Retirement / Separation Considerations

[Chida]

If palace front or chase the regs changed a few years back to allow leave carry over from reg to ARC, but I wouldn’t count on AD finance processes to be aware of this.

[ViperStud]

You can carry over leave from AD to ARC. I separated to become a DSG and transferred about 40 days. It took 3 months for a CMS case to go through. The leave just hangs there in the ether until you have a long set of orders to attach it to. Save that final LES!
 

The bigger issue in the future is going to be using it. If you become a long-term AGR, no big deal. As a part-timer: most units aren’t going to give two months of orders to burn 2-3 weeks of leave that was earned on AD. It’s absolutely an earned entitlement, but in practice what I’ve seen is an attitude of - use it where you earned it. Also, takes the same ~3 months for said leave to show up on any set of orders (same CMS case process), so if you’re on a 31-day stint of orders that leave isn’t even really available to you. 

[Smokin]

While you get paid less selling it back than you would make on terminal, a transition to a DSG position might be one good case for selling leave (assuming taking terminal doesn't make sense) as it will help you build that savings account up for getting a new job and potentially having pay problems, moving expenses, etc.

[Chida]

Found this in the leave reg:

6.10.2.4. Members transferring to the AFR cannot carryover leave from the RegAF, (except for members transferring into the AGR program with no break in service to include PALACE CHASE/PALACE FRONT), ANG or other services. Members must settle all leave accounts prior to transferring. (T-1)

I will say, though, that when I transferred from ANG to IRR I had 0.5 days that they did carry-over. Getting paid for that 0.5 days after transferring took about 1 year bc ARPC (SELRES pay guys) acted like they had never encountered an ANG ADOS order before. Then DFAS acted like they had never seen such a thing before. If I had known I would have been sure to cash it out before leaving ANG.

[SocialD]

5 hours ago, Chida said:

.....Then DFAS acted like they had never seen such a thing before. If I had known I would have been sure to cash it out before leaving ANG.

 

In general, I just assume that finance and DFAS are highly incompetent at every level...this helps with my blood pressure.  Took me way too many e-mails, over multiple months on a deployment, just to get them to STOP paying me the W/DEP BAH...of which I had never been!  Never thought it would be so hard to get the AF to pay me less.

 

To the question above, I'd just sell it.  You'll make more money overall and it will be a nice little addition to your savings prior to leaving AD. If you go on orders, you'll earn back plenty of leave and most squadrons work 4 day weeks, so you're need to take leave will likely drop dramatically.  You'll sell all kinds of leave back once you're in the ANG if you're not planning on being on long terms orders.  There is no limit on the number of leave days you can sell on orders under a year.  Another crazy thing is that you can actually carry over leave as a part-timer.  You just have to keep an eye on it, my days disappeared when I went on T10 orders for a recent deployment.  Had to call finance to have them put them back on the books when I went back to part time status.  

[QAZqaz]

On 4/14/2021 at 3:32 PM, bcuziknow said:

She gets exactly 50% of your mil ret based on number points you have/had when you divorce - whenever you start drawing it.  Sometimes more, rarely less.  20 yrs has nothing to do with it and for the most part, neither does AD/ARC.  When/if you buy your mil time towards FERS Civ time, that doesn’t eliminate your mil retirement..it has no bearing whatsoever. Only issue is when you choose to begin drawing it. Buying your mil time only increases your civ retirement, does nothing to your mil retirement. 

lots if variables in the above, however when maximized correctly, you can create quite the healthy/wealthy DEFINED BENEFIT RETIREMENT PLAN as a technician.  I have many career airline buds who envy my retirement pension(s)x4 - granted they are all legacy big airline bros who got royally fckd by bankruptcies and mergers. 

BLUF: your current (possibly ex) wife is entitled to and will get 50% of your 19+ yrs (insert grade here) military retirement whenever you begin drawing it, whether now or age 60. 
 

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but 50% doesn't always apply. For example, if you get married at 15 years into an active duty, then retire at 20, you are with your wife for only 5 years of your 20 served. Therefore, wouldn't she only be entitled to 25% of your retirement, not 50? That's how a lawyer once explained it to me, in Washington state.

[CaptainMorgan]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but 50% doesn't always apply. For example, if you get married at 15 years into an active duty, then retire at 20, you are with your wife for only 5 years of your 20 served. Therefore, wouldn't she only be entitled to 25% of your retirement, not 50? That's how a lawyer once explained it to me, in Washington state.

In your example, she’d only get 12.5%.


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[QAZqaz]

14 minutes ago, CaptainMorgan said:

In your example, she’d only get 12.5%.


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Yep that's what I meant. Not sure if it's state dependent. I know WA is community property law, that might factor in. 

Edited June 11, 2021 by QAZqaz

[Guardian]

It can be set by the judge. She can’t get more than 50% ever.

The judge can award more than the above example but they rarely do. Some states have formulas for it.

It’s not automatic either. I know people that wrote it into the divorce that they weren’t entitled to any of it and it was agreed upon because there were other considerations. It just depends on what you agree on or if there is no agreement, what the judge / state thinks.

[Guardian]

The crappy or good thing, depending on what phase of your career you were in when married and divorced, is there is a federal law that came out in 2015/16 timeframe that says the ex only gets awarded a percentage at the rank you were at when divorced.

So if you were married the first five years then she might only get credit for 5 years / 12.5% at captain rate but if you made it to LtCol then her 12.5% actually goes down a lot.

[Prefontaine]

Everyone I talk to about separating or retiring has 7-day opted, so dumb question inbound...

If I hit the end of my ADSC but I'm still ~1 year from a VML, can I still establish a DOS ~6 months prior to my desired DOS without my commander having any say in it? Is this true for Palace Front as well?

Only asking because I'm trying to figure out to what degree my CC can say "no" based on the perceived importance of the job I'm currently in. I hope to Palace Chase first, but we'll see about that one...

[Ryder1587]

You can apply for a separation 1 year from your ADSC being up and no later than 6 months prior to your separation date.  You can ask for a date less than 6 months but you need additional documents and a waiver from what I could tell.  If your ADSC is up it still goes to your commander but skips the wing CC and I think assignments. If you palace front you do the exact same thing but the recruiter should gen up a 1288 signed by your unit. Even if your CC says no, AFPC can still say yes. It’s just a recommendation. 

[SurelySerious]

You can apply for a separation 1 year from your ADSC being up and no later than 6 months prior to your separation date.  You can ask for a date less than 6 months but you need additional documents and a waiver from what I could tell.  If your ADSC is up it still goes to your commander but skips the wing CC and I think assignments. If you palace front you do the exact same thing but the recruiter should gen up a 1288 signed by your unit. Even if your CC says no, AFPC can still say yes. It’s just a recommendation. 

For ADSC expired and applying for a DOS less than 6 months, the waiver is inherent to the separation application process (no explicit waiver), and expect it to take about 6 weeks from pressing submit to approved. Ops tested, but MilPDS is slower to update after the CMS case from the separation application approval closes out.

[HuskyPilot]

Does anyone have a good contact info for someone at the separations desk at AFPC? I applied for separation following my UPT ADSC and was told expect 4-6 weeks, which jives with what others have said.  The tricky part is I just declined my upcoming PCS ADSC due to some last minute changing events in my personal life.

BL: I need to talk to someone to either get my approval fast tracked or at least a verbal so I have a "warm fuzzy" seeking civilian employment without the fear of the rug being pulled out at the last second. 

Thanks in advance.

[SurelySerious]

Does anyone have a good contact info for someone at the separations desk at AFPC? I applied for separation following my UPT ADSC and was told expect 4-6 weeks, which jives with what others have said.  The tricky part is I just declined my upcoming PCS ADSC due to some last minute changing events in my personal life.
BL: I need to talk to someone to either get my approval fast tracked or at least a verbal so I have a "warm fuzzy" seeking civilian employment without the fear of the rug being pulled out at the last second. 
Thanks in advance.

Have you tried calling the Total Force Service Center desk? They have actually been pretty helpful on hang ups.

https://www.afpc.af.mil/Support/

[kaputt]

Second calling the TFSC. The myPers “ask a question” feature is also pretty responsive. 

[HuskyPilot]

I've done the chat feature and called the total force guys. I am, however, waiting to see how emailing them shakes out.  

[Prefontaine]

On 6/28/2021 at 1:53 PM, Ryder1587 said:

You can apply for a separation 1 year from your ADSC being up and no later than 6 months prior to your separation date.  You can ask for a date less than 6 months but you need additional documents and a waiver from what I could tell.  If your ADSC is up it still goes to your commander but skips the wing CC and I think assignments. If you palace front you do the exact same thing but the recruiter should gen up a 1288 signed by your unit. Even if your CC says no, AFPC can still say yes. It’s just a recommendation. 

What are the odds of AFPC saying "no" when all your ADSCs are up? Do they have to come back with a counter-offer (for the DOS) or can they just say "no" and make you re-apply later? 

I'm not really sure when AFPC would say "no" when you're not asking for time off your ADSC, I just wouldn't put it past the AF to not screw with plans just because it's inconvenient for them.

[SurelySerious]

What are the odds of AFPC saying "no" when all your ADSCs are up? Do they have to come back with a counter-offer (for the DOS) or can they just say "no" and make you re-apply later? 
I'm not really sure when AFPC would say "no" when you're not asking for time off your ADSC, I just wouldn't put it past the AF to not screw with plans just because it's inconvenient for them.

If your ADSC is up, unless there is an official stop-loss, they really can’t say no.

[Prefontaine]

4 minutes ago, SurelySerious said:

If your ADSC is up, unless there is an official stop-loss, they really can’t say no.

Thanks for the clarification! The way the regs are written doesn't really inspire confidence.

[FLEA]

The fact they require 6 months is ridiculous. Any other job is happy with 2 weeks but the AF.... Fuck no, we want to make sure your decision to quit gives us time to make it painful. 

[jazzdude]

The fact they require 6 months is ridiculous. Any other job is happy with 2 weeks but the AF.... no, we want to make sure your decision to quit gives us time to make it painful. 

Civilian employers aren't required by law to ensure you have certain transition training and medical assessments done prior to separation/quitting.

Most of those laws are in place to make sure that 22-26 year old enlisted troop transitions well into civilian life following their enlistment.

Also, 2 weeks is generally just a courtesy, could be 0 (right to work goes both ways), could be more based on the employment contract.

[FourFans]

3 hours ago, FLEA said:

The fact they require 6 months is ridiculous. Any other job is happy with 2 weeks but the AF.... Fuck no, we want to make sure your decision to quit gives us time to make it painful. 

Agreed.  However, having gone through the process.  6 months was a good min required to get everything ram-jamed through the AF's incredibly archaic and convoluted systems.

[Waingro]

9 hours ago, jazzdude said:

Also, 2 weeks is generally just a courtesy, could be 0 (right to work goes both ways), could be more based on the employment contract.

Right-to-work means that you can't be compelled to join a union or pay union dues. Did you mean at-will employment?

[Waingro]

11 hours ago, FLEA said:

The fact they require 6 months is ridiculous. Any other job is happy with 2 weeks but the AF.... no, we want to make sure your decision to quit gives us time to make it painful. 

What's fun is that to retire it's only 4 months required, and you get 20 days of permissive in conjunction with retirement. With 60+ days of terminal leave, you can be doing your final out just 6 weeks after dropping papers.