Retirement / Separation Considerations

[filthy_liar]

On 1/26/2023 at 11:53 AM, mcbush said:

Got a stupid question for the group. I flew C-17s on AD for ten years, separated in 2022, and am now a non-flying reservist and airline guy. I still haven't taken the time to go through the VA medical process, partially because there's honestly just nothing really wrong with me (at least medically). The only thing I can think of is that I probably tore/pulled a muscle in my shoulder at SERE ages ago, but it doesn't affect my range of motion, mobility, or strength in any way. I used to only feel it when forced to position that shoulder one particular way for extended periods, i.e. during long contacts in AR, but now I go months at a time without noticing it at all. In fact, I don't think I've thought about it once since separating. The shoulder thing isn't anywhere in my medical records because I was, of course, a 22 year old that wanted to go fly and spend as little time at the clinic as possible.

I also don't have tinnitus and I'm not going to tell them I do, my hearing is somehow better than most teenagers, my joints are fine, no PTSD, no sleep apnea, etc. 

I guess my question is: should I still reach out and go through this process in hopes that they "find" something wrong with me? Or should I just accept that I was one of the lucky ones who came out unscathed?

mcbush - go through the process.  and if the VA tells you that you probably have tinitius, don't turn that down.

 

[ATIS]

8 hours ago, filthy_liar said:

mcbush - go through the process.  and if the VA tells you that you probably have tinitius, don't turn that down.

 

Agree. 
 

BK
 

Going through the process now after a 30-year career both on AD and flying/non-flying reserve. I stayed away from any claiming until statutory retirement/years of service.
***If you have any ache/pain/issue, get it in your med record in some form now or just before you separate (go back and read this sentence again)***
If you saw a non-Mil doctor about any issue while you were still in uniform (sports med, colonoscopy, appendicitis, emergency room visit for a garden tool accident, loud VTCs…the list goes on) ***get it in your record***.  That should invoke a service connection relationship even if you are perfectly fine today. VA benefits comes down to two things…is there an issue/potential issue you incurred during your period of service, and is the issue something you have to deal with. I’ve got hearing loss (both ears and a really bad right ear), tinnitus, kidney stones, excess protein in lab work (had no idea about that one), PF in one foot, and I had my appendix out while on AD years ago (they actually measured my scars in the providers office). You go to independent VA appointments to check on all of those conditions with a VA provider (PITA but that’s the process…so embrace it). In my case all of those are service connected (except my left ear hearing loss which I am asking for a higher review because I am like ??WTF??). I really didn’t have a say in any of that determination (but if you don’t like it you can push back). 
What draws you compensation (now or later) is if that service connected issue is something you deal with (currently or in the future).  Tinnitus, affects my current work and life everyday…yep (10%).  PF, every freaking day…yep (but still waiting to see how that is going to be rated). Right/left ear hearing loss, no rating (but I will have hearing aids later in life so those will be paid for because of their service connection). Kidney stones, no rating. I find that funny since they absolutely suck and I’m a ticking time bomb. You have to pass X amount (3?) of stone(s) per year to get a rating…I only passed one this past Summer so I didn’t make the cut. I love that waiting game. 
VA a long process but you get through it. Start the VSO review about 4-6 months out if you have an established retirement date (I used the VFW office out of Fort Belvoir and she was great). If you start afterward, not a huge deal but you have a year to start the process  (they will back pay your rating $$$ to your retirement date if eligible).
Another note:  Check your VA paperwork. At the end of the process, you receive a data package about all your issues and the VAs determination of service connection and rating (which equals potentially $$$ each month). That’s where you learn the criteria of your conditions Vs compensation. I’m pushing back on the hearing for two reasons. Left ear not service connected; no idea how they got that determination.  Second, my really bad right ear: The data package sent to me had nothing about the worse hearing levels in that ear…they just cut and paste the left ear info/paragraph into the right ear paragraph (not joking, exact cut and paste). I immediately called the VA and had them add that observation in my higher level review request. Would have never caught that if I didn’t read over the package. 
 

Like everyone else here I know some really broken people that don’t draw anything/hardly anything…but yet others (that “seem” outwardly fine)…draw 80+%. I try not to judge but it’s hard not to in some cases. It’s not a perfect system, but you/we have earned it. Since hanging up the uniform on a massively dynamic and non-standard career that kept me in the “fun” much longer that I could have imagined, I’m more interested in having care established for my long term self than worried about being NPQ for flying or mobilization to do the mission. 
 

I blame Scooter for the hearing loss. His Tanker love fest SVTCs were so loud in the CAOC, the MARLO and I can both make the service connection with ease (Congrats on your fini flight and long career buddy, even though you wanted to fly Navy all along). 
 

Cheers All

ATIS 

[CaptainMorgan]

So a couple years off, but is their any downside to front loading TSP so as to max it out prior to a mid-year retirement? Would it limit the amount you can put in a 401k in the same tax year with the new employer?


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[SocialD]

1 hour ago, CaptainMorgan said:

So a couple years off, but is their any downside to front loading TSP so as to max it out prior to a mid-year retirement? Would it limit the amount you can put in a 401k in the same tax year with the new employer?

 

 

Not to my knowledge, as that's exactly what I'm doing this year.  Yes it would limit what you can put in your 401k with another employer this year because your 402(g) limit ($22,500 this year), which encompasses 401k and TSP.  Your 401k contributions and TSP contributions combined, can not exceed the 402(g) limit.  So if you maxed it out, it would keep you from putting into your 401k at a new employer, but it does not stop the company from putting in their contributions since their contributions are subject to the 415(c) limit of $66,000.  

Depending on who you go to work for, you may still have the option to contribution to your retirement plan up to the $66,000 limit.  As an example, at DAL we have an "after-tax" option, which would allow me to contribute more to my Delta Pilot Savings Plan if I wanted.   

Edited January 29, 2023 by SocialD

[TreeA10]

On 1/30/2023 at 12:28 AM, ATIS said:

Agree. 
 

BK
 

Going through the process now after a 30-year career both on AD and flying/non-flying reserve. I stayed away from any claiming until statutory retirement/years of service.
***If you have any ache/pain/issue, get it in your med record in some form now or just before you separate (go back and read this sentence again)***
If you saw a non-Mil doctor about any issue while you were still in uniform (sports med, colonoscopy, appendicitis, emergency room visit for a garden tool accident, loud VTCs…the list goes on) ***get it in your record***.  

Cheers All

ATIS 

Yeah, what he said.

I started the process after turning 60 after an active duty then reserves career. Tinnitus was easy. Neck injury was documented. However, frostbite from Land Survival and Arctic Survival was not. Raynaud's  (blood flow shutting off to fingers) triggered by cold at Arctic Survival was not documented because I was afraid they would ground me or boot me out of Alaska. This is a significant % according to the VA office. Hearing loss due my time as an Armor Battalion ALO surrounded by loud ass tanks wasn't documented but easily proved but wish I had done a hearing test after getting surprised by an M1 main gun firing only 30 yards away. 

So, even if it is just one line in your medical records, it is in your records for later use. Document everything. 

 

[zach braff]

I recently received an 80% rating.  Filed BDD claim in May, retired in September, award received in late December.  I worked with a VSO and contrary to some experiences on this thread mine was excellent.

We went through my records, he offered his recommendations which I mostly agreed with but did not claim everything.  For example he saw a mandatory mental health screening and without details he listed that in his draft, but I'd never been seen for an actual issue so didn't feel right about including it and pulled it from the app (oddly enough my comprehensive exam doc added added a follow on mental health appointment but I didn't receive any rating for it).

Ultimately I had one 50% rating, another 20%, and several 10%s that worked out to 80%.  There were also several 0%s but that remain in my file.  In the end I was a little surprised but there wasn't any gaming of the system and I used only what was in my records and offered honest explanations during my appointments.

One note... they denied my claim for dependents which I'm having to re-file for and should be fixed shortly.  Should have included marriage & birth certificates in my app it seems.

TLDR:  Long process but ultimately what appears to be a fair rating based on VA's guidelines and my records, albeit a little higher than I expected.

ZB

[FLEA]

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/military-pilots-medical-exam/

 

Study released recently that discusses the above. Military pilots 20% more likely to hide health information from flight surgeons than civilian airline pilots. Follows up a 2019 study that showed 80% of pilots in general likely to hide health information from a flight surgeon to preserve flight status. 

[nsplayr]

Numbers seem low 😂 I’d ballpark it at close to 100%, other than maybe the brand new LTs who legit aren’t broken or old yet.

[Danger41]

I’m honestly more worried about any kind of mental health help for aircrew than the physical stuff (which is also abysmal). There are plenty of guys that could get some mental health* counseling but won’t do it out of fear of permanent DNIF.

*Back in the POTFF days when SOCOM was laying for psychs to be in squadrons, we had one and a bunch of guys talked to her. Most of it was marital issue type stuff and not deployment PTSD stuff. Naturally, that’s gone now.

[uhhello]

4 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

I’m honestly more worried about any kind of mental health help for aircrew than the physical stuff (which is also abysmal). There are plenty of guys that could get some mental health* counseling but won’t do it out of fear of permanent DNIF.

*Back in the POTFF days when SOCOM was laying for psychs to be in squadrons, we had one and a bunch of guys talked to her. Most of it was marital issue type stuff and not deployment PTSD stuff. Naturally, that’s gone now.

Have dealt with POTFF alot.  Its a game changer.  We had a MFLACC in house for a while too.  She was the absolute best.  Nothing on your records.  I referred SO many folk her way and they all loved it.  ALOT different than those we forced or nudged the official AF mental or substance abuse route.  We had guys do the absolute right thing and get the help they needed only to be held up by miles of red tape and agencies not working with each other to get the person back in the saddle like they truly needed.

[FLEA]

43 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

Numbers seem low 😂 I’d ballpark it at close to 100%, other than maybe the brand new LTs who legit aren’t broken or old yet. prepared for their phase check and tactical DNIF.

FIFY. 

[nsplayr]

31 minutes ago, FLEA said:

FIFY. 

Great point!

[Springer]

7 hours ago, FLEA said:

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/military-pilots-medical-exam/

 

Study released recently that discusses the above. Military pilots 20% more likely to hide health information from flight surgeons than civilian airline pilots. Follows up a 2019 study that showed 80% of pilots in general likely to hide health information from a flight surgeon to preserve flight status. 

When I left USAFE for TAC I was able to hand carry my medical records.  I purged the BS that my squadron FS kept me grounded for a few months.  Had to go to the head USAFE FS that over ruled him.  40 years later I can still pass a Class 1 physical. 

 

[FourFans]

7 hours ago, Springer said:

...40 years later I can still pass a Class 1 physical. 

Truth about USAF FS sucking at their jobs aside...let's not pretend that the Flying Class 1 is a high bar.

Edited March 29, 2023 by FourFans

[ClearedHot]

20 hours ago, Danger41 said:

I’m honestly more worried about any kind of mental health help for aircrew than the physical stuff (which is also abysmal). There are plenty of guys that could get some mental health* counseling but won’t do it out of fear of permanent DNIF.

*Back in the POTFF days when SOCOM was laying for psychs to be in squadrons, we had one and a bunch of guys talked to her. Most of it was marital issue type stuff and not deployment PTSD stuff. Naturally, that’s gone now.

On the USAF side access to mental health care without retribution should be SOP for our service, especially for those in combat operations.  I won't go into all the details but I fought an EPIC battle with Big Blue years ago to keep CLEARED Ops Psychs available to our aviators in the AFSOC world.  I am obviously not an RPA operator but the RPA community in particular needs this service.  I spent a lot of time commanding and working in their world and my battle resulted in me having to brief the Under Secretary of the Air Force when the Manpower people tried to take them away our cleared Ops Psychs.  I used the following argument to successfully keep access to this critical care capability:

"Sir, a lot of people underestimate and overlook RPA operators believing they are fighting the war from a box and they get to go home every night, someone insinuating that is an easy way to fight a war and it reduces the risk to their mental health.  In fact, our RPA operators wage a far more personal form of combat than most and I believe it defiantly impacts mental health, especially in the long-term.  I would ask you to consider this small vignette.  Many of our RPA operators will observe the same house, watching the same person for a month or more at a time.  As they develop a pattern of life they observe the target kiss his kids each day then send them off to school, they watch him interact with his wife, they watch him pray.  The interaction while one way becomes very personal.  One morning our RPA operator wakes up, has breakfast with his wife and kids, kisses his kids and walks them to the bus stop then heads off to the GCU.  He sits down and five minutes later the phone rings telling him or her to kill the target.  Our RPA operator professionally runs the approvals and traps and a short time later launches a missile or two that turns the target into pink mist, but it doesn't end there.  Our RPA operator stays over the objective and watches the body in high definition for hours to see who responds.  He or she can sees the kids face and grief when they discover their father was shredded into a lifeless mass of meat, they see his wife try to put the pieces back together and they watch as the body is eventually carried off by other friends and family.  At the end of his or her shift they drive home and sit down at the dinner table where the family asks "how was your day?"  How does our RPA operator possibly answer that question to his family.  This form of combat is different than our other platforms that deploy.  While on deployment manned operators have a separation that provides a buffer to process everything that happens, the live, sleep and eat with the camaraderie of others who are experiencing the same effects of combat, they have the time it takes to get home from a deployment to decompress and adjust, and they have time at home away from combat when their deployment is over.  Our RPA operators have none of that, in fact they are so critically manned that they often can't take leave, the only get one day off per week and they do this in an endless cycle that can last for years on end.   Make no mistake the person he or she killed was a bad person and they deserved to die, but we never want our warriors to lose their humanity in the process."

Ultimately this argument worked and we were able to keep a TS cleared Ops Psych that was with our RPA folks everyday.  I will laugh when someone plays Dos Gringos Predator Euology but I will never disparage our folks in this community, they carry a different burden than most and they do it without an end in sight.

And, @Danger41 , they may be the SEALs of the Sky, but I hold the Draco's on the same regard.  Most don't know the impact a little PC-12 has had on the battlefield or the commitment and cost to your community.

[tac airlifter]

9 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

On the USAF side access to mental health care without retribution should be SOP for our service, especially for those in combat operations.  I won't go into all the details but I fought an EPIC battle with Big Blue years ago to keep CLEARED Ops Psychs available to our aviators in the AFSOC world.  I am obviously not an RPA operator but the RPA community in particular needs this service.  I spent a lot of time commanding and working in their world and my battle resulted in me having to brief the Under Secretary of the Air Force when the Manpower people tried to take them away our cleared Ops Psychs.  I used the following argument to successfully keep access to this critical care capability:

"Sir, a lot of people underestimate and overlook RPA operators believing they are fighting the war from a box and they get to go home every night, someone insinuating that is an easy way to fight a war and it reduces the risk to their mental health.  In fact, our RPA operators wage a far more personal form of combat than most and I believe it defiantly impacts mental health, especially in the long-term.  I would ask you to consider this small vignette.  Many of our RPA operators will observe the same house, watching the same person for a month or more at a time.  As they develop a pattern of life they observe the target kiss his kids each day then send them off to school, they watch him interact with his wife, they watch him pray.  The interaction while one way becomes very personal.  One morning our RPA operator wakes up, has breakfast with his wife and kids, kisses his kids and walks them to the bus stop then heads off to the GCU.  He sits down and five minutes later the phone rings telling him or her to kill the target.  Our RPA operator professionally runs the approvals and traps and a short time later launches a missile or two that turns the target into pink mist, but it doesn't end there.  Our RPA operator stays over the objective and watches the body in high definition for hours to see who responds.  He or she can sees the kids face and grief when they discover their father was shredded into a lifeless mass of meat, they see his wife try to put the pieces back together and they watch as the body is eventually carried off by other friends and family.  At the end of his or her shift they drive home and sit down at the dinner table where the family asks "how was your day?"  How does our RPA operator possibly answer that question to his family.  This form of combat is different than our other platforms that deploy.  While on deployment manned operators have a separation that provides a buffer to process everything that happens, the live, sleep and eat with the camaraderie of others who are experiencing the same effects of combat, they have the time it takes to get home from a deployment to decompress and adjust, and they have time at home away from combat when their deployment is over.  Our RPA operators have none of that, in fact they are so critically manned that they often can't take leave, the only get one day off per week and they do this in an endless cycle that can last for years on end.   Make no mistake the person he or she killed was a bad person and they deserved to die, but we never want our warriors to lose their humanity in the process."

Ultimately this argument worked and we were able to keep a TS cleared Ops Psych that was with our RPA folks everyday.  I will laugh when someone plays Dos Gringos Predator Euology but I will never disparage our folks in this community, they carry a different burden than most and they do it without an end in sight.

And, @Danger41 , they may be the SEALs of the Sky, but I hold the Draco's on the same regard.  Most don't know the impact a little PC-12 has had on the battlefield or the commitment and cost to your community.

If our leaders led like you, I would not have retired.  🇺🇸

[CaptainMorgan]

If our leaders led like you, I would not have retired.  

And if ClearedHot led like he claims he did, he might have been your leader.


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[StoleIt]

Has anyone had their base finance push back on the 20 days of PTDY if you are separating? Mine is saying that is a benefit only for people who are retiring.

The DAFI 36-3003 states: "pre-separation or retirement relocation activity such as job or residence search and is eligible under as a: (1) Voluntary separation incentive separatee."

I can't find the definition of "incentive separatee" anywhere.

[Guardian]

Just ask your cc if it’s cool if you disappear for 20 days. Go straight to the man and cut out shoe clerks. That’s your answer.

[FLEA]

You don't see many of these but this might be worth it. Especially if they provide the ATP. 

[xaarman]

13 hours ago, FLEA said:

You don't see many of these but this might be worth it. Especially if they provide the ATP. 

They are getting desperate. 

 

[Chicken]

I'm finally hitting the button next week and looking to figure out my retirement date.  I hit 23 years in June.. but I've had it and not sure I can make it for exactly 23 years.  I want to do skillbridge and found a program that is 151-180 days.  I also have about 50 days of leave, will accrue leave while on skillbridge and am counting on the 20 days PTDY.  From what I understand skillbridge, PTDY, and terminal leave can't exceed 180 days total.  If that's the case do I take the PTDY and skillbridge together, use my leave I have now as normal leave (as opposed to terminal) and the leave I accrue on skillbridge I sell back once retired?  What's the most efficient way to work this IAW the AFI?

[nunya]

On 4/1/2023 at 9:22 AM, xaarman said:

They are getting desperate. 

Yeah, I’d pass on that one.
 

As a larger point, do a skillbridge in a non-pilot industry. The airlines will still be an option afterwards and you’ll have some connections outside our typical wheelhouse. 

[Chicken]

Well I was initially going to set a June 1 retirement date.. upon doing some research folks have said that March 1 would be a better date based on it "historically providing the best initial COLA, because it results in the biggest difference between two quarters of average inflation".  Any truth to this?  What exactly is this talking about and will it make that big of a difference between June and March?

Does this mean I am locked into a COLA % based on the month I retire?  For 2022 the difference would be 8.7% vs 4.4%...

Edited June 28, 2023 by Chicken

[BONE WSO]

4 hours ago, Chicken said:

Well I was initially going to set a June 1 retirement date.. upon doing some research folks have said that March 1 would be a better date based on it "historically providing the best initial COLA, because it results in the biggest difference between two quarters of average inflation".  Any truth to this?  What exactly is this talking about and will it make that big of a difference between June and March?

Does this mean I am locked into a COLA % based on the month I retire?  For 2022 the difference would be 8.7% vs 4.4%...

That idea came from this paper. https://themilitarywallet.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/The_COLA_Trap-PSP-Fowler.pdf