FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

[FLY6584]

Do you mind posting them?

There is an updated 14-08 dated 4 Feb 14 and an updated 13-65 dated 5 Feb 14. They both contradict each other. One says you will not lose GI Bill Benefits and the other says you will.

I just got off the phone with the Total Force Service Center and they said AFPC will not be waiving any UPT ADSC's.

[FUSEPLUG]

This shit is way more exciting than that football "game" last weekend!

[FLY6584]

I cannot believe it. I just had a Total Force Service Center person tell me that they never planned on waiving any UPT ADSC's and that it was my fault I didn't read enough of the regs to know that they wouldn't be and that the Guard and Reserve jobs I have applied for and the meetings with my Commander about putting in for the VSP were for nothing.

She said I am most certainly eligible for the RIF based on my year group, but because I have a UPT ADSC I am not eligible to apply for the VSP and apparently all of these senior leaders talking about how we need to offer VSP to year groups before we RIF them is total bull shit.

Why release a matrix that shows 2007 11R's are over by 26 out of 77 eligible and say on that matrix that you are eligible to apply for the VSP, but then in the final hours after you have toasted your AD career and jerked Guard and Reserve Units around say just kidding... we're not waiving any UPT ADSC's, but that matrix is still valid. Explain to me how the you can be a 2007 year group pilot that has completed their ADSC as of this time?! What a story!

[xaarman]

Wait, they promised that you would not be denied VSP if you were eligible for the RIF, but now they are saying you won't be approved for VSP if you have a UPT ADSC but will still be subject to the RIF?

Am I reading that right?

[hookem69]

Can anyone confirm or explain how you can apply for VSP if you already have a DOS in the system. I remember reading that as long as your DOS was after Jan 2015 (I think) and were eligible, you could apply for VSP. I looked at vMPF tonight and there wasn't an option to select Voluntary Separation. I was only able to view my application to separate that was already in the system.

I know I'm already getting out, but want to get off this sinking ship sooner if at all possible!!

[audioflyer]

From the new 13-65:

"ADSCs for Developmental Education... Undergraduate Pilot Training, and Advanced Pilot Training are not being waived." (note 4 on page 10)

We should have known it was too good to be true.

[ThreeHoler]

Can anyone confirm or explain how you can apply for VSP if you already have a DOS in the system. I remember reading that as long as your DOS was after Jan 2015 (I think) and were eligible, you could apply for VSP. I looked at vMPF tonight and there wasn't an option to select Voluntary Separation. I was only able to view my application to separate that was already in the system.

I know I'm already getting out, but want to get off this sinking ship sooner if at all possible!!

Officers meeting one or more of the conditions below are ineligible to apply:

Officer with an approved Date of Separation (record status 20) or pending separation or retirement application as of release of this PSDM. If the pending separation or retirement application is disapproved, officer may become eligible.

[FLY6584]

Wait, they promised that you would not be denied VSP if you were eligible for the RIF, but now they are saying you won't be approved for VSP if you have a UPT ADSC but will still be subject to the RIF?

Am I reading that right?

You are absolutely reading that right. 14-08 is the guidance to use for the VSP and how to go about applying for the VSP, but the new 14-08 refers to a table in the new 13-65 to reference to see if you can waive an ADSC you have. In that table it says no UPT ADSC's will be waived and the "nice" lady at the Total Force Service Center confirmed that. She was told by the separations people today that UPT ADSC's will not be waived. Seriously is this the ing twilight zone?! How could they be repeating 2011 when the Chief of Staff specifically said we cannot do that again. They even went as far as to actually release numbers in year groups and say you were eligible if you fell in that year group. I can't say I am that surprised.

[zmoney]

From the new 13-65:

"ADSCs for Developmental Education... Undergraduate Pilot Training, and Advanced Pilot Training are not being waived." (note 4 on page 10)

We should have known it was too good to be true.

I stand corrected, I missed that note. A1/AFPC misled all the rated eligibiles.

[FLY6584]

The AFPC website clearly spells out the following...

"To be clear, if you are eligible for an involuntary program, then you are eligible for a voluntary program. However, you may be eligible for a voluntary program, but not eligible for an involuntary program."

And then they advertise that we are eligible for the VSP because we are eligible for the RIF, but then refuse to waive ADSC's. I'm sorry. I'll stop typing now. I just can't believe an organization like this can be so corrupt, mismanaged, and immoral.

I'm filing my IG complaint tomorrow.

[Skitzo]

It will all come out in the wash... "well since you were ineligible for the VSP per the updated guidance and subsequently RIFed we owe you the difference. Oh wait, your salary from Sep-Jan is more than the difference of VSP and involuntary separation pay, so actually you owe us money"....

And thus the number of people who applied for VSP (and were considered eligible) and RIFed... will be next to none, and then they get to keep their promises?

What a train wreck...

Edited February 6, 2014 by Skitzo

[Dubs]

From the new 13-65:

"ADSCs for Developmental Education... Undergraduate Pilot Training, and Advanced Pilot Training are not being waived." (note 4 on page 10)

We should have known it was too good to be true

Reading through that section of the PSDM, I didn't see a UNT/UCSOT (whatever the hell the CSO training is) caveat... so does that mean 12X's that were on the eligibility matrix still have a chance?

[audioflyer]

Just to confirm, that note 4 was on 13-65 before? I wasn't even aware "Limited ADSC waivers" applied to the VSP program, since it was never mentioned in either 13-130 or 14-08 (until now).

[FLY6584]

Just to confirm, that note 4 was on 13-65 before? I wasn't even aware "Limited ADSC waivers" applied to the VSP program, since it was never mentioned in either 13-130 or 14-08 (until now).

It actually doesn't apply to VSP. The lady at the Total Force Service Center said that the comment under the LADSC Waiver program about losing your 9/11 GI Bill transferability benefits only applies to LADSC waivers and not to VSP applications. BUT then she went on to say that the UPT comment under the LADSC does apply to the VSP program because 14-08 says specifically to reference that table in 13-65. How has it been almost 2 months since all of these started and they can't seem to release any guidance that makes any ing sense.

[Guest]

It's gonna be an interesting couple of days. Grab some popcorn and watch the show.

Edited February 6, 2014 by deaddebate

[BamaC-21]

From the A1 desk:

We continue to experience higher than expected call volumes.....

Man, if this wasn't my life, it'd be hilarious.

Edited February 6, 2014 by BamaC-21

[tunes]

From the new 13-65:

"ADSCs for Developmental Education... Undergraduate Pilot Training, and Advanced Pilot Training are not being waived." (note 4 on page 10)

We should have known it was too good to be true.

That is under the LADSC program, not VSP....

[FLY6584]

That is under the LADSC program, not VSP....

You are correct, but 14-08 says the following:

"See PSDM 13-65, FY14 Officer Voluntary Force Management Programs for the list of current waiverable ADSC's."

[ThreeHoler]

I know a Sq/CC who just called the Commander's hotline...they told him that UPT ADSCs are not waiverable for VSP, but there was no penalty for applying and getting denied.

[Skitzo]

I know a Sq/CC who just called the Commander's hotline...they told him that UPT ADSCs are not waiverable for VSP, but there was no penalty for applying and getting denied.

Wow... the SQ/CC you know is someone worth working for....

[FLY6584]

I know a Sq/CC who just called the Commander's hotline...they told him that UPT ADSCs are not waiverable for VSP, but there was no penalty for applying and getting denied.

So basically everyone that is eligible for the RIF should apply for VSP so that when you are RIF'd we can file another class action lawsuit against the Air Force for the same thing it did back in 2011.

[FLY6584]

I know a Sq/CC who just called the Commander's hotline...they told him that UPT ADSCs are not waiverable for VSP, but there was no penalty for applying and getting denied.

Make sure you ask that SQ/CC why his staff is required to write a ton of RRF's for guys that are no longer eligible for the VSP so theoretically should not be eligible for the RIF either.

[MooseDriver1]

I am at a complete loss for words. Just when I think there is no way that this shit can get any more f'ed up. I've been turned down for Palace Chase twice already, my cards have long been laid out on the table. Have 1 yr left of UPT ADSC and I'm just hitting submit anyway. Worst they can do is say no.

[pawnman]

There is an updated 14-08 dated 4 Feb 14 and an updated 13-65 dated 5 Feb 14. They both contradict each other. One says you will not lose GI Bill Benefits and the other says you will.

I just got off the phone with the Total Force Service Center and they said AFPC will not be waiving any UPT ADSC's.

So all those 11X and 12X eligibles WON'T be RIFed, since we were told that we wouldn't RIF anyone who wasn't eligible for a voluntary program?

[FLY6584]

So all those 11X and 12X eligibles WON'T be RIFed, since we were told that we wouldn't RIF anyone who wasn't eligible for a voluntary program?

In theory yes. And as I mentioned before all of these RRF's that we are required to write are a total waste of time and unnessecary.