Reserve positions for officers over 20 years

[HuggyU2]

Although I've been on active duty for over 20 years, please forgive me for not knowing more about the nuts-and-bolts of the Reserves.

So, I'm an O-5 with over 20 years.

Let's say a Reserve unit wants to hire me into a flying position.

And let's say it will be full-time for a while, and then part-time ("traditional Reservist"?)

- can I retire from active duty so that I get my retiree pay on days I'm not working as a Reservist?

- on active duty, an O-5 has to retire at 28 years of service. Does that also apply to part time Reservists?

- what other pitfalls and considerations are there for someone over 20 years?

[herkbum]

Although I've been on active duty for over 20 years, please forgive me for not knowing more about the nuts-and-bolts of the Reserves. So, I'm an O-5 with over 20 years. Let's say a Reserve unit wants to hire me into a flying position. And let's say it will be full-time for a while, and then part-time ("traditional Reservist"?) - can I retire from active duty so that I get my retiree pay on days I'm not working as a Reservist? - on active duty, an O-5 has to retire at 28 years of service. Does that also apply to part time Reservists? - what other pitfalls and considerations are there for someone over 20 years?

I do not believe you can retire off AD and then draw a paycheck from the Reserves (will do a little research and get back to you). Is the full-time portion as an AGR?

The 28 yrs rule also applies to the Reserves, but, as usual, a waiver can be granted if leadership feels they want you to hang around (we currently have 2 in my squadron, 1 full-time and 1 part-timer).

I am sure there are other pitfalls, but cannot think of any off the top of my head.

Edit: added AGR question

Edited April 4, 2013 by herkbum

[matmacwc]

I've seen the retire/hire in the ANG and reserves. When on duty, you give up that day of retirement but get paid an active duty day, a bit of a raise. You are done at 28 as a LTCOL, 30 as an O-6. It's called ROTMA. Most units don't like hiring LtCol but I've seen it, it can screw up promotion possibilities for younger dudes.

Edited April 4, 2013 by matmacwc

[herkbum]

You are done at 28 as a LTCOL, 30 as an O-6. It's called ROTMA. Most units don't like hiring LtCol but I've seen it, it can screw up promotion possibilities for younger dudes.

Both guys in my squadron are 0-5's that got the waiver to surpass 28 yrs.

[matmacwc]

Both guys in my squadron are 0-5's that got the waiver to surpass 28 yrs.

Well there you have it, not so much in our state

[Danny Noonin]

I do not believe you can retire off AD and then draw a paycheck from the Reserves

It is possible, but it is an administrative asspain severe to make it happen. I'm trying to gain two retirees right now and we've been working the process on one of them for well over a year...Probably close to two. One of the big holdups is that you need to take and pass an initial entry physical as if you are a 22 year old off the street and the AFRC medical machine turns veeerrry sloooowwwlly.

Ultimately it can be done but it is really painful.

[hindsight2020]

It is possible, but it is an administrative asspain severe to make it happen. I'm trying to gain two retirees right now and we've been working the process on one of them for well over a year...Probably close to two. One of the big holdups is that you need to take and pass an initial entry physical as if you are a 22 year old off the street and the AFRC medical machine turns veeerrry sloooowwwlly.

Ultimately it can be done but it is really painful.

Why are we doing this? Are there no qualified younger guys?

[Termy]

Remember there is a difference between the guard and the Reserve. For example, someone said, "we got a waiver for an O5 over 28...." That won't happen in the reserves. Think of it this way, in the guard, there is a way (or waiver) for almost anything you dream up; in the Reserves, there is a way....and it is whatever active duty would do.

[Danny Noonin]

Why are we doing this? Are there no qualified younger guys?

Non-flying, rated, part time job. Not a lot of w-prefix guys searching for desks. That's why we want to hire a retiree.

So in this case, no, there are no qualified younger guys knocking at the door.

Which, by the way, has to be one of the justifications used to get AFRC to buy off on it and yet another reason why it is difficult to make this happen.

[JS]

In reading his post, I don't think he is retired yet - still active duty, right?

If that's the case, you can "simply" (easier said than done) join the Guard/Reserves and delay retirement until you retire from the Air Force all together. In other words you can't draw retirement from the AF while still working for the AF (in the Reserves/Guard). Each additional point you earn in the Reserves only adds to your active duty retirement check amount. And because you already have 20 years in, you will be drawing that money the day you retire from the Guard/Reserves and not having to wait until you are 60 like traditional Guard Reserve guys do.

Most units don't like hiring LtCol but I've seen it, it can screw up promotion possibilities for younger dudes.

This is definitely a Guard thing. The Guard will only have certain slots for certain ranks within the State, so yes, if you slide into Cougar's place as a LtCol, and there are only 8 LTCol flying slots in the entire state (with say, one guard unit), then you did indeed screw one of the up-and-coming majors who was waiting for that slot.

Unless you have an "in" at a specific Guard unit, this would probably be easier in the Reserves, because most Guard units will take care of the younger guys who have been there for their entire careers before them allow an outsider in to take an O-5 slot. AFRC has boards for the entire MAJCOM when it comes to promotions, and each unit is manned for X number of LtCol billets and Y number of Major billets. Because of all of the moving around between units (especially at the O-5 level and above), there are likely to be many units that are undermanned in their LtCol slots. Plus you are not screwing the majors below you, because they compete with every major AFRC nationwide during their promotion boards, not just the other 12 majors within the State.

The more I think about it, the more I think it would probably be easier to get into a Reserve unit as an O-5 than it would to be as an O-2 or O-3. Some AFRC guys are moving at the O-5/O-6 level to try and make rank, so there are bound to be open O-5 Reserve slots out there, and they would undoubedly be much less about "who you know" versus whether or not the unit has an opening. Plus most flying billets in AFRC are actually coded as O-4 and O-5 slots. The O-2s and O-3s just keep those slots filled until they make O-4, then get moved into an O-5 slot if that is in their cards.

[Danny Noonin]

Each additional point you earn in the Reserves only adds to your active duty retirement check amount.

Incorrect.

Only active duty points count toward active duty retirement. That means annual tour, MPA and RPA. UTAs and TPs are INactive duty. Once you turn 60 your retirement would get recalculated to include those points.

But you're possibly missing the point. To not retire and just go part time reserve would be to forfeit your pension check for however many years until you did retire. You would for all practical purposes be paying big money to be in the reserves. The math will never work out to have this make financial sense.

By the way, to convert to a reserve commission with more than 18 years of active duty under your belt requires a SECAF waiver. Yet another very real hurdle that's makes this a real pain.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Danny Noonin

[HuggyU2]

You would for all practical purposes be paying big money to be in the reserves.

Bingo. I do not want to give up my retiree pay to do this.

By the way, to convert to a reserve commission with more than 18 years of active duty under your belt requires a SECAF waiver.

Well that's just dandy.

To clarify: I'm active duty, with 26 years and 1 month of active service (plus about 20 months of inactive Reserve time during my break in service).

So IF I can get the 18 year waiver that Noonin mentions, I'll still have less than 2 years before I must leave due to hitting 28 years. And that's unlikely to get waived, since the Reserves follows active duty.

Do I have it right?

[Danny Noonin]

Pretty much.

Having said that, it never hurts to try.

[matmacwc]

Huggy, go hang out with Yeager in Penn Valley in retirement. Either way you slice it, you have less than 2 years without a waiver.

[JS]

Only active duty points count toward active duty retirement. That means annual tour, MPA and RPA. UTAs and TPs are INactive duty. Once you turn 60 your retirement would get recalculated to include those points.

Did not know that. Good to know.

And yes, I stand corrected. Noonin is right - it would be dumb to forgo retirement pay in order to collect Reserve pay. I like the AF and all, but I don't think I want to actually have to pay in order to get all of the benefits of Big Blue's shenanigans like blues, reflective belts, etc. So ignore what I said before.

Besides, with 26 years in, how much more Blue pain do you want? Listen to Steve Miller Band and take the money and run - you already have a retirement+ coming to you.

Besides, you can retire, then get a nice GS-11/12/13 job doing some desk job (like you desire) at an Air Force base somewhere, still keeping your hand in the Air Force. This way you truly double-dip by getting your full retirement pay in addition to some nice cushy GS job. We have a few guys who retired from the unit and are now working in pure GS jobs in the squadron (not ART or Technician) literally doing about the same thing.

I also heard of a friend who landed some nice safety gig at Randolph or something after he retired from the AF. So he is drawing retirement, making at his new job almost what he made before retirement, and working on an Air Force base, doing Air Force safety stuff. That's probably a better route than what you are thinking. Either way, you will have to poke around at some of the bases and units (along with USAJOBS) to make that happen.

[HuggyU2]

Besides, with 26 years in, how much more Blue pain do you want?

Well,... I have an addiction.

[amcflyboy]

An airline job will cure that...in no time.

[HuggyU2]

An airline job will cure that...in no time.

Not for me.

I was at United for ~18 months. About 6 weeks prior to 9/11, I started the application process to come back onto active duty.

And here I am.

[Tonka]

- can I retire from active duty so that I get my retiree pay on days I'm not working as a Reservist?

So, you have to give up retirement pay for the days you work for the reserves? I know there are some GS flying jobs in AFMC & NASA, do any of the other commands/services have GS flying billets so that you can make retirement + pay? Sounds like a good rule change to me, someone retires or leaves AD we hire them back as a GS to be the line IP... We keep the experience, and don't have to invest money in training someone else.

[scoobs]

Not for me.

I was at United for ~18 months. About 6 weeks prior to 9/11, I started the application process to come back onto active duty.

And here I am.

You must have a sweet number with all this new hiring.

[litercola]

Has anyone tried the Retired to Active Duty Reserve Program in the last 6 months, specifically if anyone has any contacts at AFRC are they open to this for specific rated officers....

https://www.arpc.afrc.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=8597

Why would you do this...say you early retire at 15 years and the reserve flying gets you hours/reserve pay far outstrips your retirement over a month.

Edited July 17, 2014 by litercola

[hindsight2020]

You must have a sweet number with all this new hiring.

It's not that sweet when you consider he probably doesn't get to accrue longevity while on furlough. I don't know the contract though but that's the standard. So, longevity at 18mo a whole 13 years later, while the cat is actively trying to stay attached to the tit past 28 years of blue flavor? my guess is he doesn't care much for the UAL number...

The one thing that's sweet is that someone managed to stay on USERRA-exempt orders for that long a stretch. Well played sir, well played. We had one dude get an AD retirement as a trougher, 9 extra years of piece-meal orders since they (obviously) weren't gonna let him go AGR....and he managed to keep his number at AA through the whole thing. Hate the game not the playa' kinda thing.

[scoobs]

He should have seniority for 13 yrs plus while furloughed. It doesn't just stop.

[hindsight2020]

He should have seniority for 13 yrs plus while furloughed. It doesn't just stop.

I didn't claim otherwise. It seems you don't understand the difference between seniority and longevity.

[Champ Kind]

He should have seniority for 13 yrs plus while furloughed. It doesn't just stop.

Say quals.