Difference between IP and 2/4-Ship flight lead

[cane53]

I'm rushing Guard/Reserve units and I'm trying to decipher the difference between USAF and USMC quals without having to ask too many dumb questions in person. Specifically I'm interested in what exactly an IP can do that a 2/4 ship lead can't in the A-10/F-16 communities. Is it just the ability to give initial X's, or can your flight leads give X's? Also I've never seen anyone's bio that lists Instrument or Annual(we call it NATOPS) instructor. Are those stand alone quals or is that rolled into IP?

Thanks

[Toro]

A 2-ship FL can lead a 2-ship.

A 4-ship FL can lead a 4-ship.

An instructor can lead an instructional ride, and is by default a 4-ship FL.

No idea what you're talking about with regards to giving X's - are you talking about qualifying quys on the letter of Xs? An instructor can do most of those, a FL cannot. With few exceptions on specific weapons (AGM in the F-15E community) there are no delineations on instructors that I know of - you are a straight up instructor.

[Ram]

Are you asking about checkrides?

Those are given by SEFEs (Stan/Eval Flight Examiners), who are IPs that also fly checkrides. Typically, the SEFEs in a squadron include the commander, DO, and one/two other experienced instructors.

[cane53]

"X's" are just the nomenclature for initial training sorties. We make a significant distinction between different levels of instructors while it sounds like "IP" for the Air Force is a jack of all trades. As a section leader(2-ship) you can teach certain initial sorties, as a Weapons and Tactics Officer you can teach others, as a Night Systems Instructor you can teach others, ect.

The flight after your section lead checkride can be you conducting initial training. It's just a different mentality in which we let guys teach earlier.

Thanks

[matmacwc]

What unit? That might make it easier

[Buddy Spike]

I'm rushing Guard/Reserve units and I'm trying to decipher the difference between USAF and USMC quals without having to ask too many dumb questions in person. Specifically I'm interested in what exactly an IP can do that a 2/4 ship lead can't in the A-10/F-16 communities. Is it just the ability to give initial X's, or can your flight leads give X's? Also I've never seen anyone's bio that lists Instrument or Annual(we call it NATOPS) instructor. Are those stand alone quals or is that rolled into IP?

Thanks

It's not that much different. Think of it as the SFWT Levels, not as just section/division.

Level I = RAG Grad / B-Course grad. Has a NATOPS/Inst Check (Form 8 in the Air Force), but nothing else.

Level II = Combat Wingman / MR Wingman. This is a dude that has finished his Mission Qualification Training Syllabus and completed his first Mission Checkride.

Level III = Section Lead / 2 Ship Flight Lead. Depends on the unit in the Air Force. A lot of F-16 units will roll the 2 FLUG into the 4 FLUG, but some don't. There's some level of instruction (BFM, ACM, 2 v 2 TI, CAS, two ship missions) involved to get through the FLUG, but you can't do gradesheets or anything. It's just passing on corporate knowledge through the briefs and debriefs.

Level IV = Division Lead / 4 Ship Flight Lead. Same level of knowledge in leading a division, but can't sign off on anything. Four Ship Flight Leads in the Air Force are not necessarily Mission Commanders either - that's a separate upgrade.

Level IVi = This is the closest to an IP. In the Navy, a 4i can make 4s. In the Air Force, an IP can do gradesheets on any level (and is the only one that can). It's actually a separate checkride and syllabus (basically a repeat of the 4 FLUG, but with more emphasis on the instructing aspects).

NATOPS/instrument Instructor = SEFE. Air Force has two checkrides every 12-18 months - an instrument check and mission check. Each checkride has its own EPE in the sim, so basically double what you'd do in the Navy (NATOPS check in the sim and an instrument check in the sim.

Level V = Top Gun Grad / Weapons Officer (FWIC graduate).

Let me know if you have any other questions... I went the other way, so my Navy knowledge still leaves something to be desired, but I can struggle through it.

[cane53]

Buddy Spike-

That's exactly what I was looking for. Gent's I appreciate the time. I just wanted to make sure that I could break down my existing quals into something that made sense for the Guard. I know I'm not the first Marine they've transitioned but it never hurts to start with some corporate knowledge.

I'm still a couple of years out until the end of my current obligation, but the only fighter/attack squadron I've really started talking to is the 107th FS in Michigan.