Taxes, the Deficit/Debt, and the Fiscal Cliff

[Buddy Spike]

I was more worried about the sequestration anyway. You guys ready to fly half as much, and only turn on every other computer in the squadron to save electricity?

Let's start with these "vacations"

https://www.hawaiireporter.com/residents-alerted-to-obamas-hawaiian-holiday-plans/123

Laser like focus - the amateur didn't even sign the bill before he hauled ass back to his vacation. Standard.

And while I seriously doubt any congressman is wasting his time posting on these boards (probably just some fucking nav trolling us), if you are in fact real, I have one piece of advice: DO YOUR JOB. No more excuses, no more grandstanding. Just STFU and do your job.

[nsplayr]

Laser like focus - the amateur didn't even sign the bill before he hauled ass back to his vacation. Standard.

So you're mad that the bill isn't signed yet, somehow delaying it's implementation or causing some other consequence? That's an odd criticism considering the facts...

[dream big]

So you're mad that the bill isn't signed yet, somehow delaying it's implementation or causing some other consequence? That's an odd criticism considering the facts...

His e signature was his only contribution to the fiscal cliff debate. He even sent Biden to do the negotiating while he was on vacation. I am still amazed that the man who lectures Americans on paying their fair share of taxes takes a tax payer funded vacation days before most Amercans would have seen one of the largest tax hikes in history. How people can define this as leadership is beyond me. And for the record, the same criticism extends to republican and democratic congressmen/senators.

[Buddy Spike]

So you're mad that the bill isn't signed yet, somehow delaying it's implementation or causing some other consequence? That's an odd criticism considering the facts...

Yeah, it was a waste of taxpayer money to have him fly back and forth from Hawaii only to accomplish it via "autopen." At $180k/hr for AF1 and a broke government, you'd think he'd either just cancel the trip or stay in Hawaii. Did he really do anything in DC that he couldn't have done via teleconference? And if it were so important that he be there, why not cancel the trip altogether? How many other Federal workers get 20 day vacations on the government dime?

You want to start cutting waste? Start from the top.

[Ram]

Yeah, it was a waste of taxpayer money to have him fly back and forth from Hawaii only to accomplish it via "autopen." At $180k/hr for AF1 and a broke government, you'd think he'd either just cancel the trip or stay in Hawaii. Did he really do anything in DC that he couldn't have done via teleconference? And if it were so important that he be there, why not cancel the trip altogether? How many other Federal workers get 20 day vacations on the government dime?

You want to start cutting waste? Start from the top.

You're right. Especially when you consider that Senators got a whopping total of 3 MINUTES to read the bill before it was put to a vote.

https://cnsnews.com/news/article/senators-got-154-page-fiscal-cliff-bill-3-minutes-voting-it

I can't tell the difference between CSPAN and Blazing Saddles anymore.

[Buddy Spike]

You're right. Especially when you consider that Senators got a whopping total of 3 MINUTES to read the bill before it was put to a vote.

https://cnsnews.com/n...nutes-voting-it

I can't tell the difference between CSPAN and Blazing Saddles anymore.

Clowns. Every single one of them. And the clowns in the House (that means you, "congressman") just put the crying Boehner back in charge. Good work.

Prepare for a government shutdown in a couple of months.

[HeloDude]

Same thing can be said about the Democratic Party...unless suddenly a majority of Americans approve of the Obamacare Bill or the Gun Contol measures the Dems want to pass. Both parties are extreme in their own ways.

[nsplayr]

Same thing can be said about the Democratic Party...unless suddenly a majority of Americans approve of the Obamacare Bill or the Gun Contol measures the Dems want to pass. Both parties are extreme in their own ways.

The last poll I saw on Obamacare had something like 49% supported expanding or maintaining it, 33% supported repeal & replace or just straight repeal. Not saying it's terribly popular but the point stands.

And WRT gun control measures, you know full well that there's a pretty sizable chunk of the Democratic party that doesn't support radical new restrictions. Some like Feinstein do, but there are 11 Democrats in the Senate with at least a B (and 10 with at least a qualified A) rating from the NRA, including the Majority Leader. That's a solid fifth of the entire caucus plus the 1 key player at the top that can be rated generally as pro-gun rights. Saying what the Dems want to pass then is a little complicated and I'm not really sure what would pass the Democratic Senate in terms of new gun laws. People that look at Feinstein's bill thinking it's gonna be a reality tomorrow are doing so out of fear rather than rational analysis of the political situation in Washington.

The even bigger point I think is where the bulk of each party is in the overall ideological spectrum. My view is that the very liberal wing of the Democratic party is relatively weak. How often do you see arguments in the Dem primaries arguing who is more liberal? On the other hand the very conservative wing of the GOP is much stronger, as evidenced by the 2010 midterms but a little less so recently. How many Republicans are more worried about a tea-party inspired primary challenge from the right than a general election challenge from a Democrat? I'd argue a lot. The 2012 GOP Presidential primary, and in part the 2008 primary, was a pissing contest over who was more "severely conservative" and who loved Reagan more. Obviously colored by my own views, but I find it hard to argue that radical liberals hold more sway among Democrats than radical conservatives do among Republicans, that's the BL.

Furthermore, the Democratic party has evolved since the 1980s whoopings and even since the Clinton years and is literally proposing some of the exact same policies advocated by Republicans 10-15 years ago. Cap & trade, the individual mandate, signing legislation allowing CCW in national parks and on Amtrak, indefinite detention of terror suspects, unaccountable drone strikes on American citizens, making 98% of the Bush Tax Cuts on income, low rates on estate taxes and keeping the AMT to a minimum permanent, Jesus, if anyone should be arguing that the parties are really the same it should be the far-left liberals, not the far-right conservatives!

I'm actually for all those things more or less but then again I'm not a far-left liberal. As times change the discourse changes and I'd argue today we're in a political age where the mean political ideology being discussed is so far to the right of center that even relatively conservative Republicans are lambasted as RINOs and moderate Democrats are made out to be card-carrying Communists.

Both parties are extreme in their own ways, for sure, you can't get rid of idiocy in your ranks no matter what you believe. But the argue that both sides are equally responsible for gridlock in Washington or to argue that both sides are proposing extreme policies by historical standards, that's just BS.

Edited January 4, 2013 by nsplayr

[ClearedHot]

We won't fix anything until we fix this attitude.

This one is even better, go to 2:19 and listen...if you can. "Someone needs to pay and someone needs to be held accountable."

Edited January 5, 2013 by ClearedHot

[lloyd christmas]

We won't fix anything until we fix this attitude.

This one is even better, go to 2:19 and listen...if you can. "Someone needs to pay and someone needs to be held accountable."

The second video made me realize we have another problem. This Angel Adams lady has put out 13 more voters than me and my wife have in our responsible marriage. They are multiplying faster than responsible people.

[dontshavemyhead]

The second video made me realize we have another problem. This Angel Adams lady has put out 13 more voters than me and my wife have in our responsible marriage. They are multiplying faster than responsible people.

Have you not seen Idiocracy?!

Edited January 6, 2013 by dontshavemyhead

[Prozac]

Have you not seen Idiocracy?!

Funny, and a bit scary. This is why I really don't understand the Republicans' resistance to birth control and planned parenthood.

[disgruntledemployee]

Funny, and a bit scary. This is why I really don't understand the Republicans' resistance to birth control and planned parenthood.

I'm all for it, just use Bill Gates' money, Angelina Jolie's money, and Bill Clinton's money, not taxpayer money. These people can do a wonderful job funding birth control. Mr Gates loves giving out innoculations. These guys should create a bunch of clinics targeting those neighborhoods with high crime rates. They can even make catchy youtube videos.

Or, make welfare a nice big pain in the ass. There is nothing like tearing out orange $5 "food stamps" in front of the cashier to pay for "grocery only" items and while the cashier tells the person that it doesn't cover the cases of soda, bags of junk food, or the carton of smokes.

BTW, I loved the rebuttal video someone make of all the Hollywood stars using guns in their movies. Now someone needs to make one about all the Hollywoods using drugs in movies and how that's created a culture glorifying drugs. Even better, I hope the autopsy of the Conn. shooter shows he was high on pot, promting people to call for a ban on pot and other dangerous drugs.

Out

[pawnman]

Funny, and a bit scary. This is why I really don't understand the Republicans' resistance to birth control and planned parenthood.

Nor I. You want an efficient use of taxpayer dollars, Planned Parenthood is it.

[Fuzz]

I love how democrats love planned parenthood, considering the founder was a huge racist. Morally I'm opposed to it but like Lloyd said they are out producing responsible people

[guineapigfury]

Funny, and a bit scary. This is why I really don't understand the Republicans' resistance to birth control and planned parenthood.

We elect lawyers, fast-talkers, gladhanders and people with good hair. In other words, people who are bad at math. Condoms cost less than education, jail, and healthcare. The single most efficient use of Government resources this country could devise is carpet-bombing our cities with Trojans.

[czecksikhs]

Our fiscal troubles are over! Due to a law permitting the Treasury to mint platinum coins of unspecified weight or value, economists, politicians, and dickless HuffPost readers have started a petition at whitehouse.gov to allow the government to fix the whole debt ceiling thingy.

Step 1: Treasury mints a platinum coin with face value of $1T.

Step 2: Treasury deposits coin at the Fed, bringing down the balance of debt.

Step 3: ????

Step 4: Profit.

https://www.businessi...-economy-2013-1

[Gravedigger]

Wasn't sure if this belongs in this thread, the liberty thread or WTF thread:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-01/why-americans-have-lost-drive-earn-more

[nsplayr]

Been posted already either earlier in this thread or elsewhere.

Good article and infographic here on some problems with Social Security.

[Fuzz]

"the president said to me, 'We don't have a spending problem.' "

Get ready for more taxes and spending!

https://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323482504578225620234902106.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

[AnimalMother]

Been posted already either earlier in this thread or elsewhere.

Good article and infographic here on some problems with Social Security.

I think that the primary problem with social scam...I mean security...is that it was never really intended to pay much back to those who invested in it. Unfortunately for the USG, modern medicine and growing health consciousness conspired against them and created the debacle we love to discuss today. My point? When SS was created in 1935, it established 65 years of age as the minimum for participants to begin drawing full benefits. I wonder what the average life expectancy of an American was in 1935...

[338skybolt]

I wonder what the average life expectancy of an American was in 1935...

61.7 (https://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005148.html)

[Vertigo]

considering the founder was a huge racist.

So she was just like every other white person in this nation at the time. Noted.

[Fuzz]

So she was just like every other white person in this nation at the time. Noted.

If every white person of the day actively tried to exterminate the African American population, along with the mentally ill and others then yes she was just like them.

[Guest one]

You think she actively tried to exterminate African Americans? What are you talking about? She was about as racist as every other white person during the 30s and 40s. Let's not get all crazy because you do not like Planned Parenthood.

I do not understand how providing birth control to both white and black people at the same time somehow means she was exterminating a race of people.