FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

[mu2captain]

It would be nice if we could count the VSP as a company contribution to your retirement plan (TSP) and be able to put ~$53K (the max) in there on a tax deferred basis.

You can only put in $17.5K as an individual but can go to ~$53K with company contributions.

Isn't the VSP considered a retirement payout?

It would be nice to take a nice chunk of $$$$ in a 401K to Delta/American/United (whoever calls first), whose retirement plan is a 15/16% company contribution to the 401K.

On another train of thought for those of us who will get VSP rejected...the Air Force should probably consider this as an option for the bonus (Fill up the TSP to the limit)...so when you get kicked out as a 16 yr O-4, you at least have something to show for when you show up at the airlines.

[tunes]

Yes.

Also, which one is it?

From PSDM 13-130 dated 24 Jan 14:

Access the vMPF via the AFPC Secure website. Select “Apply for Voluntary Separation”, and when prompted to “Select a Separation Provision”, select “SECAF Approved Early Separation Program”. Include “I am requesting to separate under the Voluntary Separation Pay (VSP) Program” in the remarks section.

From PSDM 14-08 dated 23 Jan 14:

Select “Apply for Voluntary Separation”, when asked to “Select a Separation Provision,” select “Miscellaneous” and include “FY14 Voluntary Separation Pay” in remarks section.

in for the answer to this

[ComingLeft]

Or the bullet right below it:

If an officer has an ADSC, the applicant will provide justification for a waiver. Additionally, the officer must complete and attach the Individual Ready Reserve (IRR)/Statement of Understanding at Atch 3 to the separation application in virtual MPF.

Provide justification?

Offers pilots ADSC waivers for VSP. Denies pilots VSP because of the ADSC waivers. This is shaping up to be 2011 all over again. I encourage anyone who gets RIF'd that wants to stay in to make a Freedom of Information Act Request. Denied? Have your Congressmen make the next one.

[albertschu]

Most staff officers will likely be safe.

Thank goodness.

[Chida]

$66438 was the Separation pay. I also sold leave and got $10519. On my final LES there was some portion of my current month's pay on there as well. The total Federal Income Tax withheld on the $83053 total entitlement for the month was $19617. Which basically paid my tax bill for the year on the eventual extra income (totaling $127k) I got after I left active duty. So I got something like $4300 refunded to me on the year's withholding.

[albertschu]

25% is federal income tax withheld. How much you get to eventually keep depends on your form 1040. Personally, and looking at my files, the year I received Separation pay:

14.8% overall federal income tax rate (16.8% if you include FICA)

$127k gross income

TX resident

June DOS

Not sure what you mean by "overall" tax rate. Marginal tax rate is what matters.

UAV squadron at my base... there are a number of 11M UAV pilots who are vulnerable to RIF being offered immediate recat to 18U so they will be protected - interesting choice.

If this isn't concrete evidence that the people driving this ship don't know what they are doing, I don't know what is.

[Chida]

overall tax rate=amount of tax paid/total income

[C-21.Pilot]

CENTCOM is thowing around an email that has a nice Excel calculator which will compute both your TERA and/or VSP offerings based on YOS, Rank, etc. It also figures in taxes, etc -- very user friendly. I don't know where it originated from.

Hopefully it's made it way around the AF. If you haven't seen it, shoot me a PM with your .mil address and I'll forward it over.

[Fifty-six & Two]

CENTCOM is thowing around an email that has a nice Excel calculator which will compute both your TERA and/or VSP offerings based on YOS, Rank, etc. It also figures in taxes, etc -- very user friendly. I don't know where it originated from.

Hopefully it's made it way around the AF. If you haven't seen it, shoot me a PM with your .mil address and I'll forward it over.

Not sure if it's the same one I've seen (version 1.3), but it had me making $100K more in VSP than the legit calculation.

[albertschu]

overall tax rate=amount of tax paid/total income

Irrelevant. *Marginal* tax rate is what you want.

[Chida]

Maybe that's what you want, but *I* only care about the total taken from me. Why would I care about the ins/outs of the accounting gimmicks? Just in case you don't know:

Marginal tax rate: Tax rate on the highest dollar you earned.

Highest dollar I earned that year, i.e. taxable income, was $107k. Tax rate on that was 25%. I don't know what you're going to do with that info, generically, because to me it's says nothing about what I actually paid in total tax.

[C-21.Pilot]

Not sure if it's the same one I've seen (version 1.3), but it had me making $100K more in VSP than the legit calculation.

Nope -- this one is version 1.4.

Don't know what changed. PM if you want it.

[Rusty Pipes]

Are you guys still being briefed that VSP/TERA are NOT "first come, first served"? We are still being told that, yet we get this quote...

“As programs are executed, volunteers will be used to the maximum extent possible to reach the necessary reductions. As overage targets are reached through volunteer programs, the corresponding AFSC will be removed from eligibility for non-voluntary programs. For instance, using this example, if the AF goal is to reduce 20 Officers in 32E, Civil Engineer Capt 2006 year group and 25 volunteer to separate through available programs, 20 Airmen will be approved for the voluntary program based on factors such as length of ADSC waivers, time in grade, time in service, etc. Once the target of 20 is reached in that AFSC or specific category, the remaining 5 would no longer be eligible and the specific grade, AFSC (and year group in the case of officers) would no longer meet an involuntary board. However, if the AF target is 20 and only 10 apply for voluntary programs, the remaining pool of eligibles will be looked at through the non-voluntary programs in order to reach the target of 20 reductions.”

Using the quote above, you don't get anymore first come, first served as that. I understand that if 50 people apply for VSP/TERA on the first day for 20 releasable positions they will pick from all 50 that apply, but I read this as your "on the fence" decision window is probably the first day you are eligible to apply.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Rusty Pipes

[Chida]

They probably mean that just because you applied first doesn't necessarily mean you will be approved. Your approval hinges on whether or not they want to release you. Assuming they agree with releasing you, then yes, it is first come, first served. If they don't agree with releasing you then it you won't be approved no matter when you raised your hand.

BLAB: If you want to get out, then apply at first opportunity to improve your chances. (And if you're worried about tax on your VSP, you're probably not sufficiently motivated to get out).

[Fifty-six & Two]

BLAB: If you want to get out, then apply at first opportunity to improve your chances. (And if you're worried about tax on your VSP, you're probably not sufficiently motivated to get out).

Or you could just volunteer for a last minute deployment in order to reduce your taxable income for the year. Win for the Air Force and a win for you!!!

[C-21.Pilot]

Or you could just volunteer for a last minute deployment in order to reduce your taxable income for the year. Win for the Air Force and a win for you!!!

Ef that...unless you choose a Tampa-stan.

[nsplayr]

Ef that...unless you choose a Tampa-stan.

That's not really gonna help reduce your taxable income...

[Rusty Pipes]

They probably mean that just because you applied first doesn't necessarily mean you will be approved. Your approval hinges on whether or not they want to release you. Assuming they agree with releasing you, then yes, it is first come, first served.

Agreed, but if they get 50 applications to fill 20 release positions on the first day then the 3 month window just became a 1 day window. We are still being briefed that we will have the full window to apply for the voluntary programs and they are leaving out the part about them closing the program as soon as they reach their goals. I'm assuming most can read between the lines and know the track record from the previous attempts at this sort of stuff, but I have heard lots of folks who seem to still be under the impression (based on what they are hearing in briefings) that they will have these full windows to apply which most certainly won't be the case if you are lucky enough to be eligible and have an AFSC that starts with the number 11.

[Potsy]

Any thoughts on whether or not similar programs will be around next year? I'd like to stick around just 1 more year, but I'm getting the feeling like I should get while the gettin's good.

[Guest ThatGuy]

Do you guys/gals feel as though it's actually within the realm of feasibility that for a year group consisting of 58 eligibles that 20 individuals will definitely apply to VSP? I know we have discussed a mass exodus to the airlines in the past possibly occurring. From my year group and AFSC I know one person who wants out badly. So 19 more to go....

[Guest ThatGuy]

Can someone shed some light on the RRF process? How does a CC write an RRF on like 50 individuals if not more? During the last RIF my CC at the time had to write a handful of RRFs. None of our folks got the boot. From the RRF I saw it was like a PRF pretty much. Copy and paste your strats with some slight modifications because the form is shorter so you can't copy and paste from OPR bullets.

[Dupe]

Any thoughts on whether or not similar programs will be around next year? I'd like to stick around just 1 more year, but I'm getting the feeling like I should get while the gettin's good.

If I were management, I'd do one absolutely bloody round of cuts and then get on with getting on. Rolling cuts over a 5 year period wastes time, resources, and puts too many people on edge.

....so we'll probably have a five-year cycle of cuts.

Can someone shed some light on the RRF process? How does a CC write an RRF on like 50 individuals if not more? During the last RIF my CC at the time had to write a handful of RRFs. None of our folks got the boot. From the RRF I saw it was like a PRF pretty much. Copy and paste your strats with some slight modifications because the form is shorter so you can't copy and paste from OPR bullets.

AHHH! Why is the form shorter/different? Please...somebody make it the same size and shape as a PRF so those in promotion years can just cut and paste. The only differences should be the title at the top, the form number at the bottom, and the statements "Definitely Retain, Retain, and Do Not Retain" vice "Definitely Promote, Promote, and Do Not Promote."

For the 2005 year group, there should only be one board to determine both O-4 selects and RIF-selects.

[Skitzo]

but then you can't brag about a 90% promotion opportunity to major!

[ComingLeft]

AHHH! Why is the form shorter/different? Please...somebody make it the same size and shape as a PRF so those in promotion years can just cut and paste. The only differences should be the title at the top, the form number at the bottom, and the statements "Definitely Retain, Retain, and Do Not Retain" vice "Definitely Promote, Promote, and Do Not Promote."

PSDM nugget from the RRF checklist: You can only get a retain or do not retain. They just took your best hope of retention/safety away from the CC, who arguably knows best. Hope you look good on paper!

And if you're worried about tax on your VSP, you're probably not sufficiently motivated to get out.

2

[Cell Dweller]

I wonder is there is going to be a not-so-secret "Retain" quota for CCs / SRs?