RPA/UAV life

[rcatchum]

Gentleman,

After reviewing the forums I believe that most of the information I'll be asking in this post is several years old and, thus, almost certainly out of date.

In an effort to gather sufficient information to make an informed decision about RPAs (information that my recruiter either a) doesn't have for b) isn't sharing) I'm hoping to find some answers here.

I'll write my questions in a bullet format to make answering easier. If you feel that a particular question was answered in a previous thread (and that the information is still current and relevant), please let me know and I'll remove it.

1) Several threads have indicated that RPA training is not the same as typical (2 year) flight training. How long is RPA training? 9 months? 1 year?

2) Based on other discussions, it seems even fighter pilots are getting railroaded into spending the rest of their careers in UAVs. Going in as a RPA from the get-go, can I assume that is where my career will be spent? That there is little to no chance of being absconded to some other MOS? I ask this because, while I would love to be a fighter pilot and dreamed of it as a kid, adult responsibilities have dictated this would be the better choice for me and my family.

3) How many bases do RPAs operate out of? Are any/how many are outside the US? I believe I saw 4 bases in my forum reading, is that correct? Do most of these bases have on base housing assignments, or can you always decide to live off-base?

4) What is deployment/relocating like? A big hang-up for my wife is the threat of six month/year long deployments/being ordered to move at the drop of a hat, and being owned by the military. That is a huge reason why I dropped my pilot application with the Marines and am looking at the more family-friendly Air Force.

I think those four sum it up for now. Based on your answers I may have some follow-up questions later.

Thank you all

Edited July 28, 2013 by rcatchum

[nunya]

4) What is deployment/relocating like? A big hang-up for my wife is the threat of six month/year long deployments/being ordered to move at the drop of a hat, and being owned by the military. That is a huge reason why I dropped my pilot application with the Marines and am looking at the more family-friendly Air Force.

I'll use kid gloves for your first reply. Others might not be so friendly.

If you think the AF is any more family friendly than the Marines, you're simply kidding yourself. If you join the AF, you'll deploy for at least 6 months multiple times. You'll probably do at least 1 year tour away from your wife. You'll still move at the drop of a hat, even in the RPA world. You'll still be owned by the military. If #4 is really a hangup, do not join the AF. There is not a single job in the AF that's family friendly.

[rcatchum]

I'll use kid gloves for your first reply. Others might not be so friendly.

If you think the AF is any more family friendly than the Marines, you're simply kidding yourself. If you join the AF, you'll deploy for at least 6 months multiple times. You'll probably do at least 1 year tour away from your wife. You'll still move at the drop of a hat, even in the RPA world. You'll still be owned by the military. If #4 is really a hangup, do not join the AF. There is not a single job in the AF that's family friendly.

Fair enough, and I appreciate the brunt honestly: it is what I'm looking for.

Maybe I've been operating on false assumptions, maybe not. It's hard to get a straight answer from my recruiter, and all I'm getting is hearsay and second hand information. So direct information from others in RPA is great.

[ThreeHoler]

Most important thing to understand: recruiters lie to make their quotas.

[rcatchum]

Most important thing to understand: recruiters lie to make their quotas.

Which is why I figure its worth getting information straight from the pointy end of the stick. While you guys are capable of lying just as much as the next, you are less motivated to do so. (I hope anyway :) )

[matmacwc]

We have no reason to lie, nunya is correct. Recruiters do lie, if this is what you want, do not enlist with a recruiter, make sure you are filling out OTS or ROTC applications.

Make sure you do this for the right reasons. When you are walking to your car at Creech AFB after an 8 hour predator tour and look up at the fighters RTBing to Nellis, ask yourself how that would feel, knowing you'll never....ever....do that.

Edited July 29, 2013 by matmacwc

[guineapigfury]

Gentleman,

After reviewing the forums I believe that most of the information I'll be asking in this post is several years old and, thus, almost certainly out of date.

In an effort to gather sufficient information to make an informed decision about RPAs (information that my recruiter either a) doesn't have for b) isn't sharing) I'm hoping to find some answers here.

I'll write my questions in a bullet format to make answering easier. If you feel that a particular question was answered in a previous thread (and that the information is still current and relevant), please let me know and I'll remove it.

1) Several threads have indicated that RPA training is not the same as typical (2 year) flight training. How long is RPA training? 9 months? 1 year?

2) Based on other discussions, it seems even fighter pilots are getting railroaded into spending the rest of their careers in UAVs. Going in as a RPA from the get-go, can I assume that is where my career will be spent? That there is little to no chance of being absconded to some other MOS? I ask this because, while I would love to be a fighter pilot and dreamed of it as a kid, adult responsibilities have dictated this would be the better choice for me and my family.

3) How many bases do RPAs operate out of? Are any/how many are outside the US? I believe I saw 4 bases in my forum reading, is that correct? Do most of these bases have on base housing assignments, or can you always decide to live off-base?

4) What is deployment/relocating like? A big hang-up for my wife is the threat of six month/year long deployments/being ordered to move at the drop of a hat, and being owned by the military. That is a huge reason why I dropped my pilot application with the Marines and am looking at the more family-friendly Air Force.

I think those four sum it up for now. Based on your answers I may have some follow-up questions later.

Thank you all

I'm a deployed UAV pilot, flew KC-135s and MC-12s formerly, take my advice for what you will.

1. UAV training is shorter than pilot training, but not by too much (I can't speak for Global Hawks). Use the search function. Length of training should not drive this decision. All of the UPT locations suck, as does Alamogordo where MQ-1 and MQ-9 IQT takes place. Call that a wash. You can wash out of both, so bring your A game wherever you go.

2. Expect going the UAV-direct route to close the door to flying manned aircraft. The majority of UAV pilots right now are guys forced into UAVs sometime at after graduating UPT. The vast majority of them want to return to flying manned aircraft. All of them would be in line in front of you. Retention and morale are grievous issues in this community, which is why the 18X career field exists. However, those few people in this community who are happy are the ones who chose it in order to be home with the wife and kids. Your family situation, your call. Understand that just because you aren't on the road doesn't mean you will be at home. 60-80 hour weeks are normal.

3. There are several active duty bases for 1s and 9s: Off the top of my head: Creech, Cannon, Holloman (FTU), Ellsworth (9s only) and Whiteman (1s only). Global Hawks are Grand Forks and Beale, IIRC. There are also Guard/Reserve units in various locations. Google works for you as well as it works for me, so I'll let you figure it out from here.

4. This is what you should probably give the most consideration. The USAF is more family friendly than the USMC, but this is a difference in degree, not in kind. On base housing is nicer, that's about it. You are a number on a spreadsheet somewhere and Big Blue gives exactly zero fucks about your family. The military is the military, and we're at war (or at least "at counterinsurgency"), so expect that shit to be your priority. You can expect to deploy. Reread the first five words of this post. Also, the LRE trends young for two reasons. First, as a brand new Lt in a flying squadron, you're at the front of the line for any task the Capts and Majs in your squadron would prefer not to do. Most of them have deployed already, so guess what you're going to do. Second, instructors are in short supply (ref that sentence about retention and morale), so they can't be spared for the LRE since so many noobs need training. Relocating is a wash. You can moved with next to no-notice in any community. Finally, I'll be blunt here: your wife doesn't seem like she'll be happy as a military wife. If she isn't happy, you probably won't be either. You know her better than anyone, so again, your call.

Also, Threeholer, Nunya and Matmacwc are giving you excellent advice.

[Snuggie]

2. Don't expect to leave for something where your seat moves. You could get a teaching slot at Randolph or a ALO tour, but the rest of your time will be spent flying the line. I will "2" guineapigfury. Just because you are "home" doesn't mean you are at home, even more so if your wife works. When I am on swings (1600-0000) I rarely see my spouse unless it is her or my weekend. Also mids sucks.

3. I believe every base but Creech has on base housing. I know of one person who doesn't commute the 30-45 minutes from Las Vegas by living in Indian Springs, but I wouldn't suggest it. So just plan on adding 1-1.5 hours to your day, every day.

4. It use to be that if you were at Creech you could expect to stay there for 4+ years. But now with bases opening all over the country you can expect a standard PCS cycle and move every 3-4 years. I've been at Creech for 3 years and have done two 120 day LR deployments. I would expect the deployments to extend to 6 months sometime in the future; to get in line with the rest of the AF. If you aren't stationed at Creech expect a 1.5 month TDY to train, which just adds to your time away from family.

Bottom line: If your goal is to contribute to the war from CONUS, and not deploy as much as some other AFSCs, then sign up. If your goal is to not PCS and find a back door way into a real jet, the UAVs is not the way to go.

[rcatchum]

Gentlemen, good answers all, thank you. This is exactly what I was looking for.

Just a quick note: If I do go the RPA route, I'm not looking to use it as a back door into real jets. If I'm going in, its as drone and I'm fine with that. What I meant by my comment in #2 was, is there any real risk of being made into a mechanic? An analyst (though that wouldn't be too bad). That sort of thing.

I'm surprised that the jet guys are deploying as little as they are, and that RPA are deploying as much as they are. Go figure, right?

Over all, you gentlemen are probably right. Maybe because of my family situation the military is no longer the right choice for me. That may have become my reality when I said "I do". If so, fine, I'll just have to accept that. I guess I'm just hoping to still find some way to serve our country. While I would prefer to do that in the military, I may need to start looking elsewhere.

Anyway, I've been given lots of food for thought, and I'm grateful for that. I still welcome any further comments ya'll may offer.

Thank you

[herkbum]

Talk to the Guard.

[HiFlyer]

Just a quick note: If I do go the RPA route, I'm not looking to use it as a back door into real jets. If I'm going in, its as drone and I'm fine with that. What I meant by my comment in #2 was, is there any real risk of being made into a mechanic? An analyst (though that wouldn't be too bad). That sort of thing.

I'm surprised that the jet guys are deploying as little as they are, and that RPA are deploying as much as they are. Go figure, right?

Specifically, not much chance of moving to another career field unless something happens like a medical DQ down the road. Not frequent, but it does happen. However, as one remains on the military there is a tendency to slowly move out of direct operations to management and weapons system support. For instance, you may become an 18X (career RPA pilot) and do a couple of tours flying and supervising RPA ops, but after about 6-8 years, you may start sliding into staff positions at the Major Command and/or HQ AF level, or even into system support jobs at an AF Material Command Center. They are still RPA oriented, but could be in future system development jobs or acquisition-related jobs. If you don't screw up, you may later trasition back to ops, but in a supervisory or command position.

As for the deployment issue, be careful about how you define the term. Most aviators interpret "deploy" as going overseas something like a 3 to 6 month tour to a forward location. However, many also go on shorter trips (10-15 days) or so, come home for a few weeks and go again, repeating frequently as part of a normal job...not a deployment, but sometimes adding to 150 or more days a year. The airlift community (C-5, C-17, C-130) does this frequently, as do other non-rated people who support forward operations (comm, CE, Special Ops, etc).

I also agree that you and your spouse need to talk about this. The military's job is to deter and, if necessary, fight/support the fight. If your spouse can't understand and adapt to that, you're both in for an uncomfortable life. You WILL be deploying, making temporary trips, moving every three years or so, perhaps taking a one-year remote (un-accompanied) tour, etc. because that's the job you're taking on.

Also, keep in mind that the way the AF operates now is largely driven by the wars in the middle east. Five (even three) years from now that won't necessarily be the case. Times change and the military reacts, and sometimes doesn't get a vote!!

Edited July 29, 2013 by HiFlyer

[Chaff]

Some RPA squadrons never deploy however you don't get much say in what sq you end up in.

Keep in mind the 18X career field is so new that there are few if any people who have made it past their first assignmet. There are a lot of unknowns in terms of career progression. The flying world standard of 2 ops tours then on to staff etc. may work but we don't know. Manning is still a big issue so it is hard to see them pulling people out of op units. Also no one knows for sure how war drawbacks will change us and if we will start to feel the budget cuts like other flying units.

The way leadership is talking right now 90% of dudes assignments will be Creech, FTU instructor at Holloman, back to Creech. Replace Creech with w/e other base. Again, no one really knows because no one has made it that far.

If you are stationed at Creech you can live on Nellis housing. However that will add 30 min onto your drive.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Chaff

[BTLFlyer]

Is IFS currently required for pilots with a PPL for the 18X pipeline?

[Chaff]

I have heard rumors that as a result of sequestration they would drop the requirement for guys with their PPL. Not sure where you would look to find the truth. I would start by asking someone at AFPC that you sent your rated board application into or pilot assignments.

[deaddebate]

Good info.

https://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=5344

December 13, 2013 

Q: [...] When you talk to people in the RPA community, there's a sense that once Afghanistan -- after the 2014 drawdown, there's not gonna be the need for RPA pilots and sensor operators, so fewer Airmen are going to be taken from manned platforms and moved to RPAs. And they may even curtail the 18X career field. I'm wondering if you could talk about whether there will be kind of a reduction in the RPA community following 2014.

GEN. WELSH: […] The RPA career field is gonna change because RPAs are gonna change. We're at the right flyer stage of RPAs right now, and over the next 50 years, it's gonna look dramatically different than it does today. But the United States Air Force is gonna be in the middle of that change. We're not walking away from remotely piloted aircraft. Nor are we at a point where we're gonna go to 100 percent of our air frames being remotely piloted. And so we will slowly evolve over time into the missions best suited for RPAs. [...] Eventually, this is gonna kind of explode on us nationally. And then it's gonna get really exciting.

SEC. FANNING: And there's no evidence from the combatant commanders that the demand for this is gonna decrease, even as we pull out of Afghanistan. Quite the opposite.