FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

[justajob]

I don't think you understand that the people developing these matrices lead as Lieutenants. We only fly. They got masters degrees when they were in tech school. We let upgrades and the ATO get in our way of doing that. They have my full trust to figure this out in an ACSC paper in a decade or so.

[Nasty2004]

Have you guys heard the AFSC matrix by eligible and overages is being pulled! If you are an 11M from the 2005 year group you do not have an 18% chance of being released. This is getting to be insane.

What are you saying? That the matrix is completely erroneous? Source?

[albertschu]

Maybe that's what you want, but *I* only care about the total taken from me. Why would I care about the ins/outs of the accounting gimmicks?

I suppose by "you" I meant "someone who wants useful information regarding financial decisions". It isn't a gimmick.

Highest dollar I earned that year, i.e. taxable income, was $107k. Tax rate on that was 25%. I don't know what you're going to do with that info, generically, because to me it's says nothing about what I actually paid in total tax.

If you know that your marginal tax rate in tax year 14 is 28% and your marginal tax rate in tax year 15 will be 25%, you quickly estimate the bite that tax will take just on the ISP/VSP payout, without having to put every other factor in your life into the equation.

[Whitman]

Serving Down Under: Australia offers military jobs to US troops facing separation

https://www.stripes.com/news/serving-down-under-australia-offers-military-jobs-to-us-troops-facing-separation-1.176622

Edited January 29, 2014 by Whitman

[discus]

Serving Down Under: Australia offers military jobs to US troops facing separation

https://www.stripes.com/news/serving-down-under-australia-offers-military-jobs-to-us-troops-facing-separation-1.176622

Some good flying down there, Whitman...

[Vertigo]

Some hot chicks down there too! That's where I met my wife.

[HeloDude]

Some hot chicks down there too! That's where I met my wife.

Pics or it didn't happen.

[Skitzo]

I had a bro check out the aussie option a few years back. They were really wanting helo and hornet drivers... go figure.

[Whitman]

Some good flying down there, Whitman...

And is there a well established RV-4 mafia out there? That and the proven "hot chick" presence are key. Any AFPC rep would certainly understand if this justification popped up on a VSP package right?

[nsplayr]

I had a bro check out the aussie option a few years back. They were really wanting helo and hornet drivers... go figure.

You're in luck man just in case you lose the AF Hunger Games...from the Aus article:

"Air Force: Focus on jet pilots, electronic engineers, surveillance and reconnaissance specialists."

You and your fam may need a bit of sunscreen down under though!

Edited January 29, 2014 by nsplayr

[discus]

And is there a well established RV-4 mafia out there? That and the proven "hot chick" presence are key. Any AFPC rep would certainly understand if this justification popped up on a VSP package right?

I have plenty of justification "Pop up" when I think about hot Australian chicks.

...And now back to the regularly scheduled gloom and doom of this thread.

[Whitman]

I have plenty of justification "Pop up" when I think about hot Australian chicks.

...And now back to the regularly scheduled gloom and doom of this thread.

Wow, you went there!

[tunes]

so, have we determined the verbiage of what to put for VSP apps? and misc or sec af approved program?

[lossofclocklossofdata]

So this means basically 2 rounds of this shit? I wonder if that 18 months starts from Dec when this crap began. If those who will be RIFed are separating Jan 2015, that means the second round should come late next year.

I still haven't seen anything definitive about whether or not guys in my situation are eligible. 11Ms that I know who cross trained to RPAs still have 11M as Core AFSC, and the other code on my surf is GJ, which is an 11M3K/C-17. Nobody has been able to say whether or not we are eligible for any of this, but the PSDM states that all O-3s from 04-08 (I think) will meet the RIF board. Now my squadron is gathering all pertinent info such as how soon every CGO completed SOS by correspondence, Master's, etc. I think I can see the writing on the wall that we will be eligible.

I'm in the exact same situation. Talked to RPA functional and base force management POC. Both confirmed the verbiage in the matrices that says "11x will be determined by RTDM code" so if like me your core is GJ or other variant of 11M core ID, you are eligible for VSP and RFF. Not for palace chase though. 11X is blocked for that program. Haven't seen anything that states whether or not vsp will have to be paid back if you subsequently get a guard/reserve position after separation. Anyone?

[tunes]

I'm in the exact same situation. Talked to RPA functional and base force management POC. Both confirmed the verbiage in the matrices that says "11x will be determined by RTDM code" so if like me your core is GJ or other variant of 11M core ID, you are eligible for VSP and RFF. Not for palace chase though. 11X is blocked for that program. Haven't seen anything that states whether or not vsp will have to be paid back if you subsequently get a guard/reserve position after separation. Anyone?

11x isnt blocked from palace chase.....only the expanded palace chase.

[lossofclocklossofdata]

True. That's what I was getting at since most if not all 05-08 yr group will have more than 2 yrs ADSC left which I don't think they are waiving for ongoing palace chase.

[Fifty-six & Two]

Haven't seen anything that states whether or not vsp will have to be paid back if you subsequently get a guard/reserve position after separation. Anyone?

Attachment 3 in PSDM 14-08 outlines the scenarios where you would have to pay it back.

[tunes]

True. That's what I was getting at since most if not all 05-08 yr group will have more than 2 yrs ADSC left which I don't think they are waiving for ongoing palace chase.

you can still palace chase at the 3:1 rate with a max of a 6 yr commitment to the guard/reserve.

[Warrior]

All true statements, but to be eligible for PC, you have to be 2/3 of the way through your "initial total ADSC" - I assume that means UPT ADSC.

Sample timeline:

Graduate May 2007

UPT start October 2007, graduate Nov 2008

In Nov 2014 they will still owe 4 years (not quite to 2/3rds yet).

And that's an aggressive timeline from commissioning to completing UPT right?

So I'm guessing that some 06 guys will be eligible for Palace Chase this year, some will not and most of the 07-08 crowd will not be.

[Guest ThatGuy]

During a RIF board they look at your records or just at your RRF? If you have received an Article 15, can you still be retained by your CC or can a board say "Hell No!" for retention? Essentially overturning the recommendation of your RRF.

Edited January 29, 2014 by slick999

[Bender]

During a RIF board they look at your records or at just your RRF? If you have received an Article 15, can you still be retained by your CC or can a board say "Hell No!" for retention? Essentially overturning the recommendation of your RRF.

The RRF is nothing more than an altered PRF. Just like the promotion board, there will be records and a OSB that accompany the RRF to the retention board. Unfortunately, if you have a UIF with anything in it, it will be visible to the board.

There is no real way to say for sure if a CC could say/do enough to prevent a UIF from driving the boards decision...If it's a LOR for not wearing your reflective belt, maybe...if it's an Article 15 for a DUI, likely not. If the approval authority saw fit to pull said document, effectively closing out the UIF, the likely decisions of the board members could reasonably be assured to be swayed in one's favor...but, that's not really much up to the person with the UIF (although, certainly couldn't hurt to plead one's case at this point...we all know reflective belts are stupid.)

Bendy

ETA: Also unclear to me, as I haven't read the RIF PDSM closely...as I really couldn't give less fucks right now...but, I remember ready posts on the absence of the actual DR, R, DNR altogether. This will remove much leverage from the SR and make the RRF little more than a glorified OPR (which is still useful I suppose), but it would now lack that one large discriminator (the DR) that opposes the UIF also in the folder.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Bender

[Guest ThatGuy]

The RRF is nothing more than an altered PRF. Just like the promotion board, there will be records and a OSB that accompany the RRF to the retention board. Unfortunately, if you have a UIF with anything in it, it will be visible to the board.

There is no real way to say for sure if a CC could say/do enough to prevent a UIF from driving the boards decision...If it's a LOR for not wearing your reflective belt, maybe...if it's an Article 15 for a DUI, likely not. If the approval authority saw fit to pull said document, effectively closing out the UIF, the likely decisions of the board members could reasonably be assured to be swayed in one's favor...but, that's not really much up to the person with the UIF (although, certainly couldn't hurt to plead one's case at this point...we all know reflective belts are stupid.)

Bendy

ETA: Also unclear to me, as I haven't read the RIF PDSM closely...as I really couldn't give less ######s right now...but, I remember ready posts on the absence of the actual DR, R, DNR altogether. This will remove much leverage from the SR and make the RRF little more than a glorified OPR (which is still useful I suppose), but it would now lack that one large discriminator (the DR) that opposes the UIF also in the folder.

I appreciate the explanation, thanks!

[tunes]

All true statements, but to be eligible for PC, you have to be 2/3 of the way through your "initial total ADSC" - I assume that means UPT ADSC.

Sample timeline:

Graduate May 2007

UPT start October 2007, graduate Nov 2008

In Nov 2014 they will still owe 4 years (not quite to 2/3rds yet).

And that's an aggressive timeline from commissioning to completing UPT right?

So I'm guessing that some 06 guys will be eligible for Palace Chase this year, some will not and most of the 07-08 crowd will not be.

No, it's your commissioning ADSC, i.e. ROTC, USAFA, OTS....

[Crewdog135]

Had the ACC CMSgt come talk this week. He basically confirmed that all the numbers voodoo was based on the weapons systems cuts AF has proposed. None of these cuts have been approved by congress. How much you want to bet a Senator/Rep from an area with contracts at stake decides they have heartburn with the plan? I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad.

[ComingLeft]

Had the ACC CMSgt come talk this week. He basically confirmed that all the numbers voodoo was based on the weapons systems cuts AF has proposed. None of these cuts have been approved by congress. How much you want to bet a Senator/Rep from an area with contracts at stake decides they have heartburn with the plan? I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad.

Let me get this straight:

The AF will meet the FY14 force levels mandated by Congress without these programs. The AF wants to downsize the force for a post OEF world. The AF has an unapproved aircraft and force plan that is driving internal decisions. Mission sets are not projected to go away.

Sounds like we are front running a problem that does not yet exist. What happens when Congress makes us keep the aircraft? They made us buy OSA aircraft we did not want. I can only imagine the shrieking when we cut aircraft people do want. I suspect Congress's retort will be, "You f'd it. You fix it." I am excited as anyone about VSP, but does someone have the audacity to cancel the VSP/RIF programs? This ill conceived Hindenburg-Titanic hybrid, slow motion train wreck is painful to watch.