KC-46A Info

[Pooter]

The part I struggle to understand is the -46 community is airframe limited.. not pilot limited. 

This whole thing is a (bad) solution in search of a problem. We got generals concocting weird scenarios in their heads where the AF is somehow super flush on FMC Peggy's with no one to fly them. 

[Swizzle]

2 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

 

[Clark Griswold]

47 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

Exactly, if we can fly Global Hawk on long duration ISR missions we can certainly handle a few tankers

As long as your link(s) are resilient yes. 

Just my guessing, but if I were a PLAAF officer analyzing Operation Cluster Fornication the Russians are currently executing, one take-away would be the lack of effective EA in disabling C2 links of the Ukranian Air Force's UAVs, the PLAAF in preparing for a fight with us will not be caught deficient in the capability. 

Anything we deploy that is unmanned or capable of being operated unmanned against a capable foe will need to be operationally effective with or without link back to an LRE/MCE.  Maybe not as effective while under control but not a liability.

But as the size of an aircraft increases the value of unmanning it decreases as the percentage of mass dedicated to crew for control and sustainment decreases as a percentage of the total mass of the aircraft, it has a diminishing level of return on gain in performance in some areas (endurance, range).  You get some more space, power, weight but the profit delta between manned and unmanned starts to diminish as the vehicle gets bigger between manned and unmanned.

You may still get some more fuel, cargo, stores, equipment whatever onboard but it may not be enough to warrant the cost of unmanning it.  Might. 

Edited October 30, 2022 by Clark Griswold

[Orbit]

4 hours ago, Biff_T said:

If it's designed for single pilot then it'd obviously be more manageable but as it stands, it's a bad idea.   

But like a few guys have hinted at, why not just go unmanned for the close stuff. 

Design future AF fighters for both boom and drouge.  Kiss the giant manned (unmanned?) tankers good bye as you continue on to mainland China behind your ucav buddies with baskets.   Godspeed.  That's gonna suck to be them.  

Make a KB-21 for that.

[ThreeHoler]

The part I struggle to understand is the -46 community is airframe limited.. not pilot limited. 
This whole thing is a (bad) solution in search of a problem. We got generals concocting weird scenarios in their heads where the AF is somehow super flush on FMC Peggy's with no one to fly them. 

I’ve heard 66.66666% (repeating of course) of Peggy pilots at one base are non-current for receiver AR.

[TheNewGazmo]

Single pilot ops in a heavy jet the USAF didn't even want to pay for electronic checklists in. Every time I think about staying in longer, the AF is gracious enough to slap some sense into me.

[Clark Griswold]

Make a KB-21 for that.

But how LO can AR be?
The amount of at least somewhat reflective material / RCR for the formation when rendezvous has happened could more than quadruple
Now that could 4 x 0.069 cm2 but still you get the point
An LO tanker to refuel relatively short range strikers near an ingress point might be a paradigm that full up air warfare in the 20’s and beyond is not possible
Massive jamming, drone swarms, suicide drones and loitering munitions with much longer ranged strikers using much longer ranged weapons. Supported by big/medium conventional tankers dragging them from launch, some tactical tankers and AR drone wingmen close to the A2AD area, then the new bigger longer (sts) ranged strikers and flying cannon fodder (attritable drones) go in, shoot and then egress bravely - rinse lather repeat Tangent complete.


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[HeyEng]

23 hours ago, Bigred said:

Something overlooked is the single seat vs crewed aircraft mentality.

I’ve flown some version of crewed aircraft since 2007. This year I switched to a single seat airframe and I just finished a T38 qualification. The stick and rudder was fairly easy, however the part that absolutely kicked my butt was getting past 15 years of crew mentality. That included things like not having the other dude talking on the radio, setting up approaches, running checklists, dealing with emergencies, etc. 

In a perfect world, a single pilot can fly the -46 without issue. When shit gets busy, it’ll be sketch at best, to downright dangerous, for that pilot to deal with the issues happening with the jet, and this whole experiment is geared towards the SHTF scenario. Without a lot of practice, I’d hazard to bet the guy flying the -46 by himself will have some subconscious crewed aircraft habits creep back in, which could be disastrous.

And no offense to booms, I’ve flown with some really sharp dudes, but a boom isn’t the same as a pilot. The boom can help but it’s not the same as having another pilot in the seat. 

TLDR; crewed to single piloted ops is not as simple as it seems. 

We have not even discussed flying IMC either, are we going to allow single pilot to shoot an ILS down to minimums in the WX or more likely restrict single pilots ops to VMC. What about Ocenanic crossings? Some sort of ETOPS like restrictions for single pilot ops? 
 

[ATIS]

Do what the Navy did years ago in the S-3, A-6, EA-6B community, put an instrument qualified Co-NAV in the front right seat. For sure in the S-3 community they went the route of putting a NFO in the front right seat because keeping two single anchor pilots qualed around the boat soon proved too restrictive. I heard rumblings that even the E-2D community is looking at missionizing the front right seat and putting a NFO up there to assist in mission related tasks. I’ve got 1000+ hours in the S-3 riding shotgun with pilots. Other than physically landing on the boat or staying in the baskt (that takes more practice than I had time to master) flying the jet was a piece of cake. We were FAA dual-pilot approved so we could accept those lower mins. Don’t know if the USAF is that brave or already looked at this idea and dismissed it?  
 Heck, “George” is flying the plane 80% of the time anyway right (except in the S-3, that autopilot sucked…but altitude Hold worked)?

ATIS

[brabus]

2 hours ago, HeyEng said:

are we going to allow single pilot to shoot an ILS down to minimums in the WX

Oh my god, the horror, surely there aren’t tens of thousands of pilots who have done this for decades and are currently doing it now, without any automation at all.  

[ClearedHot]

3 hours ago, HeyEng said:

We have not even discussed flying IMC either, are we going to allow single pilot to shoot an ILS down to minimums in the WX or more likely restrict single pilots ops to VMC. What about Ocenanic crossings? Some sort of ETOPS like restrictions for single pilot ops? 
 

VMC only, like fighter pilots?

[Biff_T]

49 minutes ago, brabus said:

Oh my god, the horror, surely there aren’t tens of thousands of pilots who have done this for decades and are currently doing it now, without any automation at all.  

Lol.   I agree with you Brabus but to HeyEng's defense, if the gear handle and flaps are almost out of reach for the pilot, it can make things a little challenging for the left seater (As you are probably aware).  Especially, single engine in the Wx.    But other than that, it's an ILS. Does the KC-46 have autoland?

Another serious question, will the pilot be using piddle packs?   Is the pilot going to be shitting his pants too (not because the ILS is too scary)?    

[brabus]

31 minutes ago, Biff_T said:

if the gear handle and flaps are almost out of reach for the pilot

Valid, but I hope to hell they didn’t design a plane where only the right seater could reasonably select flaps and gear. Granted my big airplane experience is limited, but I’ve never seen an airliner where you couldn’t manipulate flaps, throttle, gear, etc. from either seat. 

[Biff_T]

8 minutes ago, brabus said:

Valid, but I hope to hell they didn’t design a plane where only the right seater could reasonably select flaps and gear. Granted my big airplane experience is limited, but I’ve never seen an airliner where you couldn’t manipulate flaps, throttle, gear, etc. from either seat. 

True.  But you haven't flown with this guy.  Lol

[Prozac]

2 hours ago, brabus said:

Oh my god, the horror, surely there aren’t tens of thousands of pilots who have done this for decades and are currently doing it now, without any automation at all.  

Honest question: What’s the safety record of communities that fly single pilot hard IFR look like vs the heavy communities? 

Related: what’s the cost (monetary, lives, collateral damage) of putting, say, an F-16 in the dirt vs. a large transport category aircraft?
 

Also related: Would the single seat communities ever consider ditching their chutes and pinning their seats for the duration of any flight? 
 

Also, also related: How often do single seat guys fly single ship, without mutual support? Ever have lead set your shit straight when you were a clueless wingman & used up all your brain cells trying to walk and chew gum? That’s the AC’s role in a big airplane. 

[Prozac]

Another thought/data point to consider in this discussion: 

Years ago, there was great fanfare in the bizjet community as many manufacturers designed and certified some of their less complex aircraft for single pilot ops. Today, the number of these aircraft that are actually operated single pilot is exceedingly small. Why? It’s often impossible or prohibitively expensive to get insurance for such operations. Why is single pilot so hard to insure? Because the safety record is fukkking abysmal. And that’s for relatively simple aircraft that were expressly designed to be operated by a single pilot on relatively short A-B legs. Now, take an inexperienced kid who probably wasn’t at the top of his UPT class, put him in a 767, and ask him to do a complex mission that may last upwards of 10 hours and involve receiver refueling ops, a combat zone, coordination of dozens of receivers, bad weather, night, and systems degradation and/or emergencies. Sound smart to anyone here? This dumb idea has got to be somewhere in the top ten epically dumb ideas of all time. But hey, someone’s probably hoping for another star on this one, so what the hell, why the fuck not? Not that guy’s ass on the line. In fact, I’ll bet a hundred bucks that the brass that’s pushing this garbage will be the first in line demanding heads on a platter when guys inevitably start bending metal. EPICALLY. STUPID. IDEA. 

[Danger41]

One thing that has made me chuckle throughout this whole thing is lots of pilots but tons of FE’s, Booms, Loadmasters, etc having story after story of how they saved the pilot flying from crashing etc. Is it really that insane to be flying in AMC? JFC you guys deserve DFC’s on every flight as dangerous as some of you make it sound.

And also, I don’t know if the meme community knows it or not but the USAF isn’t represented by ALPA. I genuinely don’t understand that argument with this. By the same token should all T-38 guys and/or fighter dudes get black balled by ALPA because they willfully chose to disregard the almighty CRM and fly by themselves?

[BashiChuni]

where did ALPA come from in all this?

[08Dawg]

2 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

where did ALPA come from in all this?

A certain meme producer on a certain platform has been calling loudly, screaming even, for anyone flying the -46 single pilot to be blackballed by the airlines. That may be where the ALPA talk is coming from

[Prozac]

14 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

And also, I don’t know if the meme community knows it or not but the USAF isn’t represented by ALPA. I genuinely don’t understand that argument with this. By the same token should all T-38 guys and/or fighter dudes get black balled by ALPA because they willfully chose to disregard the almighty CRM and fly by themselves?

It’s not the fact that the AF wants to operate some missions single pilot. It’s the fact that the AF wants to take an airframe expressly designed to be operated by a crew, and pilots expressly trained to operate in a crew environment and throw caution to the wind. And when General Numbnuts inevitably touts how successful and great his program is (and he will, regardless of how this thing goes down), airline heads everywhere will sit up and take notice & point to the super successful AF program as they ask the FAA to provide relief from the impending doom of the pilot shortage. Also, there are all sorts of systems designed into tactical single seat aircraft to assist the pilot in maintaining SA. Ever see a HUD baby get into a Dutchess and try to fly a VOR approach on the six pack? It ain’t pretty. Comparing single pilot ops in a fighter vs an airliner is comparing apples and whale dicks. 

[CaptainMorgan]

Does the 46 have a tiller on the right side? If so, you could theoretically fly from the right. If not, shorter pilots might be challenged to reach the gear from the left.

EPs are another concern. I imagine there are some (runaway trim perhaps?) where the EP would be substantially compounded without a 2nd pilot in the seat.


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[BashiChuni]

27 minutes ago, 08Dawg said:

A certain meme producer on a certain platform has been calling loudly, screaming even, for anyone flying the -46 single pilot to be blackballed by the airlines. That may be where the ALPA talk is coming from

YGTBSM JFC

[Pooter]

5 hours ago, brabus said:

Oh my god, the horror, surely there aren’t tens of thousands of pilots who have done this for decades and are currently doing it now, without any automation at all.  

not in aircraft that were designed for a crew of two pilots to operate...

I get it, IFR approaches are boring admin that shithot fighter pilots don't even talk about because it's so trivially easy.

But if you've attended safety briefs you probably also know that admin kills more shithot fighter pilots than any other phase of flight.

 

[Bigred]

7 hours ago, ATIS said:

Do what the Navy did years ago in the S-3, A-6, EA-6B community, put an instrument qualified Co-NAV in the front right seat.

That just sounds like a copilot but with extra steps. If the AF was gonna go to the trouble of training and manning a squadron with a co-Nav, then might as well go ahead and put an actual copilot in the seat instead. 

[Sua Sponte]

McConnell Wing King having an aircrew all call tomorrow.