National Air Cargo 747 Crash at Bagram

[Snooter]

I see you are not a boater. Beer makes the boat float dumb ass.

are you a seaman? I only motorboat...

[Prozac]

The National flight was headed to the UAE, where I assume the MRAPS would've continued their trip by sea. Getting equipment from landlocked Afghanistan to a seaport is still a tricky proposition.

[Chuck Sargent]

Wouldn't it be smarter to have vehicles being airlifted to have their steering wheels turned hard in one direction for just this sort of thing? (Kind of like when you park your car on a steep pitched street.) They are always straight on our aircraft but I don't know the logic on it.

[HerkFE]

Wouldn't it be smarter to have vehicles being airlifted to have their steering wheels turned hard in one direction for just this sort of thing? (Kind of like when you park your car on a steep pitched street.) They are always straight on our aircraft but I don't know the logic on it.

Sounds simple enough. It may have something to do with a vehicle that heavy sitting stationary and turning the wheel (the force of the tire on the floor of the aircraft) but I don't know either, just talking out my ass. Seems like some kind of chock like device that could lock into the rings (or whatever is in the floor) or the side rails of the cargo compartment would be simple and adequate enough. But I'm no load. Again, just talking out my ass.

[TrainerModel]

I flew the next day...and I was fine. I've spoken to a few people about it. I wasn't the only one who witnessed it. They also flew. Sad fact is that plane crashes are a part of the business. I was hoping to never witness one myself, and I hope to never witness one again. Hearing about it on the news is one thing, seeing/hearing/feeling the impact is quite another. I've since watched it a dozen times or so on youtube. Believe it or not, that helps to desensitize. Still makes my stomach turn, but what are you gonna do?

BL, I'm good. My rotation ended shortly after that incident, and provided the opportunity to reconnect with my family and think about "life". That said, aviation is, and always has been, the passion of my life. Can't wait to get back in the air next month.

Yea dude, the low point of this deployment by far. Had the Viper crash, the MC-12, then after once of the sketchy-ist landings of my life (the winds, gusts, and shear that day were awful) we come in and 30 minutes later we hear the 747 explode and see the smoke cloud over the field for hours. Then the KC-135 crash. F*cking terrible. It took a few weeks to not be uneasy in the gut while flying, but hey, its a risk. Mitigate best you can, pay attention to detail and press, well that and time passing is what it took to enjoy flying again out here again.

[JarheadBoom]

Spoke with one of the investigators on this accident and he let me know some facts. The aircraft had 5 MRAPS on it. The other contract carriers only carry 3. With 5 vehicles on the aircraft 2,3,&4 have ZERO forward and aft restraint. 1 has aft restraint and 5 has some forward restraint. The rear vehicle did break free and penetrate the aft bulkhead. Now this is what sucks. With that many vehicles, one shifting, even crashing through the bulkhead was not enough to cause this accident. They still would have had plenty of elavator authority. Unfortunately, when the vehicle slammed through the bulkhead it severed hydraulic lines to 2 separate systems, Took out the CVR and FDR (9 seconds after the rotate call), and finally did what actually brought the aircraft down. It hit the stabilizer trim unit and jammed it to 6 degrees none up, nothing they could do at that point.

The MRAP that broke free survived the crash (because it was in the tail) and they actually found orange marks on it from the FDR.

Fuck me running, that's horrible.

Wouldn't it be smarter to have vehicles being airlifted to have their steering wheels turned hard in one direction for just this sort of thing? (Kind of like when you park your car on a steep pitched street.) They are always straight on our aircraft but I don't know the logic on it.

I'm far from an expert on the 747, but the last time I was on a cargo-configured 747-200 (the NAC jet was a -400BCF) the floor was definitely not configured for rolling stock.

The photos I've seen of MRAPs loaded in 747s (in this thread, in fact) had them loaded on 463L pallets, in order for them to roll on the floor rollers in the jet, and to be uploaded/downloaded via K-loader. Turning the wheels in any direction, chocking the wheels, setting parking brakes... none of it matters if you've got 28k of mass sitting on what amounts to a skateboard with little restraint.

Thinking out loud... maybe USTRANSCOM should let Fred and Barney handle the big rolling stock, and let NAC, Atlas, Kalitta, et.al. handle the pallets of styrofoam trays and rubber dogshit.

Also...

https://www.nationala...ght_NCR102.aspx

Statement from National Air Cargo Regarding Flight NCR102 Investigation

June 4, 2013

Despite news coverage that appears to indicate otherwise, the investigation into the crash of flight NCR102 remains active and no conclusions have been made as to a cause. We have been advised by Mr. Mohammad Afzal Ramzi, an Air Worthiness Inspector and Board Member of the Afghan Aviation Safety & Operation Board, that the investigation remains open at this time with no timeline for completion.

National Air Cargo is continuing its support of the investigation and will not speculate on any possible cause of the accident. We remain hopeful the cause will be determined through a thorough investigation of all the facts involved.

[Chuck Sargent]

JarheadBoom- I see what you're seeing with the pallets in the pictures now, so I agree that, assuming the wood blocks would prevent it from coming off the pallet, it wouldn't matter. However, in the C-17 picture, it is floor loaded like vehicles are in the Herk. That's what I was envisioning. V/R, Chuck

[BQZip01]

Thinking out loud... maybe USTRANSCOM should let Fred and Barney handle the big rolling stock, and let NAC, Atlas, Kalitta, et.al. handle the pallets of styrofoam trays and rubber dogshit.

Looking to do a practical joke here. Where can I get a pallet of rubber dogshit?

The chowhall, you say?....

[smee]

Hong Kong?

[JarheadBoom]

JarheadBoom- I see what you're seeing with the pallets in the pictures now, so I agree that, assuming the wood blocks would prevent it from coming off the pallet, it wouldn't matter. However, in the C-17 picture, it is floor loaded like vehicles are in the Herk. That's what I was envisioning. V/R, Chuck

Those wood blocks under the vehicles are called "sleeper shoring"; it's purpose is to keep the vehicle's suspension from compressing/bouncing and allowing the restraints to go slack or shift. It's not to keep the vehicle from rolling on (or off) the pallets.

Even if the 747 had rails & locks for centerline-loaded pallets, it would've been a challenge to get the required restraint on those MRAPs with the load limits of the pallet rings (7500lbs).

[Clayton Bigsby]

Those wood blocks under the vehicles are called "sleeper shoring"; it's purpose is to keep the vehicle's suspension from compressing/bouncing and allowing the restraints to go slack or shift. It's not to keep the vehicle from rolling on (or off) the pallets.

It also helps to not overload the cargo floor rating by spreading the load for a vehicle that primarily gets is suspension from its tires - no suspension to compress, all the load goes to the points on the cargo floor that the tires contact. Sleeper helps spread that.

[GrndPndr]

Update?

Panel: Cargo blamed in plane crash killing Mich. crew

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/nation/2015/07/14/shifting-cargo-blamed-crash-killing-michigan-crew/30134517/

As has been previously mentioned, these folks were based out of the former Wurtsmith AFB, in Oscoda.

edit: minor formatting crap

Edited July 14, 2015 by GrndPndr