Fighter guys...flying with tapes?

[Ram]

So I just finished my T-38C upgrade, and now this FAIP is finally starting to fly with a HUD tape on a daily basis.

For the fighter guys out there that fly with tapes: How do you cope with this? It seems like every little thing I say in the jet now is subject to scrutiny...and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Sure, I try to keep my language clean, and I'm not screwing around (sts) and doing stuff I shouldn't in the air (in this or any other aircraft, of course). I'm not concerned about flight discipline issues. However, do the lawyers love to pull tapes any time something nonstandard is observed?

I was flying with a LtCol the other day doing some CT stuff, and he asked me "are you sure about our clearance." I said "yeah, I'm sure." His reply: "Well, at least it's on the tapes that I asked you."

Me:

So...for the guys who are used to this kinda stuff: Any good words to share for a young LT to put to good use?

Thanks in advance.

[Guest Pan130]

Suck it up...most real planes have voice recorders. Don't be dump and you have nothing to worry about. If active duty is that worried if you say "the" instead of "then", then this country is in deep $hit. Do your job and don't worry about if you will get yelled at. Read the rules...follow them unless situation dictates otherwise....move on and have a beer. You will move on in your career anyway. Tell the LTCOL to get clarification if he is worried if the clearance is bad. That is a good pilot....if in doubt ask...."well at least it's on tape" F..you Puss$$. Ask if you are in doubt. Pilot's these days need to grow some BALL$

[Guest skipplet]

TURN THE HEAT OFF!

[Guest THE10MAN]

O-F-F!

[ClearedHot]

I TURN HEAT ON!!!

[Chuck17]

CAN YOU HEAR ME UP THERE?

[F-15E WSO]

Nothing wrong with swearing on the tape. You just need a sense of humor.

Tape's a great thing. You just need a sense of humility. You should learn a lot in your debriefs and the tape is a great device to capture what happened so you can recreate critical portions of attacks / engagements and find errors and learn from them.

Thick skin + no excuses = good.

[Hacker]

Originally posted by Fury220:

So...for the guys who are used to this kinda stuff: Any good words to share for a young LT to put to good use?

Yeah...shut your f*cking man pleaser. Anything you say can and will be used against you.

You'll also be occasionally rewarded because everything everyone else says can and will be used against them, too. Stuck mics, especially.

Sure, the lawyer types can use your tape against you, but if you're keeping it clean then your tape can also be used to keep you safe. That's happened to me more than once -- saved by the tape.

So, the reality is that the rest of your career there's going to be a tape running, so get used to it now. Live by it and die by it.

[ 06. September 2006, 20:06: Message edited by: Hacker ]

[Guest ShortThrow]

TURN THE GOD DAMNED HEAT OFF!

[B-O-double-Z]

Do you have a digital recorder or an 8mm tape?

I wouldn't sweat it too much. The LTC was probably being facitious. If he was really concerned, he would have expressed a stronger objection, and told you to query the controller. And if he does, you shouldn't be defensive about it. It's called CRM.

The HUD tape is a trememdous tool. Whether it's high school football, the 7-11 survailence camera, or your HUD tape, the old adage holds true...the film don't lie. I'm disgusted by anyone who is afraid to (or makes an excuse not to) show anything that they did on their tape. A huge part of our business is having the balls that it takes to own everything you do in that jet. It doesn't belong to you. It belongs to Uncle Sam.

Keep your tape running and be prepared to show it proudly in the de-brief; for good or bad. It is a great tool and dispeller of bullshit. As an IP, I want to show my tape to the stud. If you are good, and you're doing an earnest job, there is nothing to shrink from. Fvck the lawyers...I want my tape on to show the bastards that I was doing everything right. If you find yourself avoiding popping your tape in the machine in the debrief, you may need to take a look at yourself.

[Guest CBStud]

Dude, tapes are a great thing. You'll only have them on when you are fighting, ie fence in to fence out. Plus it gives you the chances to catch some really funny sh1t on the radio. CAPs for hearing a stupid question totally humiliating #1 is:

TAPES - ON

KEY MIC - "SAY AGAIN"

It took me almost the entire B-course before I got used to not swearing into the tapes and cussing out my IP. Broke that habit after flying with the SQ/CC. Don't worry about the tapes. Like others said, they'll prove you right from time to time.

[Ram]

Thanks for all the O-F-F replies...hilarious.

Let me clarify: I'm not afraid of pilots looking at my tapes. That's an excellent thing. We get to learn from each other and own up when we screw up. More of that in this day and age is a good thing. Period dot.

I suppose the "keep your mouth shut and fly" is good advice in the face of so many "pilot-lawyers," though.

Bozz -- you get the best reply award. Good words, man. FWIW, we run 8mm tape that's backed-up by a 64M digital card. The Tron Card talks with the computer to record flight parameters. It's mostly for Mx download after flights, and I bet it comes in handy (sts) any time the jet is anything other than Code 1. We'll start using it for 2-ship debriefs on a limited basis here at KSPS. It'll be nice to show the studs precisely where they were and what was going on throughout the profile...as long as we don't use it as a crutch.

The more I think about it, maybe 8mm tape and Tron Cards is all we have left in the war against SNAPs...but I'm a SNAP myself, so what do I know?

's on me, gents.

[Guest Sniper5482]

just don't forget and have to do the walk of shame back to the jet that i did today by leaving your tape and/or data card in the jet after shutdown...by that time the crew chief has already taken it out and you'll spend the next 30 min trying to track it down for the debrief that you are now really late too...

that's one beer owed and counting...

-Sniper

[EvilEagle]

I'd say (like most things) it depends. If you are one of those dudes that yells at yourself when you f$#k up (like I used to do), or yells at someone else when they f$#k up, do yourself a favor and turn the intercom down after you title in.

For a while, dudes will want to hear your G-strain, so you might have to at least keep the intercom up for that. I had to stop my cussing habits (or at least try) once I became an IP because I talk into my tapes about stuff the stud is doing.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Technique only...

Who care who hears what you say into your tape.

However, you only have so much SA to burn.

If you are talking into your tape you are likely talking about something that already happened. That's what the debrief is for.

Use your brain bytes in the jet to think about things you haven't done yet.

Go fly in the back seat of a white jet if you like to talk while you fly.

[Hacker]

Originally posted by Rainman A-10:

Go fly in the back seat of a white jet if you like to talk while you fly.

That's exactly where he is.

[Guest rumblefish_2]

Originally posted by Rainman A-10:

Who care who hears what you say into your tape.

When you get into the CAF you'll start feeling more this way. Like someone said before it'll only be on for your tape title and fence in thru fence out. Anyone who blows up about what you say on your tape forgot about all the stupid things they've said and done on tape. I could make a greatest hits album for sure...

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Originally posted by Hacker:

That's exactly where he is.

[Hacker]

Originally posted by Rainman A-10:

Then I realized the T-38C is the standard white jet now. Is it?

IIRC, He's a T-38 FAIP at Sheppard (ENJJPT type, not IFF), and they have been in the process of swapping their T-38As for T-38Cs.

You're correct that the '38C is now the White Jet and Blue Jet standard. Sheppard is trailing the rest of AETC because of the White Elephant called NATO.

[Hacker]

Originally posted by rumblefish_2:

When you get into the CAF you'll start feeling more this way. Like someone said before it'll only be on for your tape title and fence in thru fence out. Anyone who blows up about what you say on your tape forgot about all the stupid things they've said and done on tape.

During OIF our bomb hits were digitized and sent to the CAOC daily. That tape could be seen by damn near anyone, up to and including the CENTAF/CC or higher.

The Wing CC at the 'Deid did not appreciate the "die motherf*cker" comments on the tapes, and apparently he'd heard from his superiors about it. Crap rolls downhill, as you can imagine.

I find it's smarter to not bypass the opportunity to keep your mouth shut and let your good work on the film speak for itself, rather than having to explain yourself to anyone.

Besides, any time you're talking in the cockpit, you are comm-jamming your radios and the RWR, both of which are higher priority than anything you have to say into your tape while in Indian territory.

[ 08. September 2006, 04:05: Message edited by: Hacker ]

[trailmix]

Heard a story of a dude dropping a LGB and as the countdown got to :01 he said "knock-knock!" Supposedly he was sent home.

Sounds like bullshit to me... both ways

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Originally posted by Hacker:

During OIF our bomb hits were digitized and sent to the CAOC daily. That tape could be seen by damn near anyone, up to and including the CENTAF/CC or higher.

Excellent point.

First off, mx gets a quick look at your tape(s) to make sure the recorder is working properly. Of course, if you have time while waiting for the bus you show the mx guys some of the stuff you blew up if it isn't classified above their level. Then you go straight to ops.

The Top 3, FS/CC, OG/CC and or FW/CC may stop you right at the ops desk. They will ask to see something specific to answer questions coming in from the CAOC or to lead turn potential questions based on the SATCOM traffic they are listening to behind the ops desk and in the command post. From there you hustle your ass into intel and debrief.

Intel wants your film so they can hand it to the WSV folks who will make brief clips to send with their intel reports. Like Hacker said, have lost control of who can see your work once your WSV hits the SIPRnet, just like an email. Then you try to debrief.

Most of the time you are covering the motherhood and gathering other data, waiting for intel to finish with your film and deliver it to your debrief. We had a couple extra layers of folks looking at our film in OIF. First, representatives of the guys we were working with would come over and want to see specific things. Also, we had a group of analysts that would go over our film, frame by frame, looking for some other specific things. Those analysts cared about the things we didn't blow up.

After everything was over the film got filed away. That means the only shot you got to look at your film was on the flightline with mx while waiting for the bus and during your debrief with people literally waiting outside the door (or on the other side of the poncho strung up to "simulate a door" in our case because we did everything out of tents) for your film.

I had an intel troop who was looking at some things on the film who thought we had a LOAC violation. He was only looking at 10 seconds before and 10 seconds after the impacts. He took it upon himself to follow the checklist and inform folks up the chain (off base) of the potential problem. Next thing you know, there were SEVEN JAGs wanting a piece of our guys. This all happened during the day when the night guys were sleeping. I came out of my Vampire coffin to that delightful present. "Sorry, we didn't want to wake you up and bust your crew rest..." was the excuse. It took three days to get the JAGs off our backs for something the flight should've received a DFC for. Three days is a long time when you're running 24 hour combat flight operations and you need every single pilot to fill the schedule and meet the tasking. We had a little debrief and change to procedures after that.

On top of all that, there were several times when some of our santitized wsv ended up on CNN or Fox or BBC news. Some guys get off on that, I always cringed.

Then, once you get home, everyone in the Air Force wants copies of your WSV. We especially had enormous pressure (from other units to the 3-1 guys at Nellis) to release our film since we were the first A-10s to ever use a targeting pod. I did not release any of our stuff. I was willing to brief people and show them segments of film we had selected and sanitized but I never left any copies. The only exception was a copy of a brief and additional background video I left with the CSAF (some people you don't say no to).

Luckily, most people didn't have the clearance to look at our raw video. I felt like an Eagle guy..."No, you can't see my film. You'll just have to believe that you were dead."

One major reason I didn't release any film was becuase of persoal security issues. The last thing anyone needs is for the wrong person to somehow get a copy of video where eight years down the road they see the exact coordinates and time their brother/uncle/favorite mullah got smoked and then trace it back to you and do something to your family. May sound paraniod but that is what our enemy is like.

Digital video is just too easy for someone to find on a computer, load on a thumb drive and sneaker net out of the vault to show their friends or family. None of our guys would do that but you can't control it once you give it away to someone else.

Originally posted by Hacker:

Besides, any time you're talking in the cockpit, you are comm-jamming your radios and the RWR, both of which are higher priority than anything you have to say into your tape while in Indian territory.

Talking in the jet, whether on the radio or to yourself/your tape is almost always an SA dumping event.

[Guest talondriver]

The T-38C just went to the block 5 avionics suite. One of the changes is being able to see what Stan's typing in the UFCP real time. You can also type in short messages using UR-1 on the basic page. Kinda like text messaging.

So the next time the LtCol says something wise*ss like that, type in B-*-T-C-H or E-A-T-M-E and the rest of the world will never know :D

[ 08. September 2006, 19:54: Message edited by: talondriver ]

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Originally posted by talondriver:

You can also type in short messages using UR-1 on the basic page. Kinda like text messaging.

That's cute.

[Guest talondriver]

Originally posted by Rainman A-10:

That's cute.