FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

[chim richalds]

PC is good if they force you to go that route, all things being equal, you'd be dumb not to take the vsp money

[tunes]

anyone get the member is in excess box checked yes on their vsp app?

[Whitman]

PC is good if they force you to go that route, all things being equal, you'd be dumb not to take the vsp money

My year group/AFSC is only over by 8. Trying to determine if more would be allowed through PC.

[BamaC-21]

Anyone applying for the Palace Chase program? Is it running parallel with VSP? I'm curious if they will only be releasing the estimated overage per the matrix for the all the programs (PC, VSP, RIF) combined. Seems like a good deal with 1/1 payback.

I was looking at applying for PC if they haven't notified us of VSP results by mid-March or so, but it looks like you apply using the same application process on vMPF. When I click on Separations, it takes me to my existing VSP application with no option to apply using another program. Hopefully, the timing will work out and we'll have results in the next few weeks.

[tunes]

if PC was an option while deployed I would have done that instead of VSP.

[WolfPack0708]

Longtime lurker, first time poster here. In the interests of disclosure: I am not rated. I found this board by accident in 2011, when I was trying to find any kind of intelligent discussion on the force management programs that year. This year is the first year I ended up being eligible for VSP, so I came back and have been happy to find that the discussion has kept up. I appreciate you all for your comments, I learn more from reading this board than my command, the A1 community and my functional combined. It's sad that this is where my information has to come from, but thank you nonetheless.

Given all that I have learned from you all, I wanted to share some tidbits that I have come across. Take them for what they're worth. This week in our staff meeting, our FSS/CC said that officer VSP packages will not be reviewed for at least two weeks. Apparently the Chief heard you all. The VSP packages are being held up while a package routes through A1 to look at waiving ADSCs for UPT. Finally someone realized that it isn't fair to have a blanket denial for VSP and then subject folks to the RIF. That's not saying that UPT ADSC's will be waived, but it is being looked at by the Air Staff.

Second, our functional works pretty closely with A1. He said that the initial overage matrix put out by AFPC aren't necessarily a lie, but in all probability they won't be the final number of cuts. Apparently A1 puts a worst case scenario for cuts out there at the beginning, knowing that isn't what's going to happen. In theory this is so that everyone is on notice that the cuts could be bad. It isn't lost on them that one of the effects of this is that people freak out about how bad the cuts will be and get out voluntarily. Expect the number of "overages" to drop.

Like I said, take these for what they're worth. Thank you all for putting this discussion out there.

[Butters]

Longtime lurker, first time poster here. In the interests of disclosure: I am not rated. I found this board by accident in 2011, when I was trying to find any kind of intelligent discussion on the force management programs that year.

Then how the hell did you find this board?

[Fifty-six & Two]

anyone get the member is in excess box checked yes on their vsp app?

I doubt there are very many wing kings who will check "yes".

Edited February 14, 2014 by Fifty-six & Two

[tunes]

I doubt there are very many wing kings who will check "yes".

It's only on the Sq/CC section....so far 1 guy I know has, same base different squadron...haven't been able to find anyone else in that squadron to see if its a blanket thing the CC was doing or if it was just for him.

Edited February 14, 2014 by tunes

[Fifty-six & Two]

It's only on the Sq/CC section....so far 1 guy I know has, same base different squadron...haven't been able to find anyone else in that squadron to see if its a blanket thing the CC was doing or if it was just for him.

Technically it is under the Unit Commander section which may or may not be a squadron commander. Either way, it surprises me that it isn't under the Wing Commander section.

[pawnman]

I doubt there are very many wing kings who will check "yes".

Baffles me that so many wing commanders don't want to allow their people to use a program created by the AF to solve an AF manning problem.

[Cyril Figgus]

I doubt there are very many wing kings who will check "yes".

I applied and my SQ/CC checked "yes" to the excess to the mission question... I think the SQ/CC approval is only to show that (1) you're not ineligible because you're under investigation or in trouble, and (2) the mission won't grind to a screeching halt if you leave suddenly (i.e. at least one other person can fly the plane). My wing CC just said he supported my request (he just has a text box to type in). The SQ/CC has been very supportive so far. Status is waiting at BPO.

FWIW, the rumint I've heard is that UPT ADSC waivers must be approved by the SECAF, and AFPC hasn't submitted a set of VSP applications to her for approval yet. But it is expected that she's on board with the "master plan" (if there is such a thing) and when it comes time in a few weeks, she'll sign off on waiving UPT ADSCs to fix the overages and not RIF people without giving them a voluntary option first.

[Shut up 'n color]

Just returned from deployment and trying to get the most up to date rumors. What's the latest info about when people think results for VSP apps come out? I have seen a number of official comments saying this is NOT first come first served. Which means to me that I can apply in April and have the same chance as some one who applies in Feb... am I wrong? If I'm correct that means people will be waiting until summer to find out all at once when the window closes.

[tunes]

Based on your post, I'm guessing you haven't read a post in this thread........

AFPC said they will process in monthly batches per the PSDM

[chim richalds]

It was said here a while back, but the issue I think will always be that the people who want to get out are not the ones the af wants to lose, and the ones who want to stay are largely parasitic on the system.

[lossofclocklossofdata]

Still "referred to active duty Squadron....." If the enlisted applications are any indication mine will sit with Sq/CC until the quota is met or 1 May, whichever comes first. Maybe AFPC should have provided more guidance than "commanders will not delay applications." Might as well have given them the answer on how to play the system. For what it's worth if anyone is in a similar fix, MPS said CMS cases should get highlighted to the Wg/CC if they are inactive for more than 5 days. That's only if they involve pay though. Not sure how to get these labeled the same way.

Edited February 14, 2014 by lossofclocklossofdata

[tunes]

sounds like your cc is one of the bad apples....sorry man

[stract]

Still "referred to active duty Squadron....." If the enlisted applications are any indication mine will sit with Sq/CC until the quota is met or 1 May, whichever comes first. Maybe AFPC should have provided more guidance than "commanders will not delay applications." Might as well have given them the answer on how to play the system. For what it's worth if anyone is in a similar fix, MPS said CMS cases should get highlighted to the Wg/CC if they are inactive for more than 5 days. That's only if they involve pay though. Not sure how to get these labeled the same way.

have you met with him to ask the status of your application? Make him tell you to your face that he's slow-rolling it, or conversely you calling him out may actually get him to act in a timely manner.

[Azimuth]

Wing King here today told us that he approved the 20 VSP's on the C-17 side and the 6 on the KC-135 side, however he said he added a statement in the application stating how many pilots he could afford to lose before it started to impact FTU production, and then how many pilots per year he couldn't produce above that number if they approved more VSP's.

But he was very fair, up front, and very respectable as a leader. Which seems to be rare these days.

[FBomb]

Given all that I have learned from you all, I wanted to share some tidbits that I have come across. Take them for what they're worth. This week in our staff meeting, our FSS/CC said that officer VSP packages will not be reviewed for at least two weeks. Apparently the Chief heard you all. The VSP packages are being held up while a package routes through A1 to look at waiving ADSCs for UPT. Finally someone realized that it isn't fair to have a blanket denial for VSP and then subject folks to the RIF. That's not saying that UPT ADSC's will be waived, but it is being looked at by the Air Staff.

I hope the Chief is getting involved, but quite frankly, at this point even if he corrects things his credibility is out the window. Last December he and his "director of force management policy" made it clear that money, not ADSC commitments, would be the driving factor for how many folks would be let go voluntarily.

From the Air Force Times article linked below:

' “We’d love to get all this done by voluntary force shaping measures over a period of time. If we have the leeway based on budget decisions to do that, we’ll go that route,” Welsh said Dec. 13. '

' “This has pretty much every tool in our toolkit at our disposal, both voluntary and involuntary,” said Brig. Gen. Gina Grosso, director of force management policy, in an interview. “Our strategy is to use the max use of voluntary programs that we can. Everywhere where we’ve been able to incentivize people to leave monetarily, we’re going to.” '

https://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20131216/CAREERS/312160016/Leaders-push-voluntary-exits-trim-force

The fact now is he's only involved because the officer corps has called BS on his public comments.

[maber101]

Our squadron commander told the VSP applicants in the squad today that the AMC A3 is not currently waiving UPT ADSCs, and expect to get our applications turned down once they get to AFPC. He added that it could change in the future, but as of right now we are going to be denied. Pretty sweet.

Did anyone get similar words from their chain?

[rbigred300]

My wing cc mentioned the same thing today...unless they change something they will all get denied

[Guest]

Wing King here today told us that he approved the 20 VSP's on the C-17 side and the 6 on the KC-135 side, however he said he added a statement in the application stating how many pilots he could afford to lose before it started to impact FTU production, and then how many pilots per year he couldn't produce above that number if they approved more VSP's.

But he was very fair, up front, and very respectable as a leader. Which seems to be rare these days.

Wing King here today told us that he approved the 20 VSP's on the C-17 side and the 6 on the KC-135 side, however he said he added a statement in the application stating how many pilots he could afford to lose before it started to impact FTU production, and then how many pilots per year he couldn't produce above that number if they approved more VSP's.

But he was very fair, up front, and very respectable as a leader. Which seems to be rare these days.

Unless I'm missing something here, Altus is the only wing with 135s and 17s. I would think that losing 20 IPs at once would be beyond crippling.

[HU&W]

Our squadron commander told the VSP applicants in the squad today that the AMC A3 is not currently waiving UPT ADSCs, and expect to get our applications turned down once they get to AFPC. He added that it could change in the future, but as of right now we are going to be denied. Pretty sweet.

Did anyone get similar words from their chain?

And where is this individual in your chain of command?

[Butters]

Unless I'm missing something here, Altus is the only wing with 135s and 17s. I would think that losing 20 IPs at once would be beyond crippling.

Yes, you are missing something. The fact that this happened before and it was not crippling. They just refilled the pool with non-vols.... problem solved.