Taxes, the Deficit/Debt, and the Fiscal Cliff

[Right Seat Driver]

1 hour ago, SCRIMP said:

Will this cancel all currently planned/scheduled TDYs? I have orders for a trip on 31 Jan.

It depends on what the TDY is. There is amplifying information released by the DoD outlining what TDYs will proceed or be cancelled. Bottomline, if it is mission essential expect to press. If it isn't, the TDY will probably be cancelled. I know a couple of people being recalled from TDY IAW the DoD guidance detailing TDY actions in the shut down.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Right Seat Driver
Spelling

[17D_guy]

17 minutes ago, Right Seat Driver said:

It depends on what the TDY is. There is amplifying information released by the DoD outlining what TDYs will proceed or be cancelled. Bottomline, if it is mission essential expect to press. If it isn't, the TDY will probably be cancelled. I know a couple of people being recalled from TDY IAW the DoD guidance detailing TDY actions in the shut down.

+2.  Saw this discussion taking place in our front office.  JAG had to come explain how the 2-star's trip the the Puzzle Palace to brief was still on, but the 1-star's trip to officiate a retirement would have to be out of pocket if the gov't shutdown remained.

[NKAWTG]

No clue what mission essential actually means.  Do we recall folks from SOS and upgrade at the FTU?  Do contract maintainers show up Monday to preflight aircraft?  

[Right Seat Driver]

2 minutes ago, NKAWTG said:

No clue what mission essential actually means.  Do we recall folks from SOS and upgrade at the FTU?  Do contract maintainers show up Monday to preflight aircraft?  

That is a great question. AFAIK, SOS and FTU guys are good. Unknown about contract maintainers. Some were furloughed in 2013. The DoD did not seem prepared for this shut down based on the vague guidance they've released.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Right Seat Driver

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, Right Seat Driver said:

That is a great question. AFAIK, SOS and FTU guys are good. Unknown about contract maintainers. Some were furloughed in 2013. The DoD did not seem prepared for this shut down based on the vague guidance they've released.

Do you think DoD leadership actually had faith that a budget would get passed, or do they just have to look like they have faith in front of the elected officials?

[Right Seat Driver]

2 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Do you think DoD leadership actually had faith that a budget would get passed, or do they just have to look like they have faith in front of the elected officials?

I think the leadership had faith a CR would get passed because it seems to be standard ops now. IIRC, the DoD had guidance in-place prior to the 2013 shut down so everyone was prepared when congress failed to act.

[HossHarris]

Pipeline training and aetc was mission essential last time 

 

[RTB]

13 hours ago, BADFNZ said:

I've had a beer or two since, but didn't USAA still pay it's members their normal  paycheck on payday when the last shutdown took place?

They're doing it again this time if it lasts that long...

 

https://communities.usaa.com/t5/USAA-News/USAA-to-Help-Members-in-Event-of-Government-Shutdown/ba-p/159635

 

[herkbum]

2 hours ago, HossHarris said:

Pipeline training and aetc was mission essential last time 

 

Is this time as well. Formal training is also exempt. Our Technicians are furloughed, will report Monday with expectation of being sent home if agreement isn’t reached. Us AGRs are business as usual. 

[Homestar]

[HeloDude]

9 hours ago, NKAWTG said:

No clue what mission essential actually means.  Do we recall folks from SOS and upgrade at the FTU?  Do contract maintainers show up Monday to preflight aircraft?  

Most government contracts, like aircraft mx, are paid quarterly, so they'll continue...

[17D_guy]

We've got tests going on for new upgrades where we've got to send the AFOTEC testers home (AD, Civ's) and they're going to attempt to get contractors out that are already paid for to cover it.

 

[Boomer6]

On 1/20/2018 at 1:18 PM, Right Seat Driver said:

That is a great question. AFAIK, SOS and FTU guys are good. Unknown about contract maintainers. Some were furloughed in 2013. The DoD did not seem prepared for this shut down based on the vague guidance they've released.

Not true on the SOS part. We're being told to expect to be sent home on Monday if a spending deal isn't passed. That's coming down from the AETC Deputy Commander Maj Gen Brown.

[dream big]

8 hours ago, Boomer6 said:

Not true on the SOS part. We're being told to expect to be sent home on Monday if a spending deal isn't passed. That's coming down from the AETC Deputy Commander Maj Gen Brown.

That’s unfortunate, how will they cherry pick the 1-2 year group’s HPOs if they don’t finish SOS in a timely manner? 

[BFM this]

8 hours ago, Boomer6 said:

Not true on the SOS part. We're being told to expect to be sent home on Monday if a spending deal isn't passed. That's coming down from the AETC Deputy Commander Maj Gen Brown.

That would be full retard.

Don’t doubt it for a second.

[jazzdude]

That would be full retard.
Don’t doubt it for a second.

AETC guidance memo closes down SOS during the shutdown

[pawnman]

So, I guess the folks that were there on at the tail end of eligibility are just SOL?

[Boomer6]

Yeah, we're being told to expect to check out of the dorms at 1600 today if a deal isn't reached. The taxpayer gets to pay 700 captains to travel back and forth to Montgomery.

[uhhello]

4 hours ago, Boomer6 said:

Yeah, we're being told to expect to check out of the dorms at 1600 today if a deal isn't reached. The taxpayer gets to pay 700 captains to travel back and forth to Montgomery.

And a couple hundred SNCOs along with hundreds more NCOA students.  Nothing like an easy million dollars spent because there isn't funding :)  Can't wrap my head around that one. 

[17D_guy]

This is my favorite part when people claim the military "still works" when these things come along.

Sure, overseas we're still bombing people.  But it's a long logistics arm back to CONUS, and there's a significant amount of that that's no longer AD.

Imagine if they actually closed the CDC and Youth Center all the way.  Guess CC's will just direct folks to execute those Family Care Plans...

[Lawman]

This is my favorite part when people claim the military "still works" when these things come along.
Sure, overseas we're still bombing people.  But it's a long logistics arm back to CONUS, and there's a significant amount of that that's no longer AD.
Imagine if they actually closed the CDC and Youth Center all the way.  Guess CC's will just direct folks to execute those Family Care Plans...

Tammy Duckworth getting in front of cameras to having a “don’t lecture me!” Session was completely BS. Like if anybody sitting in Congress knows what this is doing by simply turning off The continuous cycle of force generation it’s you. You were a LtCol... you sat at the head of the table during battalion staff training calendar development. You know exactly what you voted for when you said “no, I’d rather we shit it down.”

The same dipsticks that were months ago screaming about why we didn’t have more help into Puerto Rico are now fine with the guard losing two training days off the Calendar to make a political statement. Guess when the guard in particular trains... the weekend. Guess who we call on to fill sandbags, put up aid stations, and drive aid convoys when the first line is overwhelmed... the guard.

[pawnman]

On 1/24/2018 at 4:09 PM, Lawman said:

 

Tammy Duckworth getting in front of cameras to having a “don’t lecture me!” Session was completely BS. Like if anybody sitting in Congress knows what this is doing by simply turning off The continuous cycle of force generation it’s you. You were a LtCol... you sat at the head of the table during battalion staff training calendar development. You know exactly what you voted for when you said “no, I’d rather we shit it down.”

The same dipsticks that were months ago screaming about why we didn’t have more help into Puerto Rico are now fine with the guard losing two training days off the Calendar to make a political statement. Guess when the guard in particular trains... the weekend. Guess who we call on to fill sandbags, put up aid stations, and drive aid convoys when the first line is overwhelmed... the guard.
 

 

I can't agree with you more.  "Don't tell me what the military needs!"  Well, Ma'am, what the military needs is their paychecks and the support of all the civilians that keep the mission running at home while we deploy for the 6-9th time.

Also, love "shit it down".

 

[nsplayr]

How mad were you about the 17-day shutdown in 2013 compared with the 69-hour shutdown this year? I’m genuinely curious without looking to open a huge can of worms.

And FWIW I’m generally not a supporter of shutdowns of any length. I want our country’s government to function well and am less open to arguments about why it should be made to stop than you might imagine.

Does it make a difference whether or not the shutdown is perceived to have happened because of a policy position you support?

My recap of the two situations:

This year’s shutdown was generally seen as happening because the GOP controlled Senate needed Dem votes to pass a spending bill and the Dem senators wanted a deal on protecting the “Dreamers.”   BL: full GOP government, Dems withheld votes as the minority to get something they wanted.

The 2013 shutdown was generally seen as happening because the Dem controlled Senate and GOP controlled house couldn’t agree on a spending bill. Ted Cruz in the Senate and several GOP house members wanted to defund parts of the ACA and Cruz held a brief talking filibuster and the GOP house members withheld their votes from their own Speaker’s proposed bill to try to force the issue. BL: split government, minority faction of the party controlling the House and one Senator withheld votes on and filibustered a negotiated compromise spending bill to get something they wanted.

Finally, +1 to the use of “shitdown” for labeling this year’s debacle

Edited January 27, 2018 by nsplayr

[MooseAg03]

The biggest difference I saw with the last shutdown was you didn’t have an asshole administration trying to make the shutdown as intrusive and painful as possible for the public. Fencing off open air monuments in 2013 was a real dick move, and I think it says a lot about the character of the last administration.

[HeloDude]

8 hours ago, nsplayr said:

This year’s shutdown was generally seen as happening because the GOP controlled Senate needed Dem votes to pass a spending bill and the Dem senators wanted a deal on protecting the “Dreamers.”   BL: full GOP government, Dems withheld votes as the minority to get something they wanted.

I agree--the GOP should have suspended the rules and allowed for a simple majority vote.  That being said, based off the Senate election map this year, the Dems got played by the GOP...