Masshole Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 Let's tie him up in Southie, give everybody one punch at a time, and the person to deal the final blow gets a free bottle of Jameson. 5
KState_Poke22 Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 (edited) Here's my thought. These guys felt like they didn't belong, and felt rejected by society, probably for being losers. They got deep into Islam (or at least the older one did) and they began to read websites that supported their contempt towards America. At some point they decided to retaliate, and used the plethora of online tools to build these rudimentary bombs. They chose a day that they knew would strike at the heart of the American spirit and population that they felt so disconnected from. They weren't capable of the mass destruction they were probably hoping for, thank God, and they had no real exit strategy. The fact that they weren't suicide bombers leads me to believe they were more angry at their surroundings than on a mission from Allah. The car jacking, shootout, and hideout show they are just cowards and amateur terrorists at best. Sure they might have used tools provided by AQ on the web, but these are absolutely not AQ operatives. Chechens really don't have a real beef with the American population, in fact they were supportive of a lot of our actions against USSR before the Cold War ended. Bottom line: these kids were ######ing losers that wanted to bring some sort of action to their pathetic lives and hurt to the people they felt oppressed by. I'm not so sure about what you said about them being losers and rejected by society. Every report I've read (yes I know, if it was reported in the media it's probably the exact opposite) said that they were outgoing, had lots of friends, and well liked. **edit** I guess I should clarify, the younger one was described that way. The older one claimed on his twitter page or some other social media that he doesn't have any American friends and doesn't understand Americans. Edited April 20, 2013 by KState_Poke22
kchsload Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 The father of the boys is claiming that they were framed and the "cops being cowards shot him, they're are cops like that." Good luck proving that one. The uncle seems to have the most the most common sense among them. 1
StoleIt Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 Is that hospital Suspect #1 is pictured in sharia-compliant? https://www.thesmokin...em-photo-478612 It's all Kosher. 2
Masshole Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 I'm not so sure about what you said about them being losers and rejected by society. Every report I've read (yes I know, if it was reported in the media it's probably the exact opposite) said that they were outgoing, had lots of friends, and well liked. **edit** I guess I should clarify, the younger one was described that way. The older one claimed on his twitter page or some other social media that he doesn't have any American friends and doesn't understand Americans. The younger one was probably influenced by his older brother. I am guessing that since the older brother was so socially disenfranchised and isolated that he started to subscribe to some Pan-Islamic sentiment that is not necessarily tied to any particular cause, but gave him justification and meaning. He recently spent six months in Russia and was previously investigated for extremist beliefs. The younger brother was probably convinced to help if the older brother had some broad picture ideology and was not just acting on his own personal isolation. The father is a suspicious character too. He was making threats to the US if his other son was killed, and why did the uncle estrange himself from the family? Maybe the father played some role in implanting some extremist ideas in the older brother's head.
Masshole Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 Time to call off the investigation and alert the media. We've got it all figured out over here at BO.net. No one is pretending to have it figured out, so throttle back grandpa. We are just discussing our thoughts and speculations like most people do. Although the media would buy into it. "This just in, North Korean paratroopers in Watertown. Shots fired."
Gravedigger Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 The flaw in your speculation is that you've committed an intentional error of omission by failing to mention the Kazakhstan connections. Interesting... Shenanigans, Jill Metzger was previously mentioned in this thread. 4
BitteEinBit Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 No one is pretending to have it figured out, so throttle back grandpa. We are just discussing our thoughts and speculations like most people do. Although the media would buy into it. "This just in, North Korean paratroopers in Watertown. Shots fired." WOLVERINES!!!! 1
Masshole Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 The flaw in your speculation is that you've committed an intentional error of omission by failing to mention the Kazakhstan connections. Interesting... Intentional omission because Islamist group presences in Central Asia are relatively weak right now. Not even the IMU really operates there anymore.
Masshole Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 The whole story is so convoluted. Some news outlets report Kyrgyz connections, others say the older brother moved to Kazakhstan. Kazakhstan has painted itself as a bastion for religious tolerance in the past decade or so. It probably has very little attraction for an extremist. Out of the five post-Soviet republics in the region, Kazakhstan is probably the least fertile land for recruiting extremists. Kyrgyzstan is a bit different because the IMU has launched a spate of attacks on the country prior to 2001 and it has often teetered on political collapse (suffered two regime-ousting revolutions in a decade). It could be a breeding ground for extremists, but most dissent is focused on political issues or ethnic tension between Uzbeks and Kyrgyz in Southern areas like Osh.
herkbum Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 The father of the boys is claiming that they were framed and the "cops being cowards shot him, they're are cops like that." Good luck proving that one. The uncle seems to have the most the most common sense among them. Very common view of police in FSU countries. 1
Masshole Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 (edited) So you're saying that previously, there were Islamists in Central Asia, and the IMU, at one time, did operate there. Because there is little attraction for extremists there, they would likely emigrate, and settle themselves in a more favorable place like Boston. So you concede it's possible that someone with Kazakhstan ties could be a US citizen in a city such Boston, be an extremist while raising little suspicion among his/her peers, and be capable of mass killing. Let's not diminish that particular connection. Unless, of course, one would have an agenda in doing so. It's possible, but usually when extremists bred in Chechnya or Central Asia strike it is against Russia. That being said, Kazakhstan has slowly become a huge melting pot for all kinds of Asian groups. Maybe there is a resurgence in extremists especially with our withdrawal in Afghanistan. That I do not know. I am also not sure why they would think Boston is a favorable place for their agenda since there is not a sizable Russian population relative to other large cities. That is why I think the older brother was just acting out against his inability to adapt to American culture under the pretense of Pan-Islamist ideology. You have probably read a lot about this, but if not there is a really good short book on Central Asian security issues by Alexander Cooley. It is called Great Game, New Rules. He has also published some articles online, one recently in Foreign Policy magazine called The League of Authoritarian Gentlemen. There is also a good book by Ahmed Rashid covering the early stages of the IMU. I am originally from Asia, so this kind of stuff is of interest to me. Edited April 20, 2013 by Masshole
kchsload Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 (edited) Very common view of police in FSU countries. Yeah tell me about it, my ex is Russian. I spent a many hours arguing with her over random conspiracy theories she heard in Russia. On an side note, in listening to the uncle's interview he mentions that the two shitheads grew up in Kyrgyzstan, not Kazakhstan. Very different places. Edited April 20, 2013 by kchsload
AnimalMother Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 I would like to see some actual evidence linking this kid to the bombing. But, since they decided to take away his rights, guess we might not get a chance to. Take note, your rights are no longer endowed to you by your creator, they are partitioned to you by your government, all they have to do is use the "T" word. Plus, I've seen "combat" zones in Afghanistan with less firepower allocated to them than what we sent after a single teenager. I don't think we're asking the right questions here. 3
HeloDude Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 I would like to see some actual evidence linking this kid to the bombing. But, since they decided to take away his rights, guess we might not get a chance to. Take note, your rights are no longer endowed to you by your creator, they are partitioned to you by your government, all they have to do is use the "T" word. Plus, I've seen "combat" zones in Afghanistan with less firepower allocated to them than what we sent after a single teenager. I don't think we're asking the right questions here. I was wondering the same thing...and quite frankly, it disturbs me a bit. The fact that they have not read him his Rights (also I'm hearing this includes the Right to an attorney when being questioned) when he is American citizen is fvcked up...especially when Obama said they're going to treat him as a suspected criminal vs enemy combatant (and that decision whether you're for or against it raises a bunch of other issues). I understand the 'public safety' exclusion in The Constitution, and NY vs Quarles SOCTUS case...but then I ask the question: How long can they detain this guy without actually reading him his Rights, letting him speak to an attorney, getting him before a Judge, etc? I have read a little bit (and also heard a US Senator say on the news) that they can do this for 48 hours...but that seems to be when you are under military custody. I'll admit I'm fairly ignorant on the legality portion of the issue but it just doesn't seem right...and yes, I've heard the arguments of 'he might have placed another bomb somewhere, etc'...but again I ask--when do they have to treat him like an ordinary citizen accused of a crime? 1
HossHarris Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 I though they were resident aliens, not citizens? I had also heard that there was plenty of evidence at their residence (explosives, similar devices, etc) Someone please correct if I'm wrong.
HU&W Posted April 20, 2013 Author Posted April 20, 2013 (edited) I was a little disturbed by the interview on the news today with the rep from the US Attorney's Office. In summary, they haven't charged him yet (which I assume includes the reading of rights) because they don't want to charge him if they're not certain he did it. They want to talk to him first to find out if he did it, and they can't get a good confession yet since he's still in serious condition. Because of his condition, they don't need to charge him to 'detain' him as he can't leave the hospital anyway. They do plan to charge him, regardless, before he leaves the hospital though. ETA: As much of a dirtbag as he probably is, and as much as I've already given whomever is proven to have done the bombing the death penalty in my own mind, if the guy is a US Citizen, he has the right to due process once captured. Edited April 20, 2013 by HU&W
AnimalMother Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 Notice the group of Republican congressman calling for permanent enemy combatant status in the news. That is bullshit. The Reichstag is burning.
Learjetter Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 Citizen or not, enemy combatant status may be the right call. It'll set a very useful precedent for the govt. That's why I'm against it.
Buddy Spike Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 I though they were resident aliens, not citizens? I had also heard that there was plenty of evidence at their residence (explosives, similar devices, etc) Someone please correct if I'm wrong. One of them (I think the younger one) got his citizenship on 9/11/12.
Beaver Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 The enemy combatant thing is bullshit and much scarier to me than any of the gun control stuff going on lately. 3
magnetfreezer Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 I was wondering the same thing...and quite frankly, it disturbs me a bit. The fact that they have not read him his Rights (also I'm hearing this includes the Right to an attorney when being questioned) when he is American citizen is fvcked up...especially when Obama said they're going to treat him as a suspected criminal vs enemy combatant (and that decision whether you're for or against it raises a bunch of other issues). I understand the 'public safety' exclusion in The Constitution, and NY vs Quarles SOCTUS case...but then I ask the question: How long can they detain this guy without actually reading him his Rights, letting him speak to an attorney, getting him before a Judge, etc? I have read a little bit (and also heard a US Senator say on the news) that they can do this for 48 hours...but that seems to be when you are under military custody. I'll admit I'm fairly ignorant on the legality portion of the issue but it just doesn't seem right...and yes, I've heard the arguments of 'he might have placed another bomb somewhere, etc'...but again I ask--when do they have to treat him like an ordinary citizen accused of a crime? In addition. going door-to-door turned into police entering everyone's houses as well - exigent circumstances/hot pursuit works with a suspect in a known building, etc, but does it become unreasonable to enter every building in a 20 block radius?
Motrin Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 exactly...I doubt a scalpel incision would leave a jagged opening like that. I hope that ######er felt every single one of those wounds. Looks like a 'clamshell' thoracotomy, a last ditch effort to revive a dead patient by evacuating blood and get more effective squeezing of the heart. Usually looks a little cleaner than that, maybe there were other wounds in the path of incision, or they probably let the med student try. Primum non nocere, first do no harm...
capt4fans Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 I hope he felt all of those wounds... So where are the tire marks from his brother running over him? On the legs?
Fuzz Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 In addition. going door-to-door turned into police entering everyone's houses as well - exigent circumstances/hot pursuit works with a suspect in a known building, etc, but does it become unreasonable to enter every building in a 20 block radius? Yeah I had a problem also with them claiming exigent circumstances to search 20 fricken blocks, especially when they turned up nothing and the guy was outside the perimeter.
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