PirateAF Posted May 24, 2013 Posted May 24, 2013 ^^^ Amen. We've been at "war" for 10 years, burning both ends, flying around a country with terrain, field elevation, and weather extremes that challenge any aviator.
Bronco130 Posted May 24, 2013 Posted May 24, 2013 I will ask this though... Is there any reason that a fresh-out-of-the-schoolhouse -J guy shouldn't be able to stick a landing into any of those three fields without bending metal? A pilot can prang an airplane in anywhere. A pilot can input the TOLD wrong anywhere. It doesn't have to be in Afghanistan. A fresh new J guy 'should' be able to.. but Afghanistan is very different than CONUS. High elevations/max gross weights/defensive systems are not taught in unison so task saturation and maturity (especially for GW considerations) are not there yet. A few rides in those conditions and its natural again, but those few rides are still educational over there.
Champ Kind Posted May 24, 2013 Posted May 24, 2013 Trust me, I've been there. I get it. I'm not shitting on the crew at all. I understand... "shit happens". My point is that the conditions in Afghanistan are not so unique that it is impossible for us to establish good habit patterns at home so that we are ready to do the Lord's work when we arrive in theater. Whenever our next adventure kicks off, we are not going to have the luxury of "over the shoulder" educational rides in a mature, uncontested theater like we enjoy right now. 2
Oo7kerpow Posted May 24, 2013 Posted May 24, 2013 (edited) A fresh new J guy 'should' be able to.. but Afghanistan is very different than CONUS. High elevations/max gross weights/defensive systems are not taught in unison so task saturation and maturity (especially for GW considerations) are not there yet. A few rides in those conditions and its natural again, but those few rides are still educational over there. This. As a brand new AC in the sandbox right now, I can attest to this. My first flight out here was surprising to me-way different than what we train for back home. Airmanship isn't truly tested until you are removed from your safe cookie cutter conus training environment and you are faced with a situation like this: One controller (atc) wants you to go left for traffic, but you don't wanna go left because there's a thunderstorm there. Another controller (c2) wants you to go right because there is a roz in front of you because some a-10s are blowing shit up, but you don't wanna go right because there's a ######ing mountain there. You can't climb because you don't have the performance yet. Your copilot and nav are telling you different things based on the controller they are talking to. Your eng is worried about the number four tit gauge which decided to stop working, and your load is worried about the bright flashing light off of your left wing which is probably just a pickup truck but could be something more. Obviously several options available, but typically not something you encounter back home and if you don't have your head on a swivel, you could easily decide to do something that could bend metal and kill people. I'm sure every aircraft has similar stories. I've seen the wreckage, and carried passengers on the plane in question. Ill reserve judgement, because I know everyone has been put in a situation where after they landed, they heaved a sigh of relief because whatever they ######ed up didn't result in the worst case scenario. Edited May 24, 2013 by Oo7kerpow
Lord Ratner Posted May 25, 2013 Posted May 25, 2013 This. As a brand new AC in the sandbox right now, I can attest to this. My first flight out here was surprising to me-way different than what we train for back home. Airmanship isn't truly tested until you are removed from your safe cookie cutter conus training environment and you are faced with a situation like this: One controller (atc) wants you to go left for traffic, but you don't wanna go left because there's a thunderstorm there. Another controller (c2) wants you to go right because there is a roz in front of you because some a-10s are blowing shit up, but you don't wanna go right because there's a ######ing mountain there. You can't climb because you don't have the performance yet. Your copilot and nav are telling you different things based on the controller they are talking to. Your eng is worried about the number four tit gauge which decided to stop working, and your load is worried about the bright flashing light off of your left wing which is probably just a pickup truck but could be something more. Obviously several options available, but typically not something you encounter back home and if you don't have your head on a swivel, you could easily decide to do something that could bend metal and kill people. I'm sure every aircraft has similar stories. I've seen the wreckage, and carried passengers on the plane in question. Ill reserve judgement, because I know everyone has been put in a situation where after they landed, they heaved a sigh of relief because whatever they ######ed up didn't result in the worst case scenario. C2 doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground. And ATC out there is convinced the world was built in 7 days to service their every desire, and nothing more. C2 aimed so many UAVs at our plane I was starting to think their was a medal for creating the most HATRs, and ATC told me that even though we were going to run out of gas, we could not land at AIX or AKB because POTUS was parked there. Good luck, it'll be your fault no matter what happens. Therein lies the key to serenity. 1
BitteEinBit Posted May 25, 2013 Posted May 25, 2013 (edited) Trust me, I've been there. I get it. I'm not shitting on the crew at all. I understand... "shit happens". My point is that the conditions in Afghanistan are not so unique that it is impossible for us to establish good habit patterns at home so that we are ready to do the Lord's work when we arrive in theater. Whenever our next adventure kicks off, we are not going to have the luxury of "over the shoulder" educational rides in a mature, uncontested theater like we enjoy right now. Yes, we should be able to establish good habit patterns at home, but that would mean we actually focus on flying and there are flying training hours available. Otherwise, we are just stuck doing the minimums to meet RAP or currency so we look good on paper. After all, we have a Christmas party to plan...ain't nobody got time for flying! Edited May 25, 2013 by BitteEinBit
Toro Posted May 25, 2013 Posted May 25, 2013 LockheedFix, I've never flown the KC-135 but I have many friends that do. I'd imagine it is pretty damn difficult to land an aircraft with only 16" clearance on the inboard engines in crosswinds, something high wing aircraft don't really have to worry about. If I remember right, they only have 4 degrees of bank on landing before scraping an engine. Frankly, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more After an interesting and less than respectful PM, this asshole has been put in a permanent time out. If anybody happens to run across a douchebag from Maryland with the email address pilotwannabe@outlook.com, kick him in the nuts for me. 8
cgtacp Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 Had several good looks at the aircraft since the incident...it's a total write off. Vertical stab was hacked off about a week or two ago as it's right on final for the runway. Looking forward to reading the report. I honestly have no idea how this happened, but I'm sure the crew didn't either. As a Herc guy flying over here as a civilian, I see much boobery by Herc crews, and sometimes it's embarassing, but sometimes, I can't blame them. The crews I see here look very young and I'm sure it's their first time here for some. I don't know if they're just reading too much into it or what, but flying here is not that cosmic if you can filter out all of the extraneous bs. Their Tactics shops should be briefing them to remember one thing: Airmanship. C2 will try and fly you into terrain. ATC will do the same. Use your heads, your training, your TCAS and your crew. Be smart. If ATC tells you to do something stupid, tell them no. But none of that explains that landing and destroyed aircraft....
odb123 Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 Little more than a hard landing.... https://www.dvidshub.net/image/947509/security-check#.UbE04hxj1bw
HercDude Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 What are the green tear-looking things coming out the swing windows? Does the J have escape curtains?
LockheedFix Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 What are the green tear-looking things coming out the swing windows? Does the J have escape curtains? No. I'm guessing it some kind of fire suppressant chemical. I don't know of anything actually on the J that would do that.
cragspider Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 Wow that should buff right out. I would call that one more than a hard landing.
LockheedFix Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 I think we can officially call this one a crash. Hard landings don't rip off half the wing and start a fire.
RASH Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 Getting a "page not found" message on DVIDS link...anyone else having issues viewing the video?
herkbum Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 Getting a "page not found" message on DVIDS link...anyone else having issues viewing the video? Same here
arg Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) [\url] Have to wonder what the decent rate was on the J. Edited June 7, 2013 by arg
WeatherManC130 Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 What is the point of a fast team guarding the plane if it is completely useless and inside the fence line. I'm assuming all the secret stuff has been pulled.
Champ Kind Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 Still an asset... I guess someone thinks even the broken fuselage of a $65M aircraft is worth guarding until they either recover it or destroy it and gather the parts. That, or they don't want the Chinese getting ahold of our microwave oven and reverse-engineering it. 1
HercDude Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 What is the point of a fast team guarding the plane if it is completely useless and inside the fence line. I'm assuming all the secret stuff has been pulled. Photo op.
Butters Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 What is the point of a fast team guarding the plane if it is completely useless and inside the fence line. I'm assuming all the secret stuff has been pulled. They are guarding it to keep looters and Army soveneir hunters away.
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