FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

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[chim richalds]

Stick, you got screwed, but they probably would have found another reason to deny anyways. Did you tell them that you have to pick a program from the mother ing dropdown menu???? Get me the hell out of this piece of garbage organization.

[MooseAg03]

Everyone who has had to submit the new IRR statement of understanding did it then reset the routing and your app now shows "Referred to Squadron Commander"?

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[stick]

The PSDM said to put "FY14 Voluntary Separation Pay Program" as the justification. That was exactly what I did, not one word more.

What a fantastic process.

F*** it. I'm not RIF eligible, so the AF can just pay me for another year while I push my GMAT score up. I might answer an email every now and then.

[Lumbergh]

Everyone who has had to submit the new IRR statement of understanding did it then reset the routing and your app now shows "Referred to Squadron Commander"?

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I had to add mine when my app was at the Wing CC. Someone on his staff emailed me and said I needed to fill out the new IRR statement because the first one had dropped when the app got to him. My app is currently at "AFPC OFF Voluntary Separation Pay". I expect to get denied like everyone else. I used the guidance out of the now rescinded 13-130 and chose the provision "SECAF Approved Early Separation Program" and put "I am requesting to separate under the Voluntary Separation Pay (VSP) Program", no FY14, in the justification section. I tried to change it at last moment to the FY 14 comment, but the website kept crashing, so I just worried about hitting submit and after the 40+ times it finally went through. I doubt the small change in the justification section will matter. AFPC shouldn't have released new guidance at the 11th hour (literally). Either way, I expect to be denied sometime next week.

[chizz]

So are you saying the chances are better to PC under the 2-1 versus the newly established 1-1 program? The ISR said if I get denied one I can immediately apply for the other one the next day. So wondering which one I go with first, looking to try and convert my remaining 15 months,for some reason 12 months is such a magical number with AFPC, my position is going away so I dont know why they would want to delay an inevitable process, I am giving them a solution to their problem a year in advance

Everyone who has had to submit the new IRR statement of understanding did it then reset the routing and your app now shows "Referred to Squadron Commander"?


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an individual in my Sq had to submit the correct one, it went through the process again and AFPC said they are holding them in a batch until 10 Mar.

[matmacwc]

Include a hire position into an ANG or USAFR position and I thinks things would go smoother.

[BamaC-21]

Include a hire position into an ANG or USAFR position and I thinks things would go smoother.

You'd think so, but I think that's going to be an obstacle for some people. As I understand it, under the FY14 PC program, you've got to have the gaining unit information completed before you submit. Regular PC doesn't require it until well after you submit. I'm at a TFI, staying with the host guard unit, and still running into hiccups from the recruiting folks on attaching the position number to the PC form before it's signed off by the losing Wg/CC (not at my base). It's a new wrinkle that will hopefully iron itself out next week, but I'd hate to be dealing with a unit that doesn't really know me in another state. If that line of thinking holds, it gives power to the losing Wg/CC, who has no say in the matter under the regular PC program. Hopefully, it won't.

I'm not smart, and certainly not smart on ANG stuff, but it seems like we're basing the FY PC program on the assumption that ANG units will just hand out position numbers on their manning documents to these active duty guys without knowing if they'll actually be approved to separate or not. All it's going to take is for a few units to "hire" guys who don't get PC approved and miss out on the off-the-street hires & other PC'ing folks that they have to turn down because they're out of "positions" before the PC program starts to stink as bad as VSP.

This post is heavy on opinion, so call me out if you think it's off base. I'm talking out of my a**, but I think the gaining unit information was added as a requirement to the FY program because A1/AFPC is requesting delegation of the ADSC waiver authority from SAF, who normally processes PC apps. This way they know the folks they're letting out are walking into a job somewhere. I think that as an unintended consequence, they've created a catch 22.

Edited March 8, 2014 by BamaC-21

[Tnkr]

Everyone who has had to submit the new IRR statement of understanding did it then reset the routing and your app now shows "Referred to Squadron Commander"?

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I need some help. I've been tracking the VSP pretty closely and trying to keep up with this thread, but I'm not tracking the 'new IRR' doc. Where and when did that come from? Is this something new since the strategic delay? Or are we talking about the change in form from the Dec PSDM to the late Jan/early Feb PSDM? I suddenly find myself in an unusual attitude and need some help. Thx in advance.

[MooseAg03]

I need some help. I've been tracking the VSP pretty closely and trying to keep up with this thread, but I'm not tracking the 'new IRR' doc. Where and when did that come from? Is this something new since the strategic delay? Or are we talking about the change in form from the Dec PSDM to the late Jan/early Feb PSDM? I suddenly find myself in an unusual attitude and need some help. Thx in advance.

The only movement I had on my VSP app was an e-mail that I received last week stating that the statement of understanding they directed me to submit was from a previous round of force shaping. It had a new SOU attached that I had to sign and submit. The new one included a provision to recoup VSP if I ever receive disability payments. After I attached it, it reset my application and now I'm back to "Referred to Squadron Commander"

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[Tnkr]

Ok, thx. I got nervous for a minute. Mine is still at BPO as of this afternoon. I was checking every 15 minutes, but now that we're strategically delayed, I've throttled back to every hour.

It's ok that I use 'throttle back' as a tanker guy, right? We have those so I thought I might. /sarc

[tunes]

You'd think so, but I think that's going to be an obstacle for some people. As I understand it, under the FY14 PC program, you've got to have the gaining unit information completed before you submit. Regular PC doesn't require it until well after you submit. I'm at a TFI, staying with the host guard unit, and still running into hiccups from the recruiting folks on attaching the position number to the PC form before it's signed off by the losing Wg/CC (not at my base). It's a new wrinkle that will hopefully iron itself out next week, but I'd hate to be dealing with a unit that doesn't really know me in another state. If that line of thinking holds, it gives power to the losing Wg/CC, who has no say in the matter under the regular PC program. Hopefully, it won't.

I'm not smart, and certainly not smart on ANG stuff, but it seems like we're basing the FY PC program on the assumption that ANG units will just hand out position numbers on their manning documents to these active duty guys without knowing if they'll actually be approved to separate or not. All it's going to take is for a few units to "hire" guys who don't get PC approved and miss out on the off-the-street hires & other PC'ing folks that they have to turn down because they're out of "positions" before the PC program starts to stink as bad as VSP.

This post is heavy on opinion, so call me out if you think it's off base. I'm talking out of my a**, but I think the gaining unit information was added as a requirement to the FY program because A1/AFPC is requesting delegation of the ADSC waiver authority from SAF, who normally processes PC apps. This way they know the folks they're letting out are walking into a job somewhere. I think that as an unintended consequence, they've created a catch 22.

All good points...I think it really depends on the unit. I interviewed with a unit and told them exactly what was going on with this debacle. They ended up giving me a position number and said they hoped I could work some PC/VSP/RIF magic.

Edited March 8, 2014 by tunes

[AnimalMother]

If he seriously had no idea of the current FY14 Force Management shenanigans going on and someone beneath him has been withholding information from him, he should fire those people immediately.

Damn skippy. Hopefully he'll start taking a closer look at how his subordinate commanders are executing his orders and intent. That's the problem with these types of things, it all depends on what your definition of "is" is, right?

[chizz]

well even if they give us a position number and for some reason our PC paperwork gets denied, they can pull the psn nmbr and give it to the guy off the street right? he is just sitting in alternate status until then, i dont think they will really be missing out and ive never seen a reserve unit really hurting for bodies unless they are running a full up ftu. As for the IR statement, you can go into your vsp package and look at the one you submitted to ensure it was the right one, it is the one off of 14-08 and is two pages and specifically mentions the vsp in it.

To calm the waters a bit, rumor has is the CSAF is meeting with the Sec on Mon and releasing something hopefully by tues. Maybe party streamers, maybe more tears, but hopefully more resolution and firm answer instead of the run around. I for one dont care one way or the other, I still want to continue my service in the reserves. But I do care that out of the 85 pages on this topic there arent two people that were told the same information. Not one right answer, all wrong ones. If there was a "Stan/Eval" doing a supp eval on this event they would have a hay day. It would be enough to constitute a safety down day across the entire AF. This has consumed so much energy of so many people and we havent even gotten out of the starting gates yet, we are still warming up for the race. Think of the lost man hours across the AF on all of this, hours we could have spent working on our RIF packages...oh wait those arent due yet....working on our PRFs....oh wait those got pushed back. Speaking of which, if you arent a school select, why are we wasting the AFs time putting together a 2 below PRFs or even 1 below? more man hours just down the tube!

[Mountain]

Chizz-

That's not the kind of team spirit we're looking for in Big Blue. Consider yourself released.

PSYCH! 365, beeyotch!

Edited March 8, 2014 by Mountain

[Champ Kind]

To calm the waters a bit, rumor has is the CSAF is meeting with the Sec on Mon and releasing something hopefully by tues. Maybe party streamers, maybe more tears, but hopefully more resolution and firm answer instead of the run around.

I'd be happy with some firings and a "vector" at this point.

[chizz]

Chizz-

That's not the kind of team spirit we're looking for in Big Blue. Consider yourself released.

PSYCH! 365, beeyotch!

I worry about that everyday!!

I'd be happy with some firings and a "vector" at this point.

NAF, run with it

[chim richalds]

Yes, unfortunately it doesn't mean anything, they did this to me last time and was still a denial, maybe if they were specific about what form, or provide you one on the website, this wouldn't happen.

[shweaty]

With the brief pause for Air Staff to digest the amount of VSP applicants, do you think the numbers will increase or decrease in the 11M category, or maybe they've decided to not release any pilots at all? With the 16,400 FY15 proposed active duty cut maybe they'll increase the numbers. Or is the Proposed FY15 cut part of the original plan that was unveiled my CSAF in December? However a majority of that will come from the enlisted force.

Edited March 8, 2014 by C17Jockey

[Azimuth]

Gen Welsh said he expects it to be closer to 10,000 cut.

[shweaty]

Is that's total for FY14 and 15

[Fozzy Bear]

FWIW, I resubmitted after that email regarding the new IRR, SOU, whatever you want to call it. My status changed back to "referred to sq cc" just like the other guys. Not too worried about it, except that I assume the rules will change again, and my unit cc is eventually just going to start putting this bullshit paperwork on a back burner, which would be bad. He and the wing king already recommended against, but obviously I still need him to hit the 'forward to wing cc' button.

[Azimuth]

Both. He said that if sequestration is to continue its full term, it's going to until 2023. The USAF wanted to "plan ahead" and figured that they had to lose 25,000 people as a worst case scenario. If they cut that amount of people within the next 1-2 years the USAF would be fine until 2023. If they did not lose that amount of people fast, he would have to drawn down flying units ever years for 6+ months, like he did this year in ACC. Right now 33% of combat coded units are CMR, he said this needs to increase, so he needs to find funding else where to pay to fly (through personnel cuts).

He said he only gets funding for 100% of manning in each career field, every person over that 100% he has to pay out of O&M funds to keep them, that's why if you're in a overage career field, expect cuts until it gets to 100% manning. He decided to delay the E-8 promotion release two weeks because he (and Chief Cody) didn't want to release the list during the time that the force management isn't stable. He also didn't want to promote someone into an overage in their career field and now all of sudden pop up on the retention board in May.

He also said that he/Air Staff knew they would never cut 25,000 people, that's worst case. Plus they also knew that they wouldn't have to result to going for involuntary measures to get people out (hence why the RIF board was pushed back till Oct) because they would get enough volunteers. He said after he released the measures, and some "fine tuning" done by AFPC/A1 that number is going to drop and he expect it to be around 10,000.

He didn't know about the delay in VSP processing/put on hold and got very pissed (his Aide de Camp said he's never seen him that mad) and made a very terse phone call to the A1 after the brief asking for explanation and apparently the A1 didn't know about it either. He apologized during the SNCO call and said it will get fixed when he gets back to D.C. What he's upset about is how information is going out from Air Staff and by the time it filters through mid-leadership (Wing/Group/Sq Commanders) we may, or may not, have received that information. Good example are the amount of folks who get more information from this message forum than from their leadership.

What he did ask is for folks to have patience. He said that the USAF is doing some old (from the last draw downs) force management programs, to some that haven't ever been used before. There are going to be confusion, questions, push back, etc. He said that he made sure that the USAF provides the maximum amount of options, by law, for folks to make their decisions if they wanted to get out (VSP, TERA, Palace Chase, Palace Front) etc.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Azimuth

[panchbarnes]

He also said that him/Air Staff knew they would never cut 25,000 people, that's worst case. Plus they also knew that they wouldn't have to result to going for involuntary measures to get people out (hence why the RIF board was pushed back till Oct) because they would get enough volunteers. He said after he released the measures, and some "fine tuning" done by AFPC/A1 that number is going to drop and he expect it to be around 10,000.

If they knew they can easily get 10K then why not just offer VSP and stop there? Instead of getting everyone in the AF all spun up and manhours wasted in creating RRFs.

Maybe there is a good explanation for this but I'm not tracking.

Edited to add: Oh and the "I didn't know this was happening" excuse is tired. How about "The buck stops here" instead?

Edited March 8, 2014 by PanchBarnes

[Dubs]

Edited to add: Oh and the "I didn't know this was happening" excuse is tired. How about "The buck stops here" instead?

Deny, deny, deny, counter-accuse, deny. The USAF way.