Jaded Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Isn't there some stipulation about writing a letter preventing you from getting separation pay (of like $75k)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 What would you do, Jaded? Your #1 Capt has his OPR close out in Feb '14. He's been the heat in your Sq. His Flt/CC (or shop chief) ranks him #1/15 in his block on the draft OPR, you're intending to make him #1/57 Capts. Then he swings by one day before the OPR closes out and says he's thinking of applying for VSP for personal reasons. What are you gonna do? Easy to say with your #1/xx. How about #5/10, who you want to retain and push, and now he says he might want to get out. #6/10 has proven to have a receptive attitude and wants to improve. Do you hold on to #5, who wants out, and kick out #6, who wants to stay? BTW fellas, unless my experience is well outside the norm, you're gonna end up writing your own RRFs. So if you apply for VSP and get denied, but you still really want out...just write the shittiest RRF you can, letter or no. Use all those "continue to challenge" or "one of my best" bullets from when you were an LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theat6bisasham Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 RFFs have only been written by the front office in my squadrons…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeloDude Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 So if you apply for VSP and get denied, but you still really want out...just write the shittiest RRF you can, letter or no. Use all those "continue to challenge" or "one of my best" bullets from when you were an LT. Maybe I'm being naive for thinking this...but this time I have a feeling that they won't pull the whole 'turned down for VSP but still subject to the RIF' deal. During the RIF a few years ago, there wasn't a published matrix showing AFSC's and year groups that were affected (at least I never saw one?). Though I'm sure AFPC will always screw up even their own processes, this time they have shown their cards with the matrix. Last time the VSP was 'open to anyone' and then we saw what happened that time, and this time they're telling fighter, helo, and RPA guys to not even bother because they're not affected. It will be even more obvious this time around if AFPC pulls their bait and switch bullshit...and I'll try to give Gen Welsh more credit than Swartz. I'm usually much more of a pesimist (more like a reaslist) but I'd be willing to bet that if you're turned down for VSP, you won't even be subject to the RIF. We'll find out here in a few months. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 RFFs have only been written by the front office in my squadrons…. To the extent that OPRs/EPRs are written in the front office, that is a reasonable expectation. Bendy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntentionallyLeftBlank Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) VSP results are potentially late summer, with separation at end of Sep 14. Attachment 10 para 3 of PSDM 13-130 says applicants approved for VSP will have a separation date NLT 29 Sept 14. Sounds like you can apply for VSP with a DOS before Sept if you are concerned with taxes. Edited January 4, 2014 by IntentionallyLeftBlank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homestar Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 RFFs have only been written by the front office in my squadrons…. True story: my RFF in 2011 was due just after my PRF so I thought "Sweet, I'll just copy/paste." The RFF form looked to be the same, but was actually one or two characters per line shorter than the PRF, causing a near complete re-write. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitzo Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Wow how many man hours would be saved if the PRF, RRF and 1206 forms allowed for the same length of bullets? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techsan Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 True story: my RFF in 2011 was due just after my PRF so I thought "Sweet, I'll just copy/paste." The RFF form looked to be the same, but was actually one or two characters per line shorter than the PRF, causing a near complete re-write.You are correct! I figured that out last year with the O-5 SERB. Those sons of bitches! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drachen Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 True story: my RFF in 2011 was due just after my PRF so I thought "Sweet, I'll just copy/paste." The RFF form looked to be the same, but was actually one or two characters per line shorter than the PRF, causing a near complete re-write. Amazing isn't it? You'd think that for as much as Big Blue preaches standardization, A1 would be smart enough figure out how the standardize the length of a bullet between it's own forms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panchbarnes Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I see what you are saying...but a vsp looks good if you don't think you would be selected for RIF. My understanding is the RIF is quality cuts based. While I don't think I am a superstar, if you have SOS, masters complete, and a series of good strats my guess is you could have a low shot of getting picked. And then if you bank on the RIF, miss it, and the Air Force subsequently over reacts and cuts too many people you could lose out on your only shot. Sorry I didn't get a chance to respond sooner, but addict and others kind of spelled it out for me. I was looking at the difference in VSP & RIF pay versus number of work months left to make up that difference (plus Tricare). I still need to calculate if it's more tax advantageous to take or sell back your leave. *So if you are not in a hurry to separate or have a job lined up* you can easily make up that difference in pay in a matter of a few months or less. There is no financial incentive at this point to volunteer given the uncertainty over the 2014 Force Management programs. It's a reward versus risk equation, and IMHO the risk outweighs the reward at this point. I do vaguely recall reading an article where Gen Welsh said if you applied for the VSP and was turned down, you'd still get the VSP amount even if you got RIFed later on. That might be enticing to some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzdude Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) Wow how many man hours would be saved if the PRF, RRF and 1206 forms allowed for the same length of bullets? How many man hours would be saved if we wrote these documents without the silly notion that there needs to be no write space? Or if we wrote them without the stupid bullet format? Edited January 4, 2014 by jazzdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cell Dweller Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I do vaguely recall reading an article where Gen Welsh said if you applied for the VSP and was turned down, you'd still get the VSP amount even if you got RIFed later on. That might be enticing to some people. It is in the official Force Mgmt guidance that RIF'd officers are eligible for Separation Pay, calculated the same way as VSP. That is part of the reasoning for having an FSB for officers with less than 6 years, and a VSP/RIF cycle for those over six. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van1 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) 3. According to the PSDM, VSP'd dudes don't get TAP but RIF'd dudes do, FWIW. Invol Sep guys will get TAMP. Everybody separating gets TAP, it's mandated by congress. Google the difference. 4. We know by now that the VSP payout will come out of your mil retirement if you end up earning one in the guard/reserve. Does the same hold true for the RIF payout? Yes See above. TAMP is Transitional Assistance Management Program. This gives you 180 days of Tricare following invol sep. TAP is Transition Assistance Program. This is a program that is mandated by congress for all military member separating or retiring from the military. This is where you learn to be a civilian and write resumes and do job interviews, etc. VSP is the same as Invol Sep Pay when it comes to a future military retirement. They both need to be paid back. Edited January 4, 2014 by Van1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineline Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 See above. TAMP is Transitional Assistance Management Program. This gives you 180 days of Tricare following invol sep. TAP is Transition Assistance Program. This is a program that is mandated by congress for all military member separating or retiring from the military. This is where you learn to be a civilian and write resumes and do job interviews, etc. Apparently it wasn't just me that didn't understand the difference... it was also the authors of the PSDM. From PSDM 13-130 attachment 10: "9. Officers approved for VSP are not authorized Transition Assistance Program (TAP) benefits." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmacwc Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Yeah.....whatever. I was told the same thing and I got 180 days of Tricare after VSP and the TAP program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Anyone gotten eyes on the PSDM 13-131, the FSB for those in the 3-6 year range? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeloDude Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Yeah.....whatever. I was told the same thing and I got 180 days of Tricare after VSP and the TAP program. Maybe since then they have 'fixed the glitch', so it'll just work itself out naturally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shut up 'n color Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Yeah.....whatever. I was told the same thing and I got 180 days of Tricare after VSP and the TAP program. Is this the same situation this go around? Having TRICARE could be a make or break decision. I'm pretty sure I can find a job in 180 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chida Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) If you "palace chase" or "front in conjunction with separation pay whether vol or invol", you get the 6 months Tricare bit. But even if you didn't it's OK because you can get Tricare Reserve Select for $200/mo for you and your fam. Difference with the "vol sep and not going to SELRES" scenario: no 6 months of Tricare (or so they say. What actually happens depends on the shoe clerk who puts the info into Deers). Edited January 5, 2014 by Chida Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamkiller43 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 If you palace chase or front in conjunction with separation pay whether vol or invol, you get the 6 months Tricare bit. Wait, you can vsp then palace chase? Explain.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Fist Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) See above. TAMP is Transitional Assistance Management Program. This gives you 180 days of Tricare following invol sep. You also get TAMP if you voluntarily separate, AND transition to a reserve or guard component. Edit: Chida beat me to it... Edited January 5, 2014 by El-Fist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chida Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I reckon it would be palace front in that scenario. Front is when you owe no more time to AD. Chase is when you're converting some time on your AD ADSC to an ARC ADSC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xaarman Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) Anyone gotten eyes on the PSDM 13-131, the FSB for those in the 3-6 year range?Here ya go!edit: removed because it was marked FOUO. If you missed it, PM me your .mil address. Edited January 5, 2014 by xaarman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Here ya go! Apparently you can't upload .docx files.... uploaded as .pdf instead. Thanks, and of course no fucking matrix on the MyPers website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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