times.

I have seen commanders utterly surprised when not one of the evaluators (both pilots and the E's) recommend their shining star for the next upgrade to evaluator. Think they might have just been a little 'out of touch'? Funny, the commander still pushed that person for the upgrade, the next job outside the squadron to get pushed, etc.

I could go on and on, but I think you get the idea. You can only pee on my leg and tell me it's raining so often before I smell the piss and realize what's really going on. When a sharp dude gets the highest strat, gets picked up for school on his O-4 board, etc then I'm not at all jealous, actually, I'm happy that the 'system' is at least somewhat working the way it should be.

And for the record, I could give 2 shits about saying 'so to speak' (that's a stupid fighter thing anyway), saying 69 all the time, etc. But I do hate the witch hunt and the hypocrisy...you know, that same hypocrisy you show when saying Wilkerson assaulted someone. The same hypocrisy of saying that a picture of a dude's wife in a vacation bikini pic is unprofessional/sexual, etc but then don't have a problem with the AF PA on af.mil sites showing girls in body building pics wearing bikini's.

I've said it before and I'll say it again--this is the way the system is and I get it. It's hard to prove that a commander or O-6 did what he did (ie lower strats, not picked for an upgrade, etc) because you challenged them a policy--why?...because this business is subjective as hell. If you're not one of the 20% chosen ones (you know, the guys you love who will agree with anything you say) then you're better off to just doing your best and not rocking the boat. You may call that cowardice...but I call that reality. I'll fall on my sword when I just can't take it anymore or when I'm near the end and I don't feel they can fck with me much anymore. But I refuse to drink the koolaid and be a cheerleader for the nonsense. I have had young Lt's ask me about certain rules, policies that I though was utter nonsense and I tell them is to make sure they understand such rule and policy and that this is what we're to do and follow. I won't though start cheering about how great of a policy or rule I think it is and how it's making us a better force, blah blah blah.

BL: I'll keep on doing what I know is right and taking care of my own guys as much as I can--I'm not 'chasing' rank.

Sorry for the TLDR type post. Rant Off.

[Bobby]

Get ready for more fun gents...looks like this is not over yet.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20140107/NEWS/301070017/Complaint-Shaw-report-makes-excuses-alleged-harassers

[waveshaper]

Roving Patrols Combat Military Sex Assaults.

I can't believe the Navy came up with this before the Air Force, our SARC folks got some catching up to do. Also, patrolmembers get to wear a distinctive "Red Patrol Badge" on their uniform; now that's a nice and maybe even a somewhat

historic touch. Now, the SARC needs to find some type of distinctive/highly visible badge or marker to help identify all

the past(26,000 in CY13), present, and potential future sexual assault violators.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/01/07/roving-patrols-combat-military-sex-assaults.html

[one1]

The Air Force has teal ropes at training bases to stop sexual assaults.

https://www.dodlive.mil/index.php/2012/10/teal-ropes-to-spotlight-sexual-assault-response/

[HAWDINGL]

Oh wait, I thought these guys just told me for the last 7 years that preventing sexual assault was everyone's responsibility...I guess we are all off the hook now?

Edited January 8, 2014 by HAWDINGL

[SocialD]

https://www.army.mil/article/117919/Legislation_changing_UCMJ__especially_for_sex_crimes/

Coming to a UCMJ near you.

ARTICLE 60

Like Article 32 changes, modifications to Article 60 are to be phased in over the course of 12 months. Article 60 involves pre-trial agreements and actions by the convening authority in modifying or setting aside findings of a case or reducing sentencing.

A convening authority could, in the past, do that, and some did, though rarely.

Changes to Article 60 were influenced last year by a case involving Air Force Lt. Col. James Wilkerson, a former inspector general convicted of aggravated sexual assault, Kiel said. The convening authority, Air Force Lt. Gen. Craig Franklin, overturned the findings of guilt.

"That got Congress stirred up," Kiel said.

In NDAA14, legislators said the convening authority can no longer adjust any findings of guilt for felony offenses where the sentence is longer than six months or contains a discharge. They cannot change findings for any sex crime, irrespective of sentencing time.

One way a commander can still modify a sentence is "if the trial counsel comes forward and says 'this particular accused was very helpful in securing evidence or cooperating with the government in prosecuting someone who was accused of committing an offense under the UCMJ.' That is a trigger for the convening authority to be able to modify a sentence," Kiel said.

The other way a convening authority can modify a sentence, even involving rape and sexual assault, is if a pre-trial agreement is in place, he said, meaning that the case could close, but the pre-trial agreement would still take effect.

Congress realized that Article 60 was still needed to continue the option for pre-trial agreements, he said. Had Article 60 been done away with altogether, that "would have likely meant all courts-martial would have gone to full contest and that would have bottlenecked the entire process."

It also would have meant that all alleged victims of sexual assault would have likely had to testify if Article 60 were voided. "Sometimes victims supported the pre-trial agreement, supported the potential sentence and supported the fact that they didn't have to testify -- when it was in their best individual interest," he said.

.

Edited January 9, 2014 by SocialD

[Azimuth]

Lt Gen Franklin is retiring as a two star.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20140109/NEWS/301090021/Lt-Gen-Franklin-will-retire-2-star

[Smokin]

A complete shame. The AF is far worse for his pre-mature departure. One of the few GOs who still had tactical relevancy; as a one star he would go fight BFM against line IPs and school them.

[Fuzz]

A complete shame. The AF is far worse for his pre-mature departure. One of the few GOs who still had tactical relevancy; as a one star he would go fight BFM against line IPs and school them.

Can someone explain to me how a 3 star can retire as a 2 star?

[sputnik]

Not meet time in grade.

[Azimuth]

Can someone explain to me how a 3 star can retire as a 2 star?

Apparently you didn't read the story. He didn't have enough TIG.

[Fuzz]

Apparently you didn't read the story. He didn't have enough TIG.

No I didn't, just the title, my bad.