Opinions on C-17 v KC-10 (as well as bases?)

[Jeepers21]

C-17s are cool too though. I hear they get to land on some REALLY short runways...like that one near MacDill.

Gotta love good ol Peter O'Knight. I was doing preflight at KTPF when this bad boy landed. Should have seen the faces on some of the people.

Edited July 23, 2013 by AceMohr

[Azimuth]

But you'll be there for 3, 4 years tops, and then you move on and almost certainly never go back, and now you're stuck with your MWS wherever in the world that may take you for the rest of your career, assuming you don't get out immediately or manage to crosstrain. If you enjoy your mission, then I guess you hit the jackpot.

Not true in the MAF world. People can cross flow via a PHOENIX program.

[ThreeHoler]

Not true in the MAF world. People can cross flow sell their soul via a PHOENIX program.

FIFY

[Lord Ratner]

Here's what you're not realizing about the location vs mission thing: yes you're living in England right now, which is great, congratulations. But you'll be there for 3, 4 years tops, and then you move on and almost certainly never go back, and now you're stuck with your MWS wherever in the world that may take you for the rest of your career, assuming you don't get out immediately or manage to crosstrain. If you enjoy your mission, then I guess you hit the jackpot.

Picking based off a location is just shortsighted when one must take into account that they have 2 more assignments left until their commitment is done. I think it's funny how some studs brag about getting their first choice in UPT to some exotic location, and then in 5 years they're posting on Facebook about how they eventually wound up at a place they were trying to avoid anyway.

You're assuming I care about the mission. I've done three so far (two if you dont count AETC), and I've learned I care about location more than mission. Just like I said before. You can also pick an airframe based on future assignment opportunity. But it's not short-sighted to pick based on a location when you decide you are more concerned with the location.

I don't know what your background is, but a fairly large portion of the people at my base now came from other platforms. Not really uncommon

[WheelsOff]

Your follow-on assignment options will be to go to the other base or to UPT/UAV then to the other base, followed by whatever path you choose in life. I have no idea how C-17 follow-one goes

Not great in the past. What many would have considered a "good" follow on assignment would have been a T-6 to UPT. Word on the street though is that the pendulum is about to swing the other direction again, at least temporarily, and we should start to see more ops-ops tours again. The problem primarily stems from (IMO) the fact that the C-17 has been the AF's go-to airframe to absorb extra pilots to give AFPC a good pool of folks to draw from for those "bad deal" assignments. As with everything in the AF though, it's all about timing and luck.

[Buddy Spike]

Perhaps I can purchase some e-credibility on the cyberweb with 10,000 theoretical internet dollars so that forums user Buddy Spike will be satisfied.

So easy to hide behind the anonymity of the internet isn't it?

[moosepileit]

J1234=GC/2.69

[Guest LumberjackAxe]

meh... I picked 75% location and 25% mission. I racked the MAF assignments based pretty much on location since I really did not (and still don't) care about the minimal mission differences between C-5s, C-17s, KC-135s, and KC-10s (ended up with 10s at Travis). I would still do it the same way (75% location, 25% mission) since I'm not a fanboy of any specific airframe, and would recommend any single UPT grad to do the same (who is kind of up in the air about their assignment).

[StoleIt]

I'm neither a C-17 or -10 driver, but I can say I picked based off location and I have no regret. I love the -135 and I guarantee I would have loved any other jet just as much.

TL;DR = TFI is the best thing known to man.

[Stank]

I flew -135s and was able to switch to C-17s. Now I fly a desk. Strat airlift mission is a lot more enjoyable and more interesting than the refueling mission. I realize 10s are different than 135s, but 90% of their mission is flying circles over the sandbox. When flying C-17s, you could be anywhere in the world tomorrow, I thought that was cool. The deployment tempo of the -135 (60 on, 60 off while I was flying, similar to 10s) was a little more predictable and easier to manage than C-17s.

[Rake47]

I really appreciate the info from everyone. I'm thinking my final list will be:

KC-10 : Travis

KC-10 : McGuire

C-17 : McChord

C-17 : Charleston

Unless anyone has a sudden burst of insight they wish to share? : ]

[ThreeHoler]

I realize 10s are different than 135s, but 90% of their mission is flying circles over the sandbox.

It didn't used to be this way. Back in the day, 10s flew coronets and cargo around the world for their 90%. Those are the days I miss most...although, as an old fart I get to fly world-wide a lot more than I get to deploy. So, life is still good in the 10.

[FUSEPLUG]

- C-17s seem to have a harder life on the road from the outside looking in. Their fatigue level is reflected in the incidents they've had.

In part, there were deeper underlying training/upgrade issues that drove a majority of these "incidents." I'd argue that fatigue for MAF crews is pretty universal. But that's probably a discussion for another thread...

[Techsan]

I really appreciate the info from everyone. I'm thinking my final list will be:

KC-10 : Travis

KC-10 : McGuire

C-17 : McChord

C-17 : Charleston

Unless anyone has a sudden burst of insight they wish to share? : ]

Good call...Travis is a great location.

Another pro for the KC-10: FTU is located at your base! None of this having to spend countless months in Altus, OK away from home. Initial qual, AC upgrade, and IP upgrade all done while you are at home. The only drawback is that sometimes the squadrons don't treat it as if you are "TDY to Altus" and want you to do some office work while you're in upgrade, although the FTU does a good job of shielding students from that BS while you're there.

For the C-17 guys: Between initial qual & upgrades, how much time do you spend in Altus?

[jazzdude]

In part, there were deeper underlying training/upgrade issues that drove a majority of these "incidents." I'd argue that fatigue for MAF crews is pretty universal. But that's probably a discussion for another thread...

Hmm, that'd be an interesting discussion. I wonder if the last few -17 mishaps have a trend as to where the crews came from.

[Majestik Møøse]

It's also impossible for us to crash seeing as we have both an engineer AND a boom in the cockpit.

[USAF Pilot]

It's also impossible for us to crash seeing as we have both an engineer AND a boom in the cockpit.

Maybe not impossible but our (KC-10) safety record is pretty darn good.

[rulk88]

I've been at Travis in the KC-10 for a year and a half. I picked location over mission, but looking back I wouldn't do anything differently. Location is great, there's the Bay Area, Tahoe, and lots to do in between. The 10 community is great, and the mission rocks. Deployed twice, getting ready to go back for #3, pretty standard for the new guy. The missions from home have slowed down a bit, but not as much as you would expect.

If you are looking for more specific info, PM me.

[Snooter]

For the C-17 guys: Between initial qual & upgrades, how much time do you spend in Altus?

9-10 months including all of the airdrop schools, if you don't go airdrop you're only looking at 5-6...

[pcola]

I suggest you FAIP and bide your time for a C-5! In the end, it will be worth the wait.

[B*D*A]

9-10 months including all of the airdrop schools, if you don't go airdrop you're only looking at 5-6...

4 months to learn how to do drops? Don't strain yourselves...

[Rake47]

I suggest you FAIP and bide your time for a C-5! In the end, it will be worth the wait.

I'd consider it if it weren't for the location I'd be FAIPing to, the fact that there's no guarantee there will even be a C-5 dropped after my FAIP tour, and the fact that it's entirely possible to xtrain to the C-5 later if I really put my mind to it.

[jazzdude]

4 months to learn how to do drops? Don't strain yourselves...

Also includes learning formation. And the typical day there isn't packed, so its almost a vacation from AMC.

If I remember correctly, these are the approximate course lengths in months:

IQT 4

CP (Airdrop) 2

PCO (AC) 1.5

AC (Airdrop) 1.5

IP 2

Lead/MC - In house

Heck, I think I've spent more time physically at Altus than at Charleston.

[itsokimapilot]

I really appreciate the info from everyone. I'm thinking my final list will be:

KC-10 : Travis

KC-10 : McGuire

C-17 : McChord

C-17 : Charleston

Unless anyone has a sudden burst of insight they wish to share? : ]

I've been to over 150 countries in ten years in the C17. I've done airdrop in three continents. Oh and if Travis and McGuire are what float your boat, we are there too. Comparing 10 and 17 bases who cares? If you want to burn holes in the sky and support everyone else's mission, good for you. Somebody has to do it.

[Buddy Spike]

If you want to burn holes in the sky and support everyone else's mission, good for you. Somebody has to do it.

Don't kid yourself. No matter what you fly, everyone is supporting someone else's mission.