"Flaming" guys in uniform?

[Catbox]

Of course this is the only forum where I'm comfortable discussing this so here goes...

Today I went to finance and was helped by the first openly gay person I've met in uniform...except not only was he gay, he rode a pink surfboard on a rainbow wave whenever it was that he came out. Complete with nail polish, a very meticulously done goatee (I casually asked him if he had a shaving waiver, he said politely that he was working on it). If there ever there was a walking stereotype, this kid was it.

To be honest, as far as finance trips go, this was maybe top third. He knew what he was talking about and I don't think I will have to make a second trip.

I like to think of myself as pretty open minded but I have to be honest that this kids mannerisms made me feel embarrassed for him and the uniform that he was wearing, in spite of the fact that he seemed like a decent troop.

Is this an isolated incident of a guy working for a MSgt or Captain too afraid to tell him what’s what or is this a sign of things to come?

Edited June 26, 2013 by Catbox

[pawnman]

Of course this is the only forum where I'm comfortable discussing this so here goes...

Today I went to finance and was helped by the first openly gay person I've met in uniform...except not only was he gay, he rode a pink surfboard on rainbow wave whenever it was then he came out. Complete with nail polish, a very meticulously done goatee (I casually asked him if he had a shaving waiver, he said politely that he was working on it). If there ever there was a walking stereotype, this kid was it.

To be honest, as far as finance trips go, this was maybe top third. He knew what he was talking about and I don't think I will have to make a second trip.

I like to think of myself as pretty open minded but I have to be honest that this kids mannerisms made me feel embarrassed for him and the uniform that he was wearing, in spite of the fact that he seemed like a decent troop.

Is this an isolated incident of a guy working for a MSgt or Captain too afraid to tell him what’s what or is this a sign of things to come?

Honestly, I'll take competence and nail polish over a Vin Deisel clone who can't find my travel voucher any day.

[HeloDude]

Uniform standards are still uniform standards regardless of who he banging or getting banged by. No shaving waiver--then he has to shave, period dot. You would have been totally within your lane to say something to him and/or his supervisor. As for the nail polish--you're saying he was wearing nail polish in uniform too?

[Catbox]

Uniform standards are still uniform standards regardless of who he banging or getting banged by. No shaving waiver--then he has to shave, period dot. You would have been totally within your lane to say something to him and/or his supervisor. As for the nail polish--you're saying he was wearing nail polish in uniform too?

Absolutely...blackish colored nail polish.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Catbox

[HeloDude]

Absolutely...blackish colored nail polish.

Just looked it up (I'm bored)--according to AFI 26-2903 page 15, males are not authorized to wear nail polish. You should have said something.

And as for Pawnman's comment: I hear you in that we want competent folks, but why can't we have competent folks who are also adhering to the regs and standards? Has the Air Force gotten that bad?

[pawnman]

Just looked it up (I'm bored)--according to AFI 26-2903 page 15, males are not authorized to wear nail polish. You should have said something. And as for Pawnman's comment: I hear you in that we want competent folks, but why can't we have competent folks who are also adhering to the regs and standards? Has the Air Force gotten that bad?

Fair point, but interesting that many here have so many complaints when a chief calls them out for rolling up sleeves or wearing a moral patch become such proponents of the uniform reg for others.

Agree that this guy needs to either shave or get a waiver, and the nail polish needs to go. My point was on a larger scale...I really don't care about someone's orientation or speech patterns if they are competent and get their job done.

[HU&W]

Just looked it up (I'm bored)--according to AFI 26-2903 page 15, males are not authorized to wear nail polish. You should have said something.

And as for Pawnman's comment: I hear you in that we want competent folks, but why can't we have competent folks who are also adhering to the regs and standards? Has the Air Force gotten that bad?

Honest question, does he really have to be male if he doesn't want to, and if so, should he be held to those standards? Take the example of the TG boy in Colorado who decided he is a girl and was recently granted legal permission to use the female restroom even though he retains the male plumbing. Other similar cases have occurred and are certain to move into the military soon. For example, if a man declares himself a woman and is recognized as a TG female, does he then PT test under the female standards? Does he begin wearing the female uniform items?

I think that between these issues and the pending allowance of females in all combat units, we're very close to the only right answer being gender neutrality in every aspect of military service. That would mean everyone is held to the same PT standards. It would mean uniform requirements become gender neutral, with either everybody (or nobody) being allowed to wear heels, skirts, earrings, nail polish, long/short hair, etc... I'm honestly not sure our gender discriminatory standards will stand the legal test of the next few years. I can't say I agree with it going that way, but with the issue of gender becoming so muddy I can't see how it wouldn't.

[Skitzo]

I might have said something to him in private. I have a real problem with being corrected for the position of my sunglasses in public, so I think I would give him that respect.

[Spur38]

Perhaps a new SECAF = AFI Deltas? With nail color options....

[Darth]

Where is a Chief when you want one?

[Hacker]

I might have said something to him in private. I have a real problem with being corrected for the position of my sunglasses in public, so I think I would give him that respect.

I have no issue with a superior rank correcting a subordinate rank in public. All too often, it is the opposite that takes place, and I find that to be way out of line.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Hacker

[Darth]

I have no issue with a superior rank correcting a subordinate rank in public. All too often, it is the opposite that takes place, and I find that to be way out of line.

Agreed.

[Skitzo]

Hacker--agreed. If time and conditions don't permit a pvt discussion then shut your pie hole. But I think that cuts both ways.

We are kinder and gentler and even though I'd like to believe I can correct any member of the service the same way I can correct a member of my crew during a debrief it doesn't work that way.

[Kenny Powers]

Here is another serious question:

How do you work out the logistics of where they sleep/shower on deployments and tdys?

Edited June 26, 2013 by Kenny Powers

[Day Man]

As a straight dude and an adult, I would have no problem sharing a room with a gay dude. If something he was doing made me uncomfortable, I would tell him and politely ask him to stop. After that, it goes up the chain just like any other work conflict.

[pawnman]

Here is another serious question: How do you work out the logistics of where they sleep/shower on deployments and tdys?

I don't know...how do colleges manage it?

Day man is correct...you're both adults. Get over it, and if he's creeping you out with comments about how you should hook up, then ask to change rooms.

It's not like you're going to catch "gay" from sleeping in the same room.

[HeloDude]

By your logic men and chicks should be able to share a room together...but wait, it doesn't happen.

[pawnman]

By your logic men and chicks should be able to share a room together...but wait, it doesn't happen.

For the same reason it doesn't happen on college campuses, and the same reason there are different restrooms.

[HeloDude]

For the same reason it doesn't happen on college campuses, and the same reason there are different restrooms.

Exactly--hypocrites on both sides of the argument.

[hd5032]

Here is another serious question:

How do you work out the logistics of where they sleep/shower on deployments and tdys?

This has already been happening for as long as there has been a military, and its been working out ok so far. I wouldn't sweat it.

Edited June 26, 2013 by hd5032

[Ram]

Based on the thread title, I thought this thread was about Eagle pilots.

[Kenny Powers]

This has already been happening for as long as there has been a military, and its been working out ok so far. I wouldn't sweat it.

I'm not concerned about it personally, just wondered what everyones thoughts were on the subject. Also, there used to be a lot more to lose (or at least that was the claim) if you were open about it, not the case anymore.

Multiple situations where I can see this becoming an issue (not that it should but it sets the environment for one). Keep in mind, this applies all the way across DoD. Lots of young, enlisted troops may not handle it well (and I can say that because I was once a young enlisted troop), might be some religous issues, etc..

Edited June 26, 2013 by Kenny Powers

[brickhistory]

Accept or be considered homophobic and subject to military sanctions. Your views/opinions/beliefs are secondary to theirs.

Seems fair...

[Day Man]

since when is the military fair?

[brickhistory]

Better if I say it appears that one belief system is being substituted for another?

The exact argument made to get to this point?