FDA requires lowering of Ambien dosage

[Stretch]

We used to run two 12-hour days, two 12-hour mid shifts, and then have two days off before going back to days and rinse/repeat. Did that for almost two years. At some point, your body just says "###### it" and either deals with it or has a psycotic breakdown. Either way, no more worries. We switched to two 8-hour days, two 8 hour swing, two 8-hour mids, three days off schedule for a while but that didn't work out so well. Now I'm just an office drone and shorted a few years off my life.

(Yes, I know that's not an discussion point, none the less a good point, but my experience with shitty sleep schedules.)

[guineapigfury]

Very true, and self-preservation is a compelling reason to want to be alert. I imagine it's a very shitty situation to be in an aircraft alone and fighting to stay awake. Particularly when your ability to accomplish the mission suffers. I don't have any experience with that.

I am not bitching about not getting issued Ambien, perhaps that's how it came off (sts). I am simply stating that in my experience, NyQuil is a lot more safe/effective than prescription meds. It has a lot less latency than Ambien, which I find very important.

You have to be a fairly accomplished drinker to be able to put yourself to sleep quickly without any adverse effects...I have not yet found that balance.

It didn't come off as bitching, I just never pass up an opportunity to advocate for booze downrange. Ambien leaves me dragging for about 24 hours, hangovers wear off after breakfast.

[Danny Noonin]

So, when I have to switch from 10 am briefs to 5 am briefs over a 2 day period, that's not good enough to warrant ambien. We should "adjust our sleep schedule over Sat/Sun." Yeah, because that works.

Really dude?

[Ram]

...hangovers wear off after breakfast.

You're not partying hard enough, my friend.

[Champ Kind]

Ambien leaves me dragging for about 24 hours, hangovers wear off after breakfast.

Signature block worthy.

[FallingOsh]

Turns out theres no way to get rid of leftover ambien, and they thought I was crazy for trying for having leftover ambien at the end of my tour.

Shoot me a PM and I'll provide you an address for mailing any leftover ambien.

[brabus]

You're kidding, right? A 5-hour shift over two days is bad? Not trying to bust your chops here, but there's a big discrepancy between your airframe and mine (what I flew--been retired for a few years) with regards to scheduling.

Yeah OK, that was a relatively benign example. I know there are plenty of dudes out there with way more jacked up schedules. How bout working 14 hr shifts for a week getting up at 2 pm and then getting 1.5 days to swing your schedule 12 hrs the other direction? I've done that one several times and I shit you not we were told that's not a valid reason for ambien. This is not a contest for who has the shitiest schedule (I lose, got it), it's a statement about how retarded the recent anti-ambien thing is.

[pawnman]

Mark my words, in 10 years the FDA will discover this pill gives you brain cancer. Don't take it....if the USAF can't build a flying schedule that depends on you medicating to make it work--that's their problem (i'm sure they'll compensate you for your brain cancer though)

The problem is, you won't stop being scheduled for those turns, especially during deployed operations. Fly for 14 hours, land, debrief, and go into crew rest for the next line. Our turns this year have been a 10pm show one night, followed by a 9am show for the following line. Schedulers only care that you've got 12 hours of crew rest for the next turn...what you do with it is your problem.

[guineapigfury]

The problem is, you won't stop being scheduled for those turns, especially during deployed operations. Fly for 14 hours, land, debrief, and go into crew rest for the next line. Our turns this year have been a 10pm show one night, followed by a 9am show for the following line. Schedulers only care that you've got 12 hours of crew rest for the next turn...what you do with it is your problem.

Well, that's only 11 hours. Your schedulers is bad at maths.

[Prozac]

The problem is, you won't stop being scheduled for those turns, especially during deployed operations. Fly for 14 hours, land, debrief, and go into crew rest for the next line. Our turns this year have been a 10pm show one night, followed by a 9am show for the following line. Schedulers only care that you've got 12 hours of crew rest for the next turn...what you do with it is your problem.

This is a leadership issue. If your leadership cares, your schedulers will care. I've seen it both ways. My last deployment was actually pretty good and I was only flipped once or twice. Knowing that the DO, ADOs, and schedulers would only flip you if absolutely necessary made that pill a little easier to swallow (sts).

[RogAir]

The problem is, you won't stop being scheduled for those turns, especially during deployed operations. Fly for 14 hours, land, debrief, and go into crew rest for the next line. Our turns this year have been a 10pm show one night, followed by a 9am show for the following line. Schedulers only care that you've got 12 hours of crew rest for the next turn...what you do with it is your problem.

Are you kidding me? You-as an aviator, have a responsibility to not fly when fatigued. If at alert, you are not ready to go, state, "I'm calling safety of flight due to fatigue". Shiite is going to hit the fan. And you are going to come under intense scrutiny, because for all the hundereds of times the brass has said "Safety First", Don't Fly Tired" "Make the Safe Call" they don't mean it, and go ape shiite when you do. So be prepared with your supporting evidence as to why their schedule is inhuman. If you do this a couple of times, as well as your fellow aviators, I guarantee the schedule will become human. If they can't make the schedule work, that is their problem; an aircraft accident, with you in it, is yours--control what you can.

Science is on your side--Man is not a machine.

[pawnman]

Well, that's only 11 hours. Your schedulers is bad at maths.

Show at 10pm, takeoff at midnight, land around 2 in the afternoon...then 9 am show the next morning. A constant, rapid cycling from a day to night schedule for six months. I'll take the Ambien if it means I can get a full 8 hours of sleep between flights.

As for not flying fatigued...who else is going to do it? We don't have the manpower anymore to give everyone comfy 9-5 schedules, especially in deployed operations. If taking Ambien means I get the required sleep during a rough schedule, then I'm still showing up rested, aren't I? You claim it's a leadership issue...guess what the leadership will ask when you are calling "knock-it-off" for ATO lines because you went from days to nights? I'm guessing at least one of those questions will be "why aren't you taking the medical help we've given you to adjust your schedule?".