FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

[tunes]

The way I understand it, it isn't first come first serve but it is. Say they are trying to cut 12 guys, if more than 12 apply in Feb then that career field/year group will no longer be eligible to apply in March.

From everything I've been told, this is a simple year group + AFSC + ADSC look....no records are brought into it at all.

[Fifty-six & Two]

  On 2/5/2014 at 9:51 AM, tunes said:

The way I understand it, it isn't first come first serve but it is. Say they are trying to cut 12 guys, if more than 12 apply in Feb then that career field/year group will no longer be eligible to apply in March.

From everything I've been told, this is a simple year group + AFSC + ADSC look....no records are brought into it at all.

If it is anything like TERA, it'll be year group + AFSC to determine eligibility and then the following:

1. No ADSC

2. ADSC/Bonus remaining (least to greatest)

3. Projected assignments

4. Commander's recommendation

This was directly from the DCO given last week but was for the TERA part. I would imagine it would be along the same lines for VSP, but who knows.

[jackstone104]

So, for VSP - the 'best possible' info we have right now for how to successfully submit a package is as follows:

Access the vMPF via the AFPC Secure website. Select “Apply for Voluntary Separation”, and when prompted to “Select a Separation Provision”, select “SECAF Approved Early Separation Program”.

Include “I am requesting to separate under the Voluntary Separation Pay (VSP) Program” in the remarks section. Possible also put in for extra coverage "FY14 VSP Program"

The absolute earliest to apply is at Midnight (0000) CST on 6 Feb.

The ONLY mandatory document to upload is the 3 Year IRR statement of understanding for VSP, if not TERA eligible likely PSDM 13-131, and if TERA eligible PSDM: 13-130?

Based on monthly batches it is basically first come first serve with the likely following caveats:

1. No ADSC

2. ADSC/Bonus remaining (least to greatest)

3. Projected assignments

4. Commander's recommendation

If you get rejected rapidly without an honest assessment, we think the best way to attack that is to call AFPC directly and ask to be reconsidered.

We don't exactly know how the board is comprised for VSP and we don't exactly have the mechanics of CC signature approval to the next step. Should/can we badger our CC to sign ASAP? Is the mandatory counseling documented somewhere or just put in somebody's name that you work for after you've spoken to them about it.

Final edit: it appears if not eligible for TERA, you still follow the procedures for VSP application instructions from 13-130 under the following -

4. VSP Application Instructions: Access the vMPF via the AFPC Secure website. Select

“Apply for Voluntary Separation”, and when prompted to “Select a Separation Provision”, select

“SECAF Approved Early Separation Program”. Include “I am requesting to separate under the

Voluntary Separation Pay (VSP) Program” in the remarks section. Refer to the PSD Guide for

application procedures and instructions at https://mypers.af.mil , then under “FSS Resources”

select “Program Guides” and then select “View PSD Guide Listing”, then “Separations”. The

Officer Voluntary Separation application instructions are listed in Section E of the PSD Guide.

But there is no specific guidance for non-TERA eligible VSP applicants, which makes it unclear if the same Separation Provision above applies, IE SECAF Approved Early Separation Program - clear as mud...

Edited February 5, 2014 by jackstone104

[BamaC-21]

  On 2/5/2014 at 11:08 AM, jackstone104 said:

So, for VSP - the 'best possible' info we have right now for how to successfully submit a package is as follows:

Access the vMPF via the AFPC Secure website. Select “Apply for Voluntary Separation”, and when prompted to “Select a Separation Provision”, select “SECAF Approved Early Separation Program”.

Include “I am requesting to separate under the Voluntary Separation Pay (VSP) Program” in the remarks section. Possible also put in for extra coverage "FY14 VSP Program"

The absolute earliest to apply is at Midnight (0000) CST on 6 Feb.

The ONLY mandatory document to upload is the 3 Year IRR statement of understanding for VSP, correct?

Based on monthly batches it is basically first come first serve with the likely following caveats:

1. No ADSC

2. ADSC/Bonus remaining (least to greatest)

3. Projected assignments

4. Commander's recommendation

If you get rejected rapidly without an honest assessment, we think the best way to attack that is to call AFPC directly and ask to be reconsidered.

We don't exactly know how the board is comprised for VSP and we don't exactly have the mechanics of CC signature approval to the next step. Should/can we badger our CC to sign ASAP? Is the mandatory counseling documented somewhere or just put in somebody's name that you work for after you've spoken to them about it.

I'm also including "I request a waiver of ADSC codes - 77/80/whatever's on my SURF" and attaching a personal justification MFR. Probably overkill.

[tunes]

there are also two different IRR agreements...I attached the one from 14-08

[jackstone104]

  On 2/5/2014 at 11:36 AM, tunes said:

there are also two different IRR agreements...I attached the one from 14-08

Is it not just the one in the Voluntary Separation Module drop down? It states "Voluntary Separation Pay Ready Reserve Agreement".

[Fifty-six & Two]

  On 2/5/2014 at 11:45 AM, jackstone104 said:

Is it not just the one in the Voluntary Separation Module drop down? It states "Voluntary Separation Pay Ready Reserve Agreement".

Nope, the ones in the PSDMs have the caveat about being TERA eligible.

[jackstone104]

What if you are not eligible for TERA (ToS 6 - 15 years)? Of the two which PSDM form's IRR would you recommend to submit?

Edit: NM Think I got it -

PSDM 13-131

The FY14 FSB will consider officers in the grade of first lieutenant and captain in the

2009, 2010, and 2011 accession year groups (as computed by Total Active Federal

Commissioned Service Date (TAFCSD) in specific AFSCs within the line of the Air Force.

Additionally, the board will consider lieutenant colonels and below in the competitive

categories, to include Biomedical Sciences Corps (BSC), Dental Corps (DC), Medical

Service Corps (MSC) and Nurse Corps (NC) unless specifically excluded below. Eligible

AFSCs are listed on the applicable matrix at the Force Management website;

(https://myPers.af.mil/app/answers/detail/a_id/25484.) then click on the “FY14 Force Shaping

Board” link.

The board will also consider LAF-J officers with a date of rank to captain of 1Jan

through 31 Dec 2009 (Bd ID L9914D), 1 Jan through 31 Dec 2010 (Bd ID L9914E), and 1 Jan

through 31 Dec 2011 (Bd ID L9914F). Specific eligibility criteria are listed at Attachment 1.

All board identification numbers are included in the table in paragraph 8 of Attachment 3.

PSDM: 13-130

The CY14 RIF board will consider all officers in the grade of

captain in year groups 2005 through 2008, and all majors in year groups 1997 through 1999 and

2001 through 2003 (as computed by Total Active Federal Commissioned Service Date

(TAFCSD) in specified Air Force Specialty Codes (AFSC) in the line of the Air Force.

Additionally, the board will consider captains and majors in the competitive categories of Biomedical Sciences Corps (BSC), Medical Service Corps (MSC), Nurse Corps (NC), Dental

Corp (DC), and Medical Corp (MC) in year groups 1997 through 2008 unless specifically

excluded below. Year groups vary for each competitive category. See the applicable matrix at

the Force Management page on myPers

The board will also consider LAF-J officers with a date of rank to major of 1 May 2010

to 31 March 2011 (Bd ID L0414G), 1 April 2011 through 31 May 2012 (Bd ID L0414H), and 1

June 2012 through 30 September 2013 (Bd ID L0414I). Eligibility criteria are at attachment 1.

Board identification numbers for all boards are included in the table in paragraph 8 of attachment

3.

Edited February 5, 2014 by jackstone104

[Rusty Pipes]

  On 2/5/2014 at 10:58 AM, Fifty-six & Two said:

If it is anything like TERA, it'll be year group + AFSC to determine eligibility and then the following:

1. No ADSC

2. ADSC/Bonus remaining (least to greatest)

3. Projected assignments

4. Commander's recommendation

This was directly from the DCO given last week but was for the TERA part. I would imagine it would be along the same lines for VSP, but who knows.

If it is anything like TERA, it'll be year group + AFSC to determine eligibility and then the following:

1. Once determined eligible they will change the rules

2. They take those determined eligible and determine if you are eligible;this will take 10 days depending on the eligibility of the eligible

3. The eligible that are determined they are eligible will tell their boss they are eligible... but only if they are eligible based on the new matrix of eligibility

4. Within 24 hours your boss will forward the e-mail from AFPC with your G-5 assignment to Aruba that has now been turned off

5. 3 weeks later Chang's 12 year old nephew will compare the list of applicants to the closing credits of the movie The Matrix and deny all of those not listed

6. Butters will say this proves there is no airline hiring boom coming

7. AFPC will announce a new $500K/10 year bonus for all TCN Escorts

8. Masters degree requirement will be masked on all promotion boards in favor of the new PhD requirement

9. FY 15 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA) thread started on Baseops.net by Rainman

Edited February 5, 2014 by Rusty Pipes

[Butters]

  On 2/5/2014 at 3:04 AM, nrodgsxr said:

which MWSs are you guys going back to? I was told that I had 0% chance of getting a C-17 requal slot because there are none to be had in the summer vml

Unless you are going to the C-17 as a CC or Do you have a 0% chance at Altus. However, you only need to go to Altus is you exceed 39 Months unqualified. He said guys asked to extend their staff tour and were denied. If their extension was denied, they most likely will not exceed 39 months and can do a local requal.

ADDED:

Before some smart ass makes a comment, I am talking about old and busted FGOs that have meet all their gates.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Butters

[Rusty Pipes]

  On 2/5/2014 at 1:05 PM, Butters said:

Unless you are going to the C-17 as a CC or Do you have a 0% chance at Altus. However, you only need to go to Altus is you exceed 39 Months unqualified. He said guys asked to extend their staff tour and were denied. If their extension was denied, they most likely will not exceed 39 months and can do a local requal.

ADDED:

Before some smart ass makes a comment, I am talking about old and busted FGOs that have meet all their gates.

What Butters said... but if there were such a huge glut of 11Ms and especially 11M FGOs then why would they need to cut Staff tours at 3 years to send us old and busted up FGOs back to Ops Sqs as gray beards to fly the line? I'm certainly not complaining, but it seems that we have been hearing that was just not going to happen. Calling Chang? Is Chang in the house??? He's been awfully quiet lately...

[C-21.Pilot]

  On 2/5/2014 at 12:30 PM, Rusty Pipes said:

If it is anything like TERA, it'll be year group + AFSC to determine eligibility and then the following:

1. Once determined eligible they will change the rules

2. They take those determined eligible and determine if you are eligible;this will take 10 days depending on the eligibility of the eligible

3. The eligible that are determined they are eligible will tell their boss they are eligible... but only if they are eligible based on the new matrix of eligibility

4. Within 24 hours your boss will forward the e-mail from AFPC with your G-5 assignment to Aruba that has now been turned off

5. 3 weeks later Chang's 12 year old nephew will compare the list of applicants to the closing credits of the movie The Matrix and deny all of those not listed

6. Butters will say this proves there is no airline hiring boom coming

7. AFPC will announce a new $500K/10 year bonus for all TCN Escorts

8. Masters degree requirement will be masked on all promotion boards in favor of the new PhD requirement

9. FY 15 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA) thread started on Baseops.net by Rainman

And that my friends sums up the entire last 2 months of BOPS.net forums.....plus some nice T & A pics.

[GMaster13]

PSDMs 14-08 and 13-130 both refer to the Separations Program Services Delivery Guide. Does anyone know what Step 5 of 10 of the guide (pg 44) is referring to?

"Step 5 of 10 - Select the "Yes" or "No" button concerning public property/funds. Enter the grade and name of the counselor in the box provided. Utilize the pop-up calendar and select the date counseled. The date counseled must be a previous date."

What counselor? Is there a prerequisite counseling to apply for VSP?

[Lumbergh]

  On 2/5/2014 at 8:56 PM, GMaster13 said:

PSDMs 14-08 and 13-130 both refer to the Separations Program Services Delivery Guide. Does anyone know what Step 5 of 10 of the guide (pg 44) is referring to?

"Step 5 of 10 - Select the "Yes" or "No" button concerning public property/funds. Enter the grade and name of the counselor in the box provided. Utilize the pop-up calendar and select the date counseled. The date counseled must be a previous date."

What counselor? Is there a prerequisite counseling to apply for VSP?

I think all they are asking is whether or not you've talked to your supervisor or CC about the decision you're about to make. I don't think it had to be an official counseling session, but at least,

"Hey boss, I'm about to show my cards and punch."

"OK"

It won't matter anyways. We're all getting denied and reclassified to UAVs.

  On 2/5/2014 at 11:45 AM, jackstone104 said:

Is it not just the one in the Voluntary Separation Module drop down? It states "Voluntary Separation Pay Ready Reserve Agreement".

  On 2/5/2014 at 11:55 AM, Fifty-six & Two said:

Nope, the ones in the PSDMs have the caveat about being TERA eligible.

The content of both IRR statements look exactly the same with the exception of the title. The one from PSDM 13-130 is titled "INDIVIDUAL READY RESERVE AGREEMENT/STATEMENT OF UNDERSTANDING" and from PSDM 14-08 "INDIVIDUAL READY RESERVE AGREEMENT/STATEMENT OF UNDERSTANDING FOR OFFICER VOLUNTARY SEPARATION PAY (VSP)"

Both include a sentence about TERA-eligibility at the end. I'm going to use all of the guidance from 13-130 because that's what my MPF rep said to do. I doubt which IRR statement you use will be a deciding factor because they're identical except for the titles. Considering how this process of confusion has transpired so far, I'm not overly confident the imbeciles at AFPC will make the distinction. Hope this helps.

[GMaster13]

  On 2/5/2014 at 10:18 PM, Lumbergh said:

It won't matter anyways. We're all getting denied and reclassified to UAVs.

Hope not. Been there already and don't want to go back. Thanks for the other info though. Good luck!

[BamaC-21]

All, not to throw a wrench in how we think this VSP application process is going to go, but I just got an email from AFPC concerning the separation provision.

Thank you for contacting the myPers - Total Force Service Center via the "E-mail Us" option.

Ref PSDM 14-08 dated 23 Jan 2014.

Select "Apply for Voluntary Separation", when asked to "Select a Separation Provision," select "Miscellaneous" and include "FY14 Voluntary Separation Pay" in remarks section.

Officers can apply for VSP on 0001, 6 Feb 2014, Central Standard Time.

My question was which PSDM to use (I attached verbiage from both) and when does the window open. The email isn't signed, and it's after COB. Cool.

Edited February 6, 2014 by BamaC-21

[FLY6584]

Two new PSDM's out. Everything has changed in the final hours. No longer can you retain your 9/11 GI Bill Benefits if you transfered them to a family member and have not completed the 4 year commitment nor are any UPT ADSC's being waived. WTF!!!!!!!!! Why post numbers for 11's in year groups that have obviously not completed their UPT ADSC and say they are eligible to apply for VSP, but then say they won't waive their UPT ADSC. Standard AFPC crap!

[BamaC-21]

  On 2/6/2014 at 1:59 AM, FLY6584 said:

Two new PSDM's out. Everything has changed in the final hours. No longer can you retain your 9/11 GI Bill Benefits if you transfered them to a family member and have not completed the 4 year commitment nor are any UPT ADSC's being waived. WTF!!!!!!!!! Why post numbers for 11's in year groups that have obviously not completed their UPT ADSC and say they are eligible to apply for VSP, but then say they won't waive their UPT ADSC. Standard AFPC crap!

Do you mind posting them?

[zmoney]

I'm not sure about the GI Bill part, but the UPT ADSC part seems inaccurate.

AFPC posted revised versions of PSDM 14-08 and 13-65. 13-65 contains the list of ADSCs AFPC is willing to waive. On that list you will find "Technical Training" and that they're willing to waive the "Full" amount. I suppose it might be up to interpretation what "Technical Training" means, but I think it probably includes UPT

Disclaimer: I do not work for AFPC, but it seems like they WILL waive your UPT commitment. Read the updated PSDMs for yourself.

Edit: I was wrong. See 13-65 p 10, note 4.

Edited February 6, 2014 by zmoney

[ThreeHoler]

Better link: https://gum-crm.csd.disa.mil/app/answers/detail/a_id/26962

Edited February 6, 2014 by ThreeHoler

[FLY6584]

  On 2/6/2014 at 2:00 AM, BamaC-21 said:

Do you mind posting them?

There is an updated 14-08 dated 4 Feb 14 and an updated 13-65 dated 5 Feb 14. They both contradict each other. One says you will not lose GI Bill Benefits and the other says you will.

I just got off the phone with the Total Force Service Center and they said AFPC will not be waiving any UPT ADSC's.

[FUSEPLUG]

This shit is way more exciting than that football "game" last weekend!

[FLY6584]

I cannot believe it. I just had a Total Force Service Center person tell me that they never planned on waiving any UPT ADSC's and that it was my fault I didn't read enough of the regs to know that they wouldn't be and that the Guard and Reserve jobs I have applied for and the meetings with my Commander about putting in for the VSP were for nothing.

She said I am most certainly eligible for the RIF based on my year group, but because I have a UPT ADSC I am not eligible to apply for the VSP and apparently all of these senior leaders talking about how we need to offer VSP to year groups before we RIF them is total bull shit.

Why release a matrix that shows 2007 11R's are over by 26 out of 77 eligible and say on that matrix that you are eligible to apply for the VSP, but then in the final hours after you have toasted your AD career and jerked Guard and Reserve Units around say just kidding... we're not waiving any UPT ADSC's, but that matrix is still valid. Explain to me how the you can be a 2007 year group pilot that has completed their ADSC as of this time?! What a story!

[xaarman]

Wait, they promised that you would not be denied VSP if you were eligible for the RIF, but now they are saying you won't be approved for VSP if you have a UPT ADSC but will still be subject to the RIF?

Am I reading that right?

[hookem69]

Can anyone confirm or explain how you can apply for VSP if you already have a DOS in the system. I remember reading that as long as your DOS was after Jan 2015 (I think) and were eligible, you could apply for VSP. I looked at vMPF tonight and there wasn't an option to select Voluntary Separation. I was only able to view my application to separate that was already in the system.

I know I'm already getting out, but want to get off this sinking ship sooner if at all possible!!