FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

[BamaC-21]

Okay maybe this emailed copy of 13-130 I'm looking at is trash. I havent seen the released 14-08. Good point on the times too! Would be nice to know.

The copy of 13-130 that I just printed off of mypers has the 7th listed like you're talking about. It looks like a legitimate discrepancy.

Edited January 25, 2014 by BamaC-21

[SuperWSO]

Why do people keep saying that VSP payments are taxed at 40%? Is that true? Why is it so high?

I will be a seven year Capt when I take the VSP and the formula says $60k. I can't imagine only walking away with $36k...

I got sep pay as one of the passed over majors. USAF separated us at the end of November. At that point, I had 11 months of income plus sep pay which is about 1 year of income. That bumped my total for the year to twice what I would normally get. Uncle Sam took a large chunk back.

The real FU is that they will recoup the gross amount when I retire from the Guard. Just have to look at it as an interest free cash advance on retirement.

[FLY6584]

I got sep pay as one of the passed over majors. USAF separated us at the end of November. At that point, I had 11 months of income plus sep pay which is about 1 year of income. That bumped my total for the year to twice what I would normally get. Uncle Sam took a large chunk back.

The real FU is that they will recoup the gross amount when I retire from the Guard. Just have to look at it as an interest free cash advance on retirement.

I am currently deployed right now and can possibly ask to have my deployment to this tax free location extended. I wonder if I do that and keep my taxable income relatively low if that will help keep me out of the super high tax brackets?

Also could you save money on taxes being RIF'd versus VSP'd considering your VSP payment would be paid out the same year you were making senior Capt pay compared to the RIF being paid out in 2015 where you wouldn't be making that Senior Capt pay?

[pawnman]

I got sep pay as one of the passed over majors. USAF separated us at the end of November. At that point, I had 11 months of income plus sep pay which is about 1 year of income. That bumped my total for the year to twice what I would normally get. Uncle Sam took a large chunk back.

The real FU is that they will recoup the gross amount when I retire from the Guard. Just have to look at it as an interest free cash advance on retirement.

Well, not quite interest free. It's whatever your current tax rate is. Those are like mafia rates.

[PointBreak]

Core vs. duty AFSC is all determined by you personnel record, available through AMS and vMPF. Core AFSC is listed as CAFSC; duty is DAFSC, and Primary is PAFSC. If a young LT does not know how to get to AMS or vMPF, or otherwise not know how to access their own personnel record, then they better figure it out rapidly.

Would a Nav or non-rated officer selected on an active duty UPT board be re-cored as a student during training? If so, then the above stipulation would come into effect if they washed out and were returned to their original AFSC. I'm sure there are several such scenarios where officers permanently retraining to new AFSC, such as the missileers re-assigned to intel, cyber, or something else, would be affected by the clause mentioned by PointBreak. Best advice is don't washout from re-training, especially if it is non-rated training.

Thanks for the response. Even the MPF commander at my base had never heard the term 'core' AFSC, only control, duty and primary AFSC.

So my next question is does anyone think this core AFSC Clause also applies to 11Xs in UAVs? Trying to weed through this one...

[magnetfreezer]

Thanks for the response. Even the MPF commander at my base had never heard the term 'core' AFSC, only control, duty and primary AFSC.

So my next question is does anyone think this core AFSC Clause also applies to 11Xs in UAVs? Trying to weed through this one...

UAV squadron at my base... there are a number of 11M UAV pilots who are vulnerable to RIF being offered immediate recat to 18U so they will be protected - interesting choice.

[BB Stacker]

Thanks for the response. Even the MPF commander at my base had never heard the term 'core' AFSC, only control, duty and primary AFSC.

So my next question is does anyone think this core AFSC Clause also applies to 11Xs in UAVs? Trying to weed through this one...

CAFSC is Control AFSC, which is something officers don't have, that's an enlisted thing. You're going to be looking for "Core ID" on your SURF/in virtual (basically the same concept). Core ID is typically just two numbers and a letter...it doesn't have all the prefixes and suffixes that you see with PAFSC/DAFSC. Example with me, I'm a Core 21M. Even though my PAFSC/DAFSC are both currently 21A3, I will go up to the force shaping board as a 21M.

Regarding the question about RPAs, look at your SURF, it should list your Core ID (which I would assume would be 11U). I wouldn't think that clause would apply to 11X's in RPAs unless you're going to be transitioning out of/into the career field, since unless you are coming in or going out sometime this year you wouldn't be retraining anytime soon.

edit: Well that certainly is an interesting choice.

Edited January 26, 2014 by BB Stacker

[nrodgsxr]

UAV squadron at my base... there are a number of 11M UAV pilots who are vulnerable to RIF being offered immediate recat to 18U so they will be protected - interesting choice.

Interesting indeed but I don't see many of them taking up the offer. FAA just approved 6 RPA test sites for NAS integration. Shouldn't be hard to find a job on the outside with that particular skillset.

[Guest ThatGuy]

So for the 2005 year group meeting their promotion board this year how will that work with the RIF? Not sure of the timeline for involuntary separation but wouldn't it be possible for a 2005 grad to be selected for promotion but after being selected for the RIF. The wheels go in motion for the December board starting in June.

Edited January 26, 2014 by slick999

[Dupe]

So for the 2005 year group meeting their promotion board this year how will that work with the RIF? Not sure of the timeline for involuntary separation but wouldn't it be possibke for a 2005 grad to be selected for promotion but after being selected for RIF. The wheels go in motion for the December board starting in June.

For the '03 year group, RRFs were due a few months before PRFs. It worked out ok.

[HeloDude]

So for the 2005 year group meeting their promotion board this year how will that work with the RIF? Not sure of the timeline for involuntary separation but wouldn't it be possible for a 2005 grad to be selected for promotion but after being selected for the RIF. The wheels go in motion for the December board starting in June.

No, it's not possible. IIRC the 05' board meets in December...so those guys who got RIF'd will already know several months prior and therefore they won't meet the promotion board.

[Skitzo]

Considering how the intel field is getting gutted, a good call I guess. Strats for those who need them not who have earned them.

[Guest ThatGuy]

No, it's not possible. IIRC the 05' board meets in December...so those guys who got RIF'd will already know several months prior and therefore they won't meet the promotion board.

Doesn't the VSP window close in May? And the RIF is predicated on whether we receive enough volunteers? I assume the electronic submission of VSP packages will tell AFPC if they met their voluntary separation goal and whether or not a RIF must occur.

Edited January 26, 2014 by slick999

[Bergman]

Considering how the intel field is getting gutted, a good call I guess. Strats for those who need them not who have earned them.

Just read a very interesting article that talks about this...

"Top 10 ways to Ensure your Best People Will Quit"

https://www.ragan.com/Main/Articles/Top_10_ways_to_ensure_your_best_people_will_quit_47779.aspx

By my count, the USAF is guilty of at least 7 of these on a regular basis...

[MSCguy]

The PSDM got revised, but the mathematical explanation for the sep payment calculation is still wrong.

There's nothing in the PSDM that says different, so I'm going with the idea that the commissioning year group is what they're going to look at for medical. That will get very interesting, as we rarely use those year groups because the constructive service credit puts people who commissioned in the same year into several different YGs for promotion purposes. It's possible to come in as high as Lt Col in medical, so there will be some O5s and CGOs in the same commissioning year group being boarded against each other.

[Rusty Pipes]

Doesn't the VSP window close in May? And the RIF is predicated on whether we receive enough volunteers? I assume the electronic submission of VSP packages will tell AFPC if they met their voluntary separation goal and whether or not a RIF must occur.

I will bet a year's pay that AFPC will receive enough volunteers, it just won't be the right volunteers. They can't let all of the VSP/TERA eligibles who apply leave and I'm sure they will meet more than their quota.

I am still a bit confused when they say TERA isn't first come, first serve… yet they say they can close the program at any time. I know lots of folks who are eligible for TERA; most have said they are still deciding what to do while others applied the minute the application window opened. If they can only release 50 of 100 eligible in a year group (for easy math) and only 15 apply in the first week or two how can they not approve all 15 not knowing if they will get another 35? How is that not first come first serve? They can't RIF you after denying you TERA… sounds about as first come first serve as you can get. If it is anything like the last go around I'm guessing there won't be any shortage of people applying for VSP at Midnight on the 7th so first come first serve won't be an issue.

[AA]

Because I never knew what a RDTM Code was, I had to go find out what it was.

Your code is found on your SURF.

The code meanings themselves are found in AFI 11-412, Table 6.2.

Edited January 26, 2014 by AA

[olevelo]

+1 for a list of RDTM eligibles. As 12M TPS grad (so we have a separate RDTM from ops guys) I'm either highly vulnerable or maybe not at all. I assume we're supposed to get notified individually at some point if we're eligible?

[danvgalhb]

Why do people keep saying that VSP payments are taxed at 40%? Is that true? Why is it so high?

I will be a seven year Capt when I take the VSP and the formula says $60k. I can't imagine only walking away with $36k...

The townhall meeting slide I saw says that the "1 time payment" gets federally taxed at 25%. This is exclusive of whatever taxes the state will take so if you're from a state with no state income taxes, you'll "only" get hit by a 25% tax payment. However, combined with state taxes, I can see it be as high as 40% so my suggestion is to temporarily apply to be a TX or FL resident if you want to minimize the hit on the VSP.

[FLY6584]

The townhall meeting slide I saw says that the "1 time payment" gets federally taxed at 25%. This is exclusive of whatever taxes the state will take so if you're from a state with no state income taxes, you'll "only" get hit by a 25% tax payment. However, combined with state taxes, I can see it be as high as 40% so my suggestion is to temporarily apply to be a TX or FL resident if you want to minimize the hit on the VSP.

I'm already a FL resident so I will save on the state tax. So you're basically saying it doesn't matter how much you made in 2014 because you are going to be taxed at 25% on it no matter what?

[Fifty-six & Two]

I'm already a FL resident so I will save on the state tax. So you're basically saying it doesn't matter how much you made in 2014 because you are going to be taxed at 25% on it no matter what?

Yes.

Also, which one is it?

From PSDM 13-130 dated 24 Jan 14:

Access the vMPF via the AFPC Secure website. Select “Apply for Voluntary Separation”, and when prompted to “Select a Separation Provision”, select “SECAF Approved Early Separation Program”. Include “I am requesting to separate under the Voluntary Separation Pay (VSP) Program” in the remarks section.

From PSDM 14-08 dated 23 Jan 14:

Select “Apply for Voluntary Separation”, when asked to “Select a Separation Provision,” select “Miscellaneous” and include “FY14 Voluntary Separation Pay” in remarks section.

[Chida]

25% is federal income tax withheld. How much you get to eventually keep depends on your form 1040. Personally, and looking at my files, the year I received Separation pay:

14.8% overall federal income tax rate (16.8% if you include FICA)

$127k gross income

TX resident

June DOS

[FLY6584]

25% is federal income tax withheld. How much you get to eventually keep depends on your form 1040. Personally, and looking at my files, the year I received Separation pay:

14.8% overall federal income tax rate (16.8% if you include FICA)

$127k gross income

TX resident

June DOS

So you received a pretty substantial tax return then If you overpayed by 10.2% on your separation pay?

[Disregard]

If you're applying for VSP, it might be a good idea to max out the the traditional TSP vs the Roth TSP to help minimize potential income tax for 2014--quick way to lower taxable income by $17,500. Thoughts?

[nsplayr]

I'm guessing they treat VSP payments like they do when you get paid from TMO for doing a PPM.

When I filed for my voucher for the crap I hauled in our cars, they withheld 25% in fed taxes (FL resident so no state taxes). When I file my taxes for 2013, my tax rate won't be anywhere near that high so I'm expecting to see quite a bit of that money back in the next month or so.

Would expect the same deal with VSP...they can withhold at whatever rate they want, all that matters is what your actual taxes owed vs what you've paid throughout the year when you file.

Does that all check?