Retirement / Separation Considerations

[nsplayr]

It should be that so long as you are in the service for all of 2018, whatever decision you make by 31 Dec 18 stands. With that many YOS and your intention to make it to at least 20 good years via a reserve gig, it should be a no-brainer for you to stick with Legacy. To do that, just do nothing; you have to opt-in to BRS.

On a side note, I'd do everything possible not to have a break in service, it just complicates everything down the road. GL!

*YMMV, I'm not a lawyer, make sure you do your own due diligence with all financial decisions*

Edited December 8, 2018 by nsplayr

[Disco_Nav963]

^ Two. No break in service = 6 months of free Tricare via TAMP. A $1,440ish value, yours for only $0 dollars.

[isuguy1234]

Thanks for the inputs

[herkbier]

Heard a rumor recently, but am not knowledgeable on the right pubs to investigate myself..

My UPT ADSC expires in two years and I want to separate at that time. I’m currently in an X-Band and expect I’ll get tagged for a deployment. My vulnerability period runs from 8 months prior to 2 months prior to my ADSC.

Day one of my deployment can fall anywhere in that 6 month window, and I can expect a 6 month deployment. I’m told I can get tagged for a deployment up to 12 months out. But, I can’t apply for separation until 12 months prior to my ADSC. 

Which means there’s a large window where I can tagged with a deployment that will take me past my ADSC, without having had the opportunity to drop papers and since I’ll have been tagged with a deployment, can’t separate til I return. 

Does this sound right to you guys? I’ve heard this from a few individuals and get lost in the AFIs when I attempt to figure it out. While I don’t really want to do a non-flying deployment, it is what it is.. I definitely don’t want to extend past my ADSC. Palace Chasing is the only thing I can think of that may protect me from this situation. 

[Homestar]

If you are tasked with a deployment that takes you beyond your ADSC you opt out and establish a separation date. 

Edited December 15, 2018 by Homestar

[Guest]

Heard a rumor recently, but am not knowledgeable on the right pubs to investigate myself..
My UPT ADSC expires in two years and I want to separate at that time. I’m currently in an X-Band and expect I’ll get tagged for a deployment. My vulnerability period runs from 8 months prior to 2 months prior to my ADSC.
Day one of my deployment can fall anywhere in that 6 month window, and I can expect a 6 month deployment. I’m told I can get tagged for a deployment up to 12 months out. But, I can’t apply for separation until 12 months prior to my ADSC. 
Which means there’s a large window where I can tagged with a deployment that will take me past my ADSC, without having had the opportunity to drop papers and since I’ll have been tagged with a deployment, can’t separate til I return. 
Does this sound right to you guys? I’ve heard this from a few individuals and get lost in the AFIs when I attempt to figure it out. While I don’t really want to do a non-flying deployment, it is what it is.. I definitely don’t want to extend past my ADSC. Palace Chasing is the only thing I can think of that may protect me from this situation. 

X-band means nothing. They can deploy you as long you have 6+ months ADSC left.


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[MooseAg03]

If you are tasked with a deployment that takes you beyond your ADSC you opt out and establish a separation date. 

Is this true with a deployment less than a 365? I understood that until you establish a separation date you can still be tasked with something that would extend past your ADSC. A 365 however, can be 3 day opted. But we (as officers) have an Indefinite separation date until we raise our hand and say we want to quit. Am I totally wrong?


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[jazzdude]

Is this true with a deployment less than a 365? I understood that until you establish a separation date you can still be tasked with something that would extend past your ADSC. A 365 however, can be 3 day opted. But we (as officers) have an Indefinite separation date until we raise our hand and say we want to quit. Am I totally wrong?


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I think you're right, can't turn down a 179 if it's tasked before you have a separation date.

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[Chuck17]

9 hours ago, MooseAg03 said:

But we (as officers) have an Indefinite separation date until we raise our hand and say we want to quit. Am I totally wrong?


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Minor point/Quibbling: Or until you make LtCol at which point a DOS is established automatically at the 28 year point. 

Chuck

[herkbier]

11 hours ago, MooseAg03 said:

Is this true with a deployment less than a 365? I understood that until you establish a separation date you can still be tasked with something that would extend past your ADSC. A 365 however, can be 3 day opted. But we (as officers) have an Indefinite separation date until we raise our hand and say we want to quit. Am I totally wrong?

This is my understanding as well.. I’d love to find out I’m wrong. In the event I’m not.. any ideas on how to avoid this?

[Homestar]

14 hours ago, MooseAg03 said:

Is this true with a deployment less than a 365? I understood that until you establish a separation date you can still be tasked with something that would extend past your ADSC. A 365 however, can be 3 day opted. But we (as officers) have an Indefinite separation date until we raise our hand and say we want to quit. Am I totally wrong?


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I misunderstood. I believe you are correct regarding deployments less than 365. 

[Homestar]

2 hours ago, herkbier said:

This is my understanding as well.. I’d love to find out I’m wrong. In the event I’m not.. any ideas on how to avoid this?

Establish a separation date. I think you can do this NET 1-year out. 

[di1630]

Establish a separation date. I think you can do this NET 1-year out. 

Yes and you can also cancel that DOS should you decide you want to stay and the AF has a need for you.


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[MooseAg03]

This is my understanding as well.. I’d love to find out I’m wrong. In the event I’m not.. any ideas on how to avoid this?

You state your vulnerability runs from 8 months to 2 months prior to your ADSC. I would say to establish a DOS at 8.5 months out and roll the dice they won’t try to send you and get you back 30 days prior to your DOS.


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[herkbier]

3 hours ago, Homestar said:

Establish a separation date. I think you can do this NET 1-year out. 

 

1 hour ago, MooseAg03 said:

You state your vulnerability runs from 8 months to 2 months prior to your ADSC. I would say to establish a DOS at 8.5 months out and roll the dice they won’t try to send you and get you back 30 days prior to your DOS.


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Copy, I plan to establish a separation date right at the one year out point--I'm not too concerned with showing my cards early.  But, there is a 6 month window prior to being able to establish the separation date, yet still vulnerable to get tagged with a deployment that will take me past my ADSC that I'm concerned about. I know it's not common to get tagged 12 months prior to a deployment, but it's not unheard of either..

Edited December 16, 2018 by herkbier

[mhunt2370]

Question regarding OCONUS separation... My DEROS will occur 9 months before my ADSC is up, when is the earliest I could apply for separation or set a DOS for at the end of my ADSC?

If I don't or cannot apply for separation before my DEROS, then I have to be given an assignment, right?  (Which I would then 7-day opt)

[NKAWTG]

18 hours ago, mhunt2370 said:

Question regarding OCONUS separation... My DEROS will occur 9 months before my ADSC is up, when is the earliest I could apply for separation or set a DOS for at the end of my ADSC?

If I don't or cannot apply for separation before my DEROS, then I have to be given an assignment, right?  (Which I would then 7-day opt)

Return from overseas is a one year PCS commitment instead of two.  You can preemptively ask to extend the DEROS to your separation date, or 7 day opt and have them extend your DEROS to the separation date.  Remote chance they could send you anyway and just take the 7 months.  Just watch what you sign because there is every chance they could try screw you over on it.

[IMUA]

@Lifer

Advice on...

-Would should I start the process to get medically approved to separate?

-Any other Limfacs that I’m missing?

I imagine this is the most appropriate and generic place for advice on the matter: being medically prepared for separation. This is not specifically about a Medical Separation/Retirement via Medical Evaluation Board (MEB)/Integrated Disability Evaluation System (IDES) although many lines cross all the way through to the VA.  These are just the cliff note items I would've started thinking about sooner rather than later in hindsight loosely in this order also.

1) (Realistically) figure out your end game for your known medical situation/record. Do you have a 9-5 lined up and don't care? Do you want to go Guard/Reserve/other branch? Do you want to attempt a medical separation/retirement? Are you going to need an FAA medical post separation/retirement? With your end game in mind...

2) Go to records and get a PRINTED copy IMMEDIATELY (yes records are electronic now but ask to have them printed). Once in hand READ every page back and front.  The goal here is to get to know your record and know what AF Medicine has thought of you throughout your career. You want to have more than a general "who, what, when, where and why" of your history in black and white without a doctor filtering it. But what are you looking for...

3) Research (depending on your end game).  But the overarching research topic pertains to Veteran Service Officer/Offices (VSOs).  They are not all created equal and some have better track records with the VA than others but researching them can help no matter your end game.  If you don't have the time to sift through thousands of sheets of your medical record a VSO will aide in that but I understood them to do this so they could make a subsequent claim to the VA.  Regardless they know what they're looking for regarding follow on VA claims.

3)a. Do you have a 9-5 lined up and don't care? I recommend caring.  Even if private healthcare is basically in hand knowing your military record thoroughly now can pay dividends if things that happened while in service get more severe and you want to take it to the VA.  Keep in touch with a VSO should the need arise to file your claim.

3)b. Do you want to go Guard/Reserve/other branch? The biggest issue with this option in today's deploy or get out climate is meeting deployability standards which feeds into Retention Standards.  The Medical Standards Directory (MSD) gives the cliff notes on retainability and waiverablity for the different classes of military physicals.  Also 48-123 (or at least it was) was a good starting point regarding AF medical standards.  DoD instructions related to medical standards will also factor into this.

3)c. Do you want to attempt a medical separation/retirement? For this the deploy or get out climate could work in your favor.  If you do not meet deployability standards you theoretically do not meet Retention Standards and should be entered into the MEB/IDES per the black and white of the 48-123. The Medical Standards Directory (MSD) is a great resource along with 36-3212 and 32-2110.  Various DoD instructions govern this also readily available on the google.  Oh and probably the biggest help for this is pebforums.com.  There are literally decades of data related to MEBs on there along with very experienced moderators who can help in a professional capacity with representation.

3)d. Are you going to need an FAA medical post separation/retirement? All i know via the interwebs was some dudes had their FAA medicals pulled for Military Medical issues that they did not disclose on initial applications.  I don't know the specifics as to how the FAA got wind of the issues but I think there was a thread on BO at one time with more specifics.  All this to say for dudes needing an FAA medical post service accomplishing item 2 will get you in know on your medical history written by medical professionals.  Also when I applied, the FAA wanted additional data on my condition and I was able to pull lab results over my years of service that resulted in the FAA granting me my medical.  I've since renewed it without issue.

4) Cross-Check.  Apply your research regarding your situation to you record in hand.  Is there anything in your record that would prevent you from achieving your end game or perhaps make your case/VA claim?  Tab it out, know where it is, know what it says, know who said it and at what time etc.  This leads to the next item...

5) Applicability/Waiverability.  It's more research as to how to make your case for your end game. Regardless whether you need a waiver or want something to be applicable what you're researching here is PRECEDENT.  For those wanting to continue serving the Air Force Waiver Guide is a treasure trove of information of condition waived/metrics/tolerances etc.  I do not know if the FAA has a published repository of granted waivers for conditions.  The VA website has a rather robust database of claims/appeals/outcomes etc.  Proving your case with the VA with the published data and a solid VSO is very possible granted your history backs up your claim within reason.

6) Fight's on.  Regardless of what you want out of your current and/former medical situations go after it.  Much of MEB/IDES/VA fights are more a matter of legality rather than medical "expertise."  Meaning the systems are a CYA for the DoD.  The onus is on you the member to make your case rather than the entity correct their finding.  A private lawyer is highly recommended based on my experiences.  With regards to attaining an AF waiver to continue with the ANG/AFR I've heard having the right flight doc align with you opinion COULD get you in the door and the subsequent waiver...but this is all hearsay.  I have not met anyone yet that was "broken" from big blue and gained by the ANG/AFR, although on BO it is much easier for rated in this regard.

7) I HIGHLY recommend the last item you do right before dropping off you CaC is pick up yet ANOTHER PRINTED copy of your medical record.  The items above could be years in the making with subsequent entries from the last printed copy.  Make sure to get your request in with Records so they have ample time to print it before your final out.  If you attempt to acquire your printed medical record through the VA post separation it can take 6-9 months before you receive that copy.

7)a.  Ditto for Dental.  They'll say your xray is your history. That's fine and dandy but I had them PRINT a copy of my entire dental record.  It's not official as the original in your folder is kept and retired but the copy gives you something in hand to take to you next provider.

***BREAK for Dependents BREAK***

1) Same as item 7 above.  Get your spouses and kids records request for a PRINTED copy for pick up as close to your final out as possible.  Of course records will say "oh just have their new doctor request it from us."  Yeah...fool me once jokes on you, fool me twice...we know how that goes.  Fun fact: you cannot request your spouses record they need to go in person to fill out the form.  You as the sponsor can request records for your dependents under 18 i believe.  Also if you have children you're probably already tracking that the Immunization record could be the most important document in your young off springs life.  I requested multiple copies directly from Immunizations in addition to what was in the entire printed record.

2) Double down with Dental if were fortunate enough to have a dependent be seen on base.

---END---

Healthcare and the subsequent medical fallout from my service has been my biggest worry not only for my personal health but for my families mental, emotional, and financial health also.  I hope this sheds some light on what you have to look forward to.  Just remember you're not alone, there's someone out there who has gone through it before.

Shaka brah.

[WheelsOff]

On 12/21/2018 at 5:23 AM, mhunt2370 said:

Question regarding OCONUS separation... My DEROS will occur 9 months before my ADSC is up, when is the earliest I could apply for separation or set a DOS for at the end of my ADSC?

If I don't or cannot apply for separation before my DEROS, then I have to be given an assignment, right?  (Which I would then 7-day opt)

I have about 2 years 9 months on my ADSC left. Let’s say I take an overseas assignment w/a RNLTD next summer...I’m assuming I’d have to stay in past my ADSC to satisfy the DEROS before I could separate? 

Next question, could I then just separate (whether it’s at my ADSC or DEROS, however that works out) and move back to the CONUS without incurring any further type of commitment? 

Bottom line: it would be fun to take an assignment to somewhere like Hawaii, but not sure if it’s worth the pain/hassle or not if it would not allow me to separate sooner...

[Gotti01]

Does anyone know if/where there is a reg stating you CANNOT deploy 6 months prior to your separation date? I know I have heard this from multiple people but after going through the 36-207 and DAV regs I cannot find this explicitly stated anywhere

Edited June 14, 2019 by Gotti01

[nsplayr]

I had a separation date set and deployed less than 6 months from that date. Returned approx 6 weeks later and started terminal within 5 days. 2014 timeframe from CVS so YMMV. No idea on the regs because no one tried to stop me, they just have me weird looks as I simultaneously ran pre-deployment and Air Force outprocessing checklists 🤷‍♂️

[MooseClub]

On 6/8/2019 at 11:48 AM, WheelsOff said:

I have about 2 years 9 months on my ADSC left. Let’s say I take an overseas assignment w/a RNLTD next summer...I’m assuming I’d have to stay in past my ADSC to satisfy the DEROS before I could separate? 

Next question, could I then just separate (whether it’s at my ADSC or DEROS, however that works out) and move back to the CONUS without incurring any further type of commitment? 

Bottom line: it would be fun to take an assignment to somewhere like Hawaii, but not sure if it’s worth the pain/hassle or not if it would not allow me to separate sooner...

If you take a move then absolutely that can/will extend your ADSC. If you choose to do that then it’s on you. However, they can’t force you to move and incur duty past your existing ADSC. It may force you to show your hand earlier than you want but if you don’t want the extra ADSC then don’t take the move. 

[Skitzo]

I had a separation date set and deployed less than 6 months from that date. Returned approx 6 weeks later and started terminal within 5 days. 2014 timeframe from CVS so YMMV. No idea on the regs because no one tried to stop me, they just have me weird looks as I simultaneously ran pre-deployment and Air Force outprocessing checklists

Ha I remember that!


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[ThreeHoler]

Does anyone know if/where there is a reg stating you CANNOT deploy 6 months prior to your separation date? I know I have heard this from multiple people but after going through the 36-207 and DAV regs I cannot find this explicitly stated anywhere

 

There is not. They also removed the caveats for a 364 with less than 1 year left. Waiver for everything.

[WheelsOff]

15 hours ago, MooseClub said:

If you take a move then absolutely that can/will extend your ADSC. If you choose to do that then it’s on you. However, they can’t force you to move and incur duty past your existing ADSC. It may force you to show your hand earlier than you want but if you don’t want the extra ADSC then don’t take the move. 

That checks. 

Any idea idea if I could separate from AD and return from overseas after my DEROS/ADSC expire and NOT incur any type of commitment for the move back? I think you can, since you’d be separating and they owe you that last move, correct?