Pilot Life and raising a family

[ArtofWar]

Hey all, hopefully this is the right section to be asking these questions. My thread didn't really seem to fit any so I figured this would be the best place.

So I am very interested in joining the Air Force. I am going to be a sophomore (at college) this coming fall, so I am late to the party (I'll be joining ROTC). I am a Civ. Engineer with a 3.5 GPA.

I would love to become a pilot.

But there are a couple things that are scaring me. I am a single guy and I want a family in the future. I assume I will have time to find a girl at some point early in my career...but will I be able to start a family and have them in an ideal situation? Let's say by the age of 35, will I be able to have a child and keep them in one place?

I am willing to sacrifice anything to fly except a normal family life. (If I can achieve a normal family life by the age of ~35 though...I can manage.)

Of course this all depends on if I can even get a pilot slot. But hopefully with a lot of effort and hard work I can achieve my dreams and if not, I will be content with a life in the Air Force as a Civil Engineering Officer.

Thank you for taking the time to read and answer my questions. More importantly though, thank you for serving our country.

Edited June 5, 2013 by ArtofWar

[theSituation]

Oh man, this is gonna be a good one...

[Champ Kind]

This thread is already not what I thought it was going to be about.

Edit: thread title changed. It used to be something about "intimacy with pilots". Now I'm double disappointed.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Champ Kind

[Gravedigger]

It's probably due to you being an engineering student, but do you know what intimate means? These questions seem more "general" than "intimate." Intimate would describe the level of knowledge of BODN members WRT BQZips mom.

[JeremiahWeed]

Let's say by the age of 35, will I be able to have a child and keep them in one place?

I am willing to sacrifice anything to fly except a normal family life. (If I can achieve a normal family life by the age of ~35 though...I can manage.)

Have a child by 35 - not a problem (assuming you find someone to make it happen with). Keeping them in one place? Highly doubtful unless you end up in the Guard/Reserves.

"Normal family life" is very subjective. Does that mean home every night for dinner and weekends off for family activities? A full 20 year active duty career as a pilot usually has highs and lows of "normalcy". You may spend a 3 year tour teaching at a UPT base or your aircraft's "schoolhouse" and have opportunities to be home for dinner most nights and off every weekend (if that's normal you). Other times you may be deployed or TDY (on temporary duty away from home base) more months than you are home. There are 1 year remote tours (unaccompanied - i.e. no family with you) that could drive things far from "normal".

If you serve your UPT commitment, get out (probably around age 35 for most who start UPT after college) and go full time Guard/Reserves, you might be able to swing more “normalcy” out of life in general. That is, unless your Guard unit changes aircraft or closes. Don’t go to the airlines – no normal life there.

Generally speaking, the military lifestyle is full of sacrifices. Starting things out with a line in the sand over certain sacrifices you’re unwilling to make probably isn’t realistic. Plenty of families make it work but it’s not completely painless. Trying to predict what choices you may have ~15 years from now is impossible for most people – never mind a future military pilot hopeful who has no idea: if he’ll finish ROTC, get a pilot slot, get wings, what aircraft he’ll fly, etc.

[Recut]

I would love to become a pilot.

But there are a couple things that are scaring me. I am a single guy and I want a family in the future. I assume I will have time to find a girl at some point early in my career...but will I be able to start a family and have them in an ideal situation? Let's say by the age of 35, will I be able to have a child and keep them in one place?

I am willing to sacrifice anything to fly except a normal family life. (If I can achieve a normal family life by the age of ~35 though...I can manage.)

Of course this all depends on if I can even get a pilot slot. But hopefully with a lot of effort and hard work I can achieve my dreams and if not, I will be content with a life in the Air Force as a Civil Engineering Officer.

Keep them in one place? They can stay in one place. You won't

Sacrifice anything except a normal family life? Clean kill on joining the military

Content on CE: CE officers deploy, too.

[zach braff]

If you would only love to become a pilot, maybe the Air Force isn't for you. If you would love to become a military officer who also gets to fly airplanes - then you might be on track.

Also - some of the closest and happiest families I know are the ones who sacrifice the most due to service. You'd surprised at what normal can look like...

zb

[Biff_T]

Let's say by the age of 35, will I be able to have a child and keep them in one place

It’s possible, but you will probably need some sort of restraint….maybe duck tape or a burlap sack?

[abmwaldo]

AF Pilot life was awesome for me.

I started several families.

And put hundreds of young women through college.

[ArtofWar]

It's probably due to you being an engineering student, but do you know what intimate means? These questions seem more "general" than "intimate." Intimate would describe the level of knowledge of BODN members WRT BQZips mom.

I had made this thread on a military forum and was directed here. I had more questions then...that were intimate but were answered there. Probably should have changed the title but didn't think about it and felt that asking about how your family life is was intimate enough.

Also didn't expect to get patronized by some others for it...

Have a child by 35 - not a problem (assuming you find someone to make it happen with). Keeping them in one place? Highly doubtful unless you end up in the Guard/Reserves.

"Normal family life" is very subjective. Does that mean home every night for dinner and weekends off for family activities? A full 20 year active duty career as a pilot usually has highs and lows of "normalcy". You may spend a 3 year tour teaching at a UPT base or your aircraft's "schoolhouse" and have opportunities to be home for dinner most nights and off every weekend (if that's normal you). Other times you may be deployed or TDY (on temporary duty away from home base) more months than you are home. There are 1 year remote tours (unaccompanied - i.e. no family with you) that could drive things far from "normal".

If you serve your UPT commitment, get out (probably around age 35 for most who start UPT after college) and go full time Guard/Reserves, you might be able to swing more “normalcy” out of life in general. That is, unless your Guard unit changes aircraft or closes. Don’t go to the airlines – no normal life there.

Generally speaking, the military lifestyle is full of sacrifices. Starting things out with a line in the sand over certain sacrifices you’re unwilling to make probably isn’t realistic. Plenty of families make it work but it’s not completely painless. Trying to predict what choices you may have ~15 years from now is impossible for most people – never mind a future military pilot hopeful who has no idea: if he’ll finish ROTC, get a pilot slot, get wings, what aircraft he’ll fly, etc.

Thank you! This is what I was looking for. It sounds as though it is possible to make it happen with some hardships but still realistic...

I would hope "normal" would be getting to spend several nights a week with my family when I am not deployed and would hope deployment meant only 3-4 months of the year (if I was continually deploying for half a decade or more). That way I could still see my child grow up, keep my wife happy and keep my kid in the same area so he/she could experience a somewhat typical childhood.

It is true though that I don't know what choices I will have to make but I am hoping I can gauge them better if I decide to go to the pilot path from hearing from a multitude of experienced AF pilots. I feel like it is definitely a life I could live though. I have never wanted to be a 9-5 guy and there doesn't seem to be a more viable option than becoming an AF pilot. Hopefully, in such a venerated position I can really make an impact somewhere, somehow and make something of myself.

Keep them in one place? They can stay in one place. You won't

Sacrifice anything except a normal family life? Clean kill on joining the military

Content on CE: CE officers deploy, too.

As long as they can stay in one place. I of course wouldn't expect such, but I would hope to see them enough so I can watch my child grow up and keep my wife happy.

[ViperStud]

If "stay in one place" is a must-have, don't join as a pilot. UPT will be in one place, then a PCS to your FTU then another PCS to your ops unit for ~ 3 yrs. You will have two more assignments (both requiring moves) before your commitment is up. Your family will have to move. There is a chance you could homestead (stay somewhere for a very long time) if you get a B-1/52 or MC-12 but that would be a huge roll of the dice. Sounds like you are ok with deployments but do you want to be gone 200+ days like a C-17 driver? There are simply too many airframes that will not meet your "requirements" so you need to figure out what is more important - flying or your flavor of stability. That, or bite the bullet and go in knowing that you will bail after your UPT commitment, at the ripe young age of ~34.

[Liquid]

If you are interested in serving and you have the health and a moderate level of coordination to fly, try to get to UPT. If you are looking for a job, this one has low relative pay, long hours, danger of burning to death, lots of time away from home, and is rough on the family. If you want to serve your country by flying kick ass aircraft all over the world, are willing to kill people, you know how to pick a wife strong enough to deal with all the shit, and you don't mind missing birthdays, anniversaries and Little League games, try UPT. If you are already worried about what your family life will be like at 35 as an AF pilot, get a regular civilian job. CE isn't much easier on the family. Being a pilot is the second best job in the AF. Commanding them in combat is the best. Bottom line, if you aren't willing to sacrifice everything, don't try it.

[Smokin]

Keep them in one place? They can stay in one place. You won't

Sacrifice anything except a normal family life? Clean kill on joining the military

Content on CE: CE officers deploy, too.

CE is actually deployed more often in the current war than pilots (based purely on anecdotal evidence) since they're filling in-lieu-of Army taskings in addition to the AF billets.

If staying in one place is a must have, don't join active duty. I'm at my 5th base in 9 years and I anticipate another being at my 8th base by my 13 year point and I think that is representative of the Viper community. Pilots move more often, but just about everyone moves every 4 years or so. My family has gotten pretty used to moving and it is no big deal.

Totally agree with 'normal' will vary. There have been months of calm where I was home for dinner many nights and there have been weeks where I haven't seen my kids Monday - Friday despite being at home. I can only speak for fighters (specifically the Viper), but our deployments are generally a little over six months. There was hope it would go back to the 3-4 months when OIF and OEF drewdown, but I haven't heard a reliable rumor of a decrease in the near future. Currently, most guys will deploy once or twice for six months in a nominal 3 year combat unit assignment depending on the timing of when they showed up versus when the squadron is scheduled to deploy.

TDYs are similar to the 'normal' above. There have been times where I've been gone for 9 out of 15 months and then other times when I've only been gone 3 and those were all 2-3 week TDYs. Everything seems to go in waves.

[HercDude]

Also didn't expect to get patronized by some others for it...

Then you don't know anything about the military in general, and pilots in particular. If you want to ask a bunch of pilots what they think about your specific life choices with your fat wife, 2.5 kids, white picket fence and a golden retriever, be prepared to be addressed as a clueless college kid who is probably spending too much time in the library and not enough drinking shitty beer and chasing tail.

But thanks for letting us know you are an oversensitive douchebag on your second post. You could have just as easily walked down to your ROTC detachment and asked them these same questions. Since they probably are looking for people they would have spared your sensitive ego the sarcastic and patronizing comments.

Good luck.

[Learjetter]

You'll need to define "normal".

I married before joining the AF, wife decided not to pursue her career and be a stay at home mom. We moved 8 times to different bases (so far) in my 22 years in service. I've "deployed" 13 separate times to both flying and non-flying jobs, shortest was six weeks, longest (so far) was six months. I've also flown long missions (20+ days gone) in between and in addition to "deployments" in three different mobility airframes. Most times we knew when I'd be gone several weeks or months in advance...other times I left with 24 hours notice.

For us, that lifestyle IS normal. I've missed lots of holidays, birthdays, sports games, and the like...but I've also been home for a bunch, too. My kids all graduated from different high schools, made lots of friends in lots of different places, and we all learned to take advantage of "home time".

Half my career was Pre- 9/11, life was much more predicable then...now? It's a complete crap shoot: I have no idea what to tell my young pilots what their future holds...all the "old" career advice no longer applies, so...your guess is as good as any on what YOUR 20 year career would look like.

Here's one "idealized" guess (using af career pyramids...ie what the company is selling)

Yr Event

1-2 Pilot training then move to ftu & surv tng courses then move to first ops assignment

3-6 ops assignment #1. (Several deployments & tdy to schools)

6-8. ALFA tour or schoolhouse tour or ops tour #2

9-12 promote to o4, break for school + staff tour (or back to ops)

13-16. Ops tour #3, promote to 05 + command (or return to staff)

17-21. Break for school + staff & retirement as 05

That's at least six moves (8 w/schools) in 21 years. That's a pretty generic look at the whole shebang, but every old dude like me on BODN has a variance of the above...some "better", some "worse", some a LOT "worse"...but a lot of that characterization is relative.

YMMV. Good luck.

[frog]

If you are set on the requirements that you listed, then active duty probably isn't for you. Ask about Guard or Reserve...I don't know much about them.

Just a data point:

I'm a CE officer. We move every 2-3 years. Deployments have been about 7 months out of every year, but that is improving rapidly with the drawdown. We were told to expect 6 months down range out of every 18-24 months once the drawdown is complete.

My advice: worry about being 35 when you are 35. Family is awesome, but don't waste your life just waiting around for it to happen.

[Liquid]

Good advice frog.

[GearDownNoGreen]

The amount of hoops that you have to put yourself through before you even reach your 35 year cutoff is astronomical. To be honest man, the odds of you making it from square one in ROTC to a graduated UPT student who is in a position to start a family are far worse than you not finding a wife who would support most AF pilots' career paths. That is to say, you're focusing way too far down the road. Like others have said above, the military pilot lifestyle is full of sacrifices; if you want to be one, I suggest focusing on meeting that goal, then aligning the pieces to for your desired family life.

[guineapigfury]

You're kid will grow up in one place: wherever your ex wife takes him when she gets custody. Also, fix your attitude. You haven't even made the cut to get into ROTC yet.

[HuggyU2]

The amount of hoops that you have to put yourself through before you even reach your 35 year cutoff is astronomical...

... some good advice...

... then aligning the pieces to for your desired family life.

Hard to argue with GDNG's advice.

As for HercDude, ignore him. We love him, but he was an abused child.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Huggyu2

[Guest CannonCrashPad]

I think it's sweet he's in college and already planning to get married and have a kid once he meets that lucky woman. With that strong nesting instinct, I think he's bound to lay hate on our enemies. Don't let that manliness go to waste!

Have you considered being an elementary school teacher? I think perhaps being a pilot might not best harness your killer instinct.

[ArtofWar]

Then you don't know anything about the military in general, and pilots in particular. If you want to ask a bunch of pilots what they think about your specific life choices with your fat wife, 2.5 kids, white picket fence and a golden retriever, be prepared to be addressed as a clueless college kid who is probably spending too much time in the library and not enough drinking shitty beer and chasing tail.

But thanks for letting us know you are an oversensitive douchebag on your second post. You could have just as easily walked down to your ROTC detachment and asked them these same questions. Since they probably are looking for people they would have spared your sensitive ego the sarcastic and patronizing comments.

Good luck.

Ahaha. I expected better out of pilots is all, but I guess douchebags are everywhere. You being one yourself.Takes one to know one I guess.

I could have asked my ROTC detachment this, but the recruiter I talked to did not seem knowledgeable about pilot life from the questions that I did happen to ask him. So why would I bother asking him when I could actually ask some pilots? Fortunately, I have gotten a lot of in-depth responses. No thanks to you, cleeding bunt.

You'll need to define "normal".

I married before joining the AF, wife decided not to pursue her career and be a stay at home mom. We moved 8 times to different bases (so far) in my 22 years in service. I've "deployed" 13 separate times to both flying and non-flying jobs, shortest was six weeks, longest (so far) was six months. I've also flown long missions (20+ days gone) in between and in addition to "deployments" in three different mobility airframes. Most times we knew when I'd be gone several weeks or months in advance...other times I left with 24 hours notice.

For us, that lifestyle IS normal. I've missed lots of holidays, birthdays, sports games, and the like...but I've also been home for a bunch, too. My kids all graduated from different high schools, made lots of friends in lots of different places, and we all learned to take advantage of "home time".

Half my career was Pre- 9/11, life was much more predicable then...now? It's a complete crap shoot: I have no idea what to tell my young pilots what their future holds...all the "old" career advice no longer applies, so...your guess is as good as any on what YOUR 20 year career would look like.

Here's one "idealized" guess (using af career pyramids...ie what the company is selling)

Yr Event

1-2 Pilot training then move to ftu & surv tng courses then move to first ops assignment

3-6 ops assignment #1. (Several deployments & tdy to schools)

6-8. ALFA tour or schoolhouse tour or ops tour #2

9-12 promote to o4, break for school + staff tour (or back to ops)

13-16. Ops tour #3, promote to 05 + command (or return to staff)

17-21. Break for school + staff & retirement as 05

That's at least six moves (8 w/schools) in 21 years. That's a pretty generic look at the whole shebang, but every old dude like me on BODN has a variance of the above...some "better", some "worse", some a LOT "worse"...but a lot of that characterization is relative.

YMMV. Good luck.

Thanks. I elaborated what I meant on normal in my latter post. It sounds like there really isn't a normal for AF pilots but every pilot and their families learn to cope with the trials presented by the life. That in itself is good to hear. As long as it makes you all happy for the most part, it is good to hear. Also, thanks for the chart to flesh things out. Puts things in perspective.

IDEALLY, what normal life would be for me:

"I would hope "normal" would be getting to spend several nights a week with my family when I am not deployed and would hope deployment meant only 3-4 months of the year (if I was continually deploying for half a decade or more). That way I could still see my child grow up, keep my wife happy and keep my kid in the same area so he/she could experience a somewhat typical childhood."

And yeah it sounds like things are changing a lot thanks to cuts and technology...

If you are set on the requirements that you listed, then active duty probably isn't for you. Ask about Guard or Reserve...I don't know much about them.

Just a data point:

I'm a CE officer. We move every 2-3 years. Deployments have been about 7 months out of every year, but that is improving rapidly with the drawdown. We were told to expect 6 months down range out of every 18-24 months once the drawdown is complete.

My advice: worry about being 35 when you are 35. Family is awesome, but don't waste your life just waiting around for it to happen.

Good advice...I definitely have a tendency to look much too far in the future. I still have time to think about this decision and I'll see how I feel about my reqs about family...from the answers I have read I feel like none of you regret your decision to become apart of the AF and manage to find a way to find a family and have your fun. So I don't think I want to turn down such a great opportunity for something so far down the line in the future. It is good to also get a reply from a CE officer.

You're kid will grow up in one place: wherever your ex wife takes him when she gets custody. Also, fix your attitude. You haven't even made the cut to get into ROTC yet.

Haha...ice cold. It's not that I think I will be getting a pilot slot. It is just in the case that with the hard work I put in, and hopefully lady luck on my side, that if I do get a pilot slot, I want to know in advance that I won't have any regrets for putting in all that work. It sounds as though everyone absolutely loves the life and would trade it for nothing. Enough so that I am crazy for even thinking about family down the line...

I am sure to even get to pilot training will be hard. No denying that.

Hard to argue with GDNG's advice.

As for HercDude, ignore him. We love him, but he was an abused child.

Yeah, a lot of great advice from everyone really. Thanks all!

And I would rather slap him in the face like the rest of the internet warriors. I am just sorry I came off as "sensitive" for him. I just was surprised to see any here. Thought it'd be a bunch of pilots just shooting the shit after retirement but it seems a lot more diverse here than I imagined.

I think it's sweet he's in college and already planning to get married and have a kid once he meets that lucky woman. With that strong nesting instinct, I think he's bound to lay hate on our enemies. Don't let that manliness go to waste!

Have you considered being an elementary school teacher? I think perhaps being a pilot might not best harness your killer instinct.

Well after this post...I am considering devoting my life to tracking you down and kicking you in the ######.

Thank you all again for the mostly awesome answers. I guess even Crew Dawg & Herc are just trying to say that I am crazy for even thinking about giving up my dream of becoming an AFP because of family matters.

Edited June 5, 2013 by ArtofWar

[ATIS]

I will just make this clear as day: (not serious), "have you thought about joining the Navy"? (Serious): "Coast Guard aviation" is something you should consider.

[Helo Kitty]

IDEALLY, what normal life would be for me:

"I would hope "normal" would be getting to spend several nights a week with my family when I am not deployed and would hope deployment meant only 3-4 months of the year (if I was continually deploying for half a decade or more). That way I could still see my child grow up, keep my wife happy and keep my kid in the same area so he/she could experience a somewhat typical childhood."

Deployment only lasts 3-4 months? If that's what you want, stay away from CE and LRS; our minimum is 6 months (+ training) and we have it good; I love being a Loggie.

If you don't want to deploy, go Missiles. In the meantime, learn to take some advice like a man. You came here looking for advice and you got some great advice from some dudes who have been flying and kicking ass longer than you've been alive. If you don't like what you hear, then GTFO.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Helo Kitty

[ViperStud]

Dude, you don't have thick enough skin to be a pilot. Pilots are blunt and sarcastic, and you are too sensitive. Don't waste a pilot slot. Have you thought about being a figure skater?