Retirement / Separation Considerations

[jazzdude]

Right-to-work means that you can't be compelled to join a union or pay union dues. Did you mean at-will employment?

Yeah, good catch.

[Sua Sponte]

13 hours ago, jazzdude said:

 

 

Civilian employers aren't required by law to ensure you have certain transition training and medical assessments done prior to separation/quitting.

Most of those laws are in place to make sure that 22-26 year old enlisted troop transitions well into civilian life following their enlistment.

Also, 2 weeks is generally just a courtesy, could be 0 (right to work goes both ways), could be more based on the employment contract.

 

With at-will you could actually give two weeks notice and your employer could escort you out that day.

[Bode]

Anyone done any math on the Survivor Benefit Plan? My wife is retiring and we are trying to decide whether or not to take it. Eventually I will retire as well if that plays as a factor.


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[HossHarris]

2 hours ago, Bode said:

Anyone done any math on the Survivor Benefit Plan? My wife is retiring and we are trying to decide whether or not to take it. Eventually I will retire as well if that plays as a factor.


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It’s expensive for what it is ….. especially if you both have retirement income.  Compare its cost to term life and make your decision. 

when we did the math, frau would have to outlive me by 15-20 years and I’d have to die fairly young for it to make financial sense  

YMMV

“kids only” SBP is an order of magnitude cheaper. May be useful if you have crotchfruit and both mort out. 
 

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by HossHarris

[Waingro]

6 hours ago, Bode said:

Anyone done any math on the Survivor Benefit Plan? My wife is retiring and we are trying to decide whether or not to take it. Eventually I will retire as well if that plays as a factor.


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Like Hoss said, very expensive for what you get. But if you sign up for the kid's plan it's literally the same benefit (your spouse is the executor so it goes to him/her either way) for like $15 a month instead. Works until your youngest is 18 or 23 if in college. That's the only way I found that it makes any sense at all to do it. 

[disgruntledemployee]

5 hours ago, Bode said:

Anyone done any math on the Survivor Benefit Plan? My wife is retiring and we are trying to decide whether or not to take it. Eventually I will retire as well if that plays as a factor.


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A few of us co-workers all about to retire did some maths and we concluded that SBP was worth it.  But none of us were dual mil. 

For those that aren't dual military, here's what we did.

The comparison was with term.  I don't have the spreadsheet anymore, but we experimented with 1 Mil policies (maybe 2M) and used a cost index adjusted monthly payout of SBP as the rate of use.  The term policy payouts eventually ran out, even with using a few low risk investment interest rates after payout; unless you died young, had a high value policy, and spouse was able to use mostly interest only.  But you had to die.  Also, unless you get inflation/cost adjusted policies, the effective payout decreases. 

We saw that the money paid in to SBP paid for itself after a few years.  Quick math using static current year numbers, if you pay in for 20 years, spouse would get that amount back after 29 months.  I just looked up how much I pay and what 55% of my monthly check would be, and SBP would pay back 70% of 1 year's cost with 1 month of benefit, so that may be a better cost adjusted benchmark to use.  So we felt it was an easy way to help take care of the family and not deal with insurance companies.  And there's a reason SBP is govt subsidized.  You won't find a similarly priced product commercially.  And there's no health history to affect rates.  Or being a pilot.  Or etc.

All this to say, do the homework.

[Guardian]

Does anyone have any reading that they would recommend for this program? I am unfamiliar with it.

[panchbarnes]

For us it comes down to remaining life expectancy for the parents, age of children, ability of survivors to earn income, expected retirement lifestyle, monthly pay deducted, and expected payout.  Analyzing those factor and it wasn't worth it for us (everyone's situation is different).  To me, it might be a good deal for a younger person but not an old fogie.

@GuardianI've attached AFPC's overview here.

SBP Slides 15 (AFPC).pdf

[pcola]

The other problem is the wife loses the payout if she remarries. So if you are basing the calculations on you dying young, also consider that your young wife would likely remarry and lose the benefit. We just decided to go with an 800k term life policy for $45/month from AAFMA. Will be self-insured by the end of that policy


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[Tonka]

7 hours ago, pcola said:

The other problem is the wife loses the payout if she remarries.


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Only if they are younger than 55 when they remarry…

[FLEA]

If you have a DOS approved before a boards record end date but after it convenes do you still have to meet the board? For example, do I have to do a PRF if my DOS is after my board date but it is approved before PRFs are do? 

[Bigred]

1 hour ago, FLEA said:

If you have a DOS approved before a boards record end date but after it convenes do you still have to meet the board? For example, do I have to do a PRF if my DOS is after my board date but it is approved before PRFs are do? 

Why not just send it back blank? They can’t force you to fill it out. 

[Guardian]

Why not just send it back blank? They can’t force you to fill it out. 

Second. Or a one liner with your thanks but no thanks DOS is xxxxxxxx

[pawnman]

5 hours ago, FLEA said:

If you have a DOS approved before a boards record end date but after it convenes do you still have to meet the board? For example, do I have to do a PRF if my DOS is after my board date but it is approved before PRFs are do? 

You don't have to fill one out, period. Just like an OPR, this is your boss's problem, not yours. 

Edited August 21, 2021 by pawnman

[Lowspeedhidrag]

Searched for this info, but came up empty…..apologies if this is a double tap….Have approved retirement orders & final out, PTDY and terminal should begin in December. Looking at moving out of the area & starting a new job, just like 99% of retirees, but have concerns about randomly getting recalled & having to travel back for admin queep. In 19.6 years I’ve seen it all just about…..so maybe a bit jaded. Has anyone seen any ‘terminal leave shenanigans’? Thanks!

[Tonka]

On 8/25/2021 at 2:57 PM, Lowspeedhidrag said:

Searched for this info, but came up empty…..apologies if this is a double tap….Have approved retirement orders & final out, PTDY and terminal should begin in December. Looking at moving out of the area & starting a new job, just like 99% of retirees, but have concerns about randomly getting recalled & having to travel back for admin queep. In 19.6 years I’ve seen it all just about…..so maybe a bit jaded. Has anyone seen any ‘terminal leave shenanigans’? Thanks!

Haven’t seen or heard of it… thankfully most of our jobs require extensive training/currency that we spoil pretty quickly, so I’d imagine the fit would have to hit the shan for those games to start… possible, sure, probable guess not.

[SurelySerious]

Searched for this info, but came up empty…..apologies if this is a double tap….Have approved retirement orders & final out, PTDY and terminal should begin in December. Looking at moving out of the area & starting a new job, just like 99% of retirees, but have concerns about randomly getting recalled & having to travel back for admin queep. In 19.6 years I’ve seen it all just about…..so maybe a bit jaded. Has anyone seen any ‘terminal leave shenanigans’? Thanks!

2. No terminal shenanigans. I think all the AFPC and MPF shenanigans you’ll find will be right up until your final out.

[uhhello]

On 8/25/2021 at 11:57 AM, Lowspeedhidrag said:

Searched for this info, but came up empty…..apologies if this is a double tap….Have approved retirement orders & final out, PTDY and terminal should begin in December. Looking at moving out of the area & starting a new job, just like 99% of retirees, but have concerns about randomly getting recalled & having to travel back for admin queep. In 19.6 years I’ve seen it all just about…..so maybe a bit jaded. Has anyone seen any ‘terminal leave shenanigans’? Thanks!

Retirement outprocessing is mind blowingly simple.  I probably spent about 1/2 a day emailing/geting signatures and was done.  Medical takes the most lead time.  

[SurelySerious]

Retirement outprocessing is mind blowingly simple.  I probably spent about 1/2 a day emailing/geting signatures and was done.  Medical takes the most lead time.  

For separation, it felt like the first time anyone had ever tried to accomplish the process and there was a lot more wringing of hands and lack of answers. Just as a data point because I’m curious, were you above O-5?

[Lowspeedhidrag]

1 hour ago, uhhello said:

Retirement outprocessing is mind blowingly simple.  I probably spent about 1/2 a day emailing/geting signatures and was done.  Medical takes the most lead time.  

Hahahah….have to agree there! On the VMPF checklist there is a spot for dorm manager,….maybe they somehow didn’t notice that I’m a major that’s retiring versus an Amn that’s separating…..We'll see how medical goes……aside from go/no go pills, I can count the number of times on one hand that I’ve ever had to go to the MDG (PHA/predeployment excluded)…..

Edited August 30, 2021 by Lowspeedhidrag
Grammar

[uhhello]

3 hours ago, Lowspeedhidrag said:

Hahahah….have to agree there! On the VMPF checklist there is a spot for dorm manager,….maybe they somehow didn’t notice that I’m a major that’s retiring versus an Amn that’s separating…..We'll see how medical goes……aside from go/no go pills, I can count the number of times on one hand that I’ve ever had to go to the MDG (PHA/predeployment excluded)…..

Trick is to tell them you are final outing in a couple days despite what the checklist says.  Shit starts flying off that list with ease.  

[Khruangbin33]

Unsure if anyone has seen this yet, but there is some interesting data in this AWC paper from a finance O-6.  Edit: Timing is worth thousands, at least until this gets fixed.  Big takeaways (If you are on the left side of your retirement date):

-- Plan to retire in a month that ends a fiscal quarter (March, June, December)

-- Never retire in September

-- If able, retire in March to realize the best historical chance of highest pay

Tin foil hat time...Broader question (with the caveat that I'm a dumbass):  Given all the turmoil that is going on (debt ceiling, US govt ability to service its debts), how much faith is everyone placing in their pension payout 10-15 years from now?  Are you planning to cover your own expenses with something like a 4% SWR and viewing the pension as a bonus? Or do you believe the point at which you can't withdraw your own money is coterminous with the point at which your monthly pension payment stops occurring?

Edit: Added why this attachment matters - namely COLA calculations as related to your retirement date.  Sorry folks, I been drankin.

The_COLA_Trap-PSP-Fowler.pdf

Edited October 6, 2021 by Khruangbin33
I been drankin

[AC&W]

57 minutes ago, Khruangbin33 said:

AWC paper from a finance O-6. 

A career Cyberspace Operator, Colonel…but is best known for programming the vMPF ribbons display used daily by over 500,000 total force personnel.

 

I’ll have what you are drinking! 
 

Cheers, thanks for sharing.

[Stoker]

While inflation might eat away at retirement benefits somewhat (i.e. I wouldn't be shocked if in times of crisis you see COLAs set a point lower than inflation to save money), Congress has shown itself to be incredibly responsive to groups like military retirees, social security pensioners, etc. Because these groups live in every single district and have a huge financial incentive to lobby their reps, the reps have a huge incentive to keep them happy. No Congressman wants to see his opponent next election with an ad that says he made retirees live on the street. 

[Tank]

I can retire in April 2023.  My family wants to move to where we’re retiring to post-military in December 2022 so my sons can start second semester at their new school.  
 

My question: will the military move me for my final move earlier than my retirement date?