Pilot Life and raising a family

[HU&W]

BKIH

[HercDude]

As for HercDude, ignore him. We love him, but he was is an abused child FGO.

Much more accurate.

Thank you all again for the mostly awesome answers. I guess even Crew Dawg & Herc are just trying to say that I am crazy for even thinking about giving up my dream of becoming an AFP because of family matters.

Seriously dude? Open your fucking ears and close your man pleaser. No one is saying you or anyone else is crazy for wanting a family. I've been happily married for close to a decade. I literally have 2.5 kids and a cocker spaniel. What people are saying is stop trying to plan your life 17 years from now when you obviously don't have the next 2 figured out.

You want to be a pilot and have a family? Here is a list of shit you haven't done yet:

1 - Get accepted into an commissioning program

2 - Do well enough in a commissioning program to be rewarded with a pilot slot

3 - Medically qualify for a pilot slot

4 - Attend and complete IFS

5 - Attend and copmplete UPT

6 - Attend and complete a FTU

7 - Make it through a 10 year flying career without being medically DQ'd, force shaped, or killed

And that's just for the Air Force.

I hope your attitude here is just an internet tough-guy thing. If you seriously can't handle criticism or being mocked you are looking into the wrong career field. I can assure you your time in the pilot community will be short and embarrassing - like your pecker.

If you have the desire and motivation to make your dreams happen, and you can shut your mouth and open your ears long enough to learn from those that haven been doing this since you were watching teletubbies, you'll be able to make the family situation happen.

[brewskis]

No thanks to you, cleeding bunt.

...and hopefully lady luck on my side, that if I do get a pilot slot,...

Well after this post...I am considering devoting my life to tracking you down and kicking you in the ######.

Who talks like this? What is a 'cleeding bunt'?

I probably have the most 'family friendly' assignment that you can get as a pilot, but I still spend at least one weekend away from home a month on average, and miss dinner a few days out of the week. Every once and a while, there are a few days where I don't see my 3 year old because she's asleep when I go to work and asleep when I get home. And I have it extremely easy, comparatively. If there's a stable family environment to be had as a pilot, it's as a UPT IP. However, I still find that I work more, and spend more time away from home than most of my bros on the civilian side.

You came here looking for answers, and you got them. I'd suggest you stop attempting to call out guys that have deployed downrange multiple times, missed out on birthdays, anniversaries, dance recitals and soccer games, and maybe had a marriage fail because of that. They have volunteered and participated in a series of conflicts that most citizens have forgotten or don't care about anymore. These same citizens are able to go about their daily routines with their families without fear of real danger from terrorist assholes that the 'cleeding blunts', as you call them, have had a direct or supporting role in killing or capturing with extreme prejudice.

If you do get a pilot's slot to go to UPT, I hope you change your attitude. Since it's becoming increasingly hard to wash students out because they are douchebags, you'll probably pass UPT. Once you get to an operational squadron, you'll be one of the guys that works as little as possible so you can spend more time with your family. But when that happens, you'll just pass your work on to another squadron member that probably has a family, too. Most likely, that guy will spend the extra hour at work to do YOUR job, and spend less time with his family. I see this cycle happen all the time in my squadron, and like I said, I haven't done 1/1000th of what most posters on the board have done.

Also, the name ArtOfWar is incredibly toolish. If you continue posting, I suggest you get something like MaleNestingInstict.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

I'll be frank and honest with you-- find another career. Your priorities do not coincide with the realities of life as an AF pilot. I've seen pilots who have the same kind of prioritization scheme you have. They are UNIVERSALLY HATED in the squadron. These guys always have something going on that prevents them from taking a bite of whatever shit sandwich is being served at the time. Deployment? Nope, can't go, wife is due for kid #5 next month. Work late to finish a tasking? Nope! Kid has a doctor appointment. 365 remote? Nope, kid's first birthday is in a few weeks. PCS to bum fuck nowhere? Nope, no good schools. Sympathetic (read: BAD) commanders seem to regularly cave to these "needs". What the "family man" doesn't realize is that shit sandwiches MUST be consumed, and by him not taking his bite, that means that everyone else must cover his share.

Look, I admire your aspiration to be a father, I really do, but you MUST realize that military life (and ESPECIALLY pilot life) are NOT conducive to the kind of lifestyle you want to have. You WILL be expected to deploy for months at a time (closer to 6mo/yr instead of your idea of 3-4). You WILL be expected to work 12+ hour days, which means you will come home to stick your head in your kids' rooms and watch them sleep for a few minutes. You WILL be expected to move, which means that you will either leave your family at your previous location, or pack them up and move them too. My advice: Something must give. Either realize that your family dream will not happen, or that you need to find a new line of work.

[SocialD]

If you would only love to become a pilot, maybe the Air Force isn't for you join the guard and become a part timer.

FIFY

Edited June 5, 2013 by SocialD

[hindsight2020]

Ditto on all the advice above. As a Reserve guy I'll add that homesteading is much more possible in the Guard/Reserves....but you ain't gonna make dick for money. Getting a full-time position in a desirable unit/location is once again a game of odds and legacy/nepotism, hardly what I would hinge the sell-point of 'homesteading' to a spouse who demands such family construct.

My advice? Don't get married until after 30. Do the pilot thing as a single dude, and if someone rejoins on ya make sure they're copacetic about what it means to be married to an Active Duty pilot. I.e. the possibility of a lot of moves to crappy locations with poor employment prospects for spouses and frequent and prolonged separations. If they can't handle that construct, they're not right for you. if YOU can't handle that construct for at least a UPT commitment, then the construct [i.e. the Active Duty] is not right for YOU either.

It sounds like you're trying to project too far into the future. It's a nice exercise dude but it doesn't work like that. I was an engineering student too, and I had a college girlfriend who had expectations of a "normal" home every night and party with her co-workers on the weekend lifestyle. We divorced quick. I should have broken it off in college in hindsight. Now I have a real spouse, one who accepted and understood the choices and variances of choosing to pursue a life with a full-time military servicemember. But that happened in my 30s where I was already established in my flying career and had gone through several iterations of units and locations. and again, I enjoy a lot more control over my "time away from home" than most Active Duty guys, but if I was doing this stricly part-time, I would have to have a primary career compatible with part-time military service, and let me tell you that is yet another sacrifice and hardship (for another thread).

Lastly the airlines. Better ability for you to commute to work while keeping the family in one city where they want to live. Problem? Going civilian route means no money and a potential hung start career in the first 10 years. It also means they get to stay in one place, but you don't get to see them over a normal schedule (normal world schedule= work M-F free on the weekends, normal airline life= work F-T off on Wed, when the rest of the world is at work). So that is not going to be compatible with your little life plan in my honest opinion.

Good luck to ya. I respect your desire to draw a reasonable line to a stable family life. You're not going to be able to find that in aggregate in active duty military service. You're going to need a spouse who is dead honest willing to accept a below-median American living construct (crappy locations, separations from family). Otherwise, get a cube job and a hobby that makes you forget how much you hate your day job.

[JeremiahWeed]

Also, the name ArtOfWar is incredibly toolish. If you continue posting, I suggest you get something like MaleNestingInstict.

This was awesome! Made me laugh out loud.

[Fuzz]

Who talks like this? What is a 'cleeding bunt'?

Cleeding bunt = bleeding cunt.... And on that note fuck you ArtofWar for calling out men (yes men from which you are obviously far from being) that have put their lives on the line, missed birthdays, anniversarys, births, weddings and every other event you can think of to protect your sorry ass.

I've been in the military for a little over 2 years and come from a very large but very close family and I've missed 3 family weddings of which I was the only member not to make it, I have little cousins that I have never met, I will miss my wife's birthday this year cause I'm stuck in asscrackastan. Don't feel sorry for me, it sucks but it's what I signed up, I knew it coming in; you asked the questions and guys have given you the real version of life, no one on here is bullshitting you.

However, you have neither the mindset or the focus and most of all the respect for those dudes that have gone before you to become a pilot in the AF, so please go find another job asshole.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Fuzz

[Spur38]

If you really wanted to be a pilot you wouldn't bring up any of this whining bullshit....don't attempt to jepoardize the brotherhood by diluting the gene pool.

I've been in the military for a little over 2 years and come from a very large but very close family and I've missed 3 family weddings of which I was the only member not to make it,

.

That's too bad! In my aviation career, I made all 4 of my weddings!

[ArtofWar]

Alright, I am sorry. I felt the need to defend myself. I cannot win though so I will just have to ignore those few who I have shown me the disrespect- that I did in fact reciprocate. But, I have shown the rest of the guys who have answered great respect. I appreciate all of your time answering and all of your time served (whether or not you were respectful towards me, the "FNG") along with the wisdom some of you have shared and finally all of the sacrifices you have made.

I guess since this is my only question some of you are getting the wrong idea. As I said before, I had more questions but they were answered; it's not as though it was perfect family with the typical 2.5 kids with the soccer mom mini van and all that crap- or I am not going to join. It was just the only answer that the people in the Army etc. (along with the AF ROTC recruiter) couldn't really give me a reliable answer about based on their knowledge. Sure family is important and I wanted to emphasize how important it is to me and get a general idea to see how realistic my ideas would hold up. Some of it is perhaps a tad bit unrealistic but I will get there when I get there if I even get there. There were questions I had for every step of the way. This was just one of them. Yes, I do look towards the future, but I am not neglecting the present, the post just is about one facet of the future. I like to plan things out, that is just who I am, I don't think that part of my personality could affect how I take flying and the lifestyle associated with it. It sounds like I might reach an ideal situation...but if not it sounds like you guys have made your families work for the most part and that sounds pretty great to me considering I'd be living out my dream.

This was written in haste so the last part may be a little redundant.

[Sasquatch]

Alright, I am sorry. I felt the need to defend myself. I cannot win though so I will just have to ignore those few who I have shown me the disrespect- that I did in fact reciprocate. But, I have shown the rest of the guys who have answered great respect. I appreciate all of your time answering and all of your time served (whether or not you were respectful towards me, the "FNG") along with the wisdom some of you have shared and finally all of the sacrifices you have made.

I guess since this is my only question some of you are getting the wrong idea. As I said before, I had more questions but they were answered; it's not as though it was perfect family with the typical 2.5 kids with the soccer mom mini van and all that crap- or I am not going to join. It was just the only answer that the people in the Army etc. (along with the AF ROTC recruiter) couldn't really give me a reliable answer about based on their knowledge. Sure family is important and I wanted to emphasize how important it is to me and get a general idea to see how realistic my ideas would hold up. Some of it is perhaps a tad bit unrealistic but I will get there when I get there if I even get there. There were questions I had for every step of the way. This was just one of them. Yes, I do look towards the future, but I am not neglecting the present, the post just is about one facet of the future. I like to plan things out, that is just who I am, I don't think that part of my personality could affect how I take flying and the lifestyle associated with it. It sounds like I might reach an ideal situation...but if not it sounds like you guys have made your families work for the most part and that sounds pretty great to me considering I'd be living out my dream.

This was written in haste so the last part may be a little redundant.

As another "pilot hopeful," I should probably just sit back and shut up, but I can't help myself... Above is what would've likely been a better response...

[matmacwc]

That was actually pretty good

[AnimalMother]

Good lord, i don't even know where to start on this one. Haha. Just do what the rest of us did, ignore that little voice in the back of your head whining that 10 years is a really long time and go ahead and convince yourself that this is where you belong. Ironically, it sounds like someone like you would fast track to command and then continue the unprecedented castration of what used to be a respectable military force. I think you should join ASAP, thankfully, however, ill be long gone by the time you graduate ROTC.

[ATIS]

My advice? Don't get married until after 30.

Hey Art: Lot of advice on this thread, but this little nugget is something I would highly recommend. If you want a family life that survives the long haul, consider what 2020 says. I've seen too many marriages crumble in my 21+ years in the service, and most of that happened in flight training, the RAG, or during initial tours with a squadron (read: things before the age of 30). It's a game of odds, and while some folks win and have success in that area right out of the gate, they are very very few. My first crashed and burned at age 29. I recovered and after a period of getting my head out of my ass and really learning about myself (and having a shit ton of fun with some Hurlburt friends starting up a squadron)...I have never been happier after I met and married four years ago, with absolutely no doubt about the long haul. Early in this career path is much easier as a single ship having fun, and then settling in. Just some advice.

Edited June 5, 2013 by ATIS

[Guest CannonCrashPad]

Well after this post...I am considering devoting my life to tracking you down and kicking you in the ######.

That's better. You're starting to get it. I think by the time you finish your internship with Martha Stewart, you will be almost ready to try Air Force pilot training.

[Recut]

Ahaha. I expected better out of pilots is all, but I guess douchebags are everywhere. You being one yourself.Takes one to know one I guess. I could have asked my ROTC detachment this, but the recruiter I talked to did not seem knowledgeable about pilot life from the questions that I did happen to ask him. So why would I bother asking him when I could actually ask some pilots? Fortunately, I have gotten a lot of in-depth responses. No thanks to you, cleeding bunt. Thanks. I elaborated what I meant on normal in my latter post. It sounds like there really isn't a normal for AF pilots but every pilot and their families learn to cope with the trials presented by the life. That in itself is good to hear. As long as it makes you all happy for the most part, it is good to hear. Also, thanks for the chart to flesh things out. Puts things in perspective. IDEALLY, what normal life would be for me: "I would hope "normal" would be getting to spend several nights a week with my family when I am not deployed and would hope deployment meant only 3-4 months of the year (if I was continually deploying for half a decade or more). That way I could still see my child grow up, keep my wife happy and keep my kid in the same area so he/she could experience a somewhat typical childhood." And yeah it sounds like things are changing a lot thanks to cuts and technology... Good advice...I definitely have a tendency to look much too far in the future. I still have time to think about this decision and I'll see how I feel about my reqs about family...from the answers I have read I feel like none of you regret your decision to become apart of the AF and manage to find a way to find a family and have your fun. So I don't think I want to turn down such a great opportunity for something so far down the line in the future. It is good to also get a reply from a CE officer. Haha...ice cold. It's not that I think I will be getting a pilot slot. It is just in the case that with the hard work I put in, and hopefully lady luck on my side, that if I do get a pilot slot, I want to know in advance that I won't have any regrets for putting in all that work. It sounds as though everyone absolutely loves the life and would trade it for nothing. Enough so that I am crazy for even thinking about family down the line... I am sure to even get to pilot training will be hard. No denying that. Yeah, a lot of great advice from everyone really. Thanks all! And I would rather slap him in the face like the rest of the internet warriors. I am just sorry I came off as "sensitive" for him. I just was surprised to see any here. Thought it'd be a bunch of pilots just shooting the shit after retirement but it seems a lot more diverse here than I imagined. Well after this post...I am considering devoting my life to tracking you down and kicking you in the ######. Thank you all again for the mostly awesome answers. I guess even Crew Dawg & Herc are just trying to say that I am crazy for even thinking about giving up my dream of becoming an AFP because of family matters.

Figured it out: You were looking for a CGOC forum. Or, you are actually a CGOC mole......

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Quibbling.

You came here with a shitbag attitude, didn't like the answers you got and the butthurt flowed forth. You claim you were only going defensive? Choke yourself.

[the g-man]

If you do end up making it to UPT, realize that pilot types will all act like this. If you throw out some dumb question, expect to get reamed. But really you should just leave if you don't like it.

[matmacwc]

Lets see...

CGTB

GMBL

VBF

Asshandsthemanhammer

Manhandstheasshammer

Pussfilledglorybucket

Steve

These are all available for you to change you're name too.

[zach braff]

Kid - The guys on this board are very knowledgable about the Air Force and flying. And many are also knowledgable about the anonymity the internet offers which allows them to be dicks from the safety of their own computers.

Keep in mind that this board is a d-ck measuring contest that happens to have a lot of very valuable info and humor about the Air Force. Once you weed through all the guys jumping at the chance to impress their internet friends by bullying a young kid just looking for some info you'll find some good advice here.

Good luck.

zb

[ArtofWar]

Good lord, i don't even know where to start on this one. Haha. Just do what the rest of us did, ignore that little voice in the back of your head whining that 10 years is a really long time and go ahead and convince yourself that this is where you belong. Ironically, it sounds like someone like you would fast track to command and then continue the unprecedented castration of what used to be a respectable military force. I think you should join ASAP, thankfully, however, ill be long gone by the time you graduate ROTC.

That's what I have been thinking honestly...just be a little impulsive and just do it instead of think about the consequences that this decision may or may not even have. And yes I will definitely be ruining the Air Force according to you all so get out while you can.

Hey Art: Lot of advice on this thread, but this little nugget is something I would highly recommend. If you want a family life that survives the long haul, consider what 2020 says. I've seen too many marriages crumble in my 21+ years in the service, and most of that happened in flight training, the RAG, or during initial tours with a squadron (read: things before the age of 30). It's a game of odds, and while some folks win and have success in that area right out of the gate, they are very very few. My first crashed and burned at age 29. I recovered and after a period of getting my head out of my ass and really learning about myself (and having a shit ton of fun with some Hurlburt friends starting up a squadron)...I have never been happier after I met and married four years ago, with absolutely no doubt about the long haul. Early in this career path is much easier as a single ship having fun, and then settling in. Just some advice.

Thanks a lot for this. Seems like a great idea. It seems like you have a lot of great advice too. You have an interesting story as well, it's good to hear that you are loving life right now, hope it continues to only get better.

Kid - The guys on this board are very knowledgable about the Air Force and flying. And many are also knowledgable about the anonymity the internet offers which allows them to be dicks from the safety of their own computers.

Keep in mind that this board is a d-ck measuring contest that happens to have a lot of very valuable info and humor about the Air Force. Once you weed through all the guys jumping at the chance to impress their internet friends by bullying a young kid just looking for some info you'll find some good advice here.

Good luck.

zb

You live up to your username man, I love Scrubs and all and loved the post. The good advice has definitely outweighed any douchebaggery. I am used to it on the internet being a forumite but I honestly just didn't expect that here. But honestly, I'd probably find this hilarious if I was on the other side too (the responses towards my apparent ######-ness. that is although I would never involve myself in making 'em).

Nonetheless, I can tell everyone here is very knowledgeable whether or not they want to help me out. I could tell as soon as Herc came out after his initial post to lay his knowledge down. And even then, there have been very few that have been absolute dicks, some just blunt or just reading what I am saying wrong too and perhaps I read the douchebaggery as just that when they are trying to give blunt advice.

I've learned a lot from a good amount of these posts.

Thanks to everyone who wrote out their experiences if I didn't formally respond to it.

[Danny Noonin]

Brevity.

[Recut]

Kid - The guys on this board are very knowledgable about the Air Force and flying. And many are also knowledgable about the anonymity the internet offers which allows them to be dicks from the safety of their own computers.

Keep in mind that this board is a d-ck measuring contest that happens to have a lot of very valuable info and humor about the Air Force. Once you weed through all the guys jumping at the chance to impress their internet friends by bullying a young kid just looking for some info you'll find some good advice here.

Good luck.

zb

WTF. The "kid", internet stalker, CGOC rep, whoever it is asked for advice on a fairytale dream involving being a USAF pilot using "intimate" in the title.

The "kid", internet stalker, CGOC rep or whoever got a lot of solid advice for such a shitty initial post and should be grateful for it.

I will tailor my advice to the doucher cuz the "kid" only wants to hear what "he" wants to hear. And it is 100% true because i am deployed right now.

I absolutely LOVE that I have been deployed for 310 days in the past year! My family IS in one place right now!!! It is so special and sweet! I missed trick-or-treating, thanksgiving, christmas, new years, my anniversary, both my wife and kids' birthdays and my kid's first dance recital!

For my family, that IS normal right now. Art came looking for advice and that's the truth from a deployed AF pilot. I've been married for 9 yrs and have a young kid. And I'm 35 like "his" dream talks about. Art, you get genuine advice about the real world and not your little dreamy rainbow world.........and from pilots nonetheless.........and call people like me douches -----

Go F yourself. You wouldn't last a day in the military, let alone a flying squadron.

[ArtofWar]

WTF. The "kid", internet stalker, CGOC rep, whoever it is asked for advice on a fairytale dream involving being a USAF pilot using "intimate" in the title.

The "kid", internet stalker, CGOC rep or whoever got a lot of solid advice for such a shitty initial post and should be grateful for it.

I will tailor my advice to the doucher cuz the "kid" only wants to hear what "he" wants to hear. And it is 100% true because i am deployed right now.

I absolutely LOVE that I have been deployed for 310 days in the past year! My family IS in one place right now!!! It is so special and sweet! I missed trick-or-treating, thanksgiving, christmas, new years, my anniversary, both my wife and kids' birthdays and my kid's first dance recital!

For my family, that IS normal right now. Art came looking for advice and that's the truth from a deployed AF pilot. I've been married for 9 yrs and have a young kid. And I'm 35 like "his" dream talks about. Art, you get genuine advice about the real world and not your little dreamy rainbow world.........and from pilots nonetheless.........and call people like me douches -----

Go F yourself. You wouldn't last a day in the military, let alone a flying squadron.

I have not slandered ANYONE who has given me advice...I don't know why some of you are thinking that. I defended myself when a couple people called me out for being a ###### and such without even giving me any advice or trying to understand where I am coming from; I have been nothing but respectful to everyone else. Thanks for your advice.

Let me reiterate so this doesn't happen again. The only people I think/have said are douchebags are the people who come in here with nothing to say but slander. When that happened I chose to defend myself. But now I will simply ignore it. I have given my full respect to anyone who has offered any slither of advice.

[Danny Noonin]

For fuck's sake, you just cannot shut up, can you?