what does "We expect to receive final approval authorities early next week for a select few categories, like rated and health professions, at which point we will be actively processing all voluntary applications" mean. He goes out of his way to say process instead of approve.

I would guess it means approve or disapprove. Could there be a third option? Involuntary extension, I guess. Sts.

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This ought to be interesting...

The eligible populations for those boards will remain the same with the exception of a small group of about 500 Airmen who will no longer be eligible for the current voluntary or involuntary programs. Those individuals will be personally notified of their eligibility status by the Air Force Personnel Center.

My money is on the 11X

Edited to add that it is jacked up to put these 500 airmen thru this emotional roller coaster and most likely have them go thru the process again next year. The exact situation Gen Welsh said he wanted to avoid

Edited March 15, 201411 yr by PanchBarnes

what does "We expect to receive final approval authorities early next week for a select few categories, like rated and health professions, at which point we will be actively processing all voluntary applications" mean. He goes out of his way to say process instead of approve.

Possibly expanded waiver authority such as the rated bonus.

Thanks

Cox also confirmed previously-announced force management boards would proceed as currently scheduled. The eligible populations for those boards will remain the same with the exception of a small group of about 500 Airmen who will no longer be eligible for the current voluntary or involuntary programs. Those individuals will be personally notified of their eligibility status by the Air Force Personnel Center.

There were significantly more than 500 11Xs listed on the RIF matrix. 2005-2008 had 2,558 eligible alone and these would all have some UPT ADSC remaining. Maybe they decided to add another pilot population to the invulnerable pile - 11S? Or maybe AFPC figured out how shitty they are at their job and decided to keep all 38Ps this go round so they don't have a repeat in 2015.

So I've heard rumors already of people applying for VSP and getting 365s.

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Correlation does not equal causation. I wouldn't put it past afpc to do something like that, but they've repeatedly shown they aren't competent enough to figure it out.

Keep in mind, 365s do not get handed down by the CC. They come from AFPC based on number of short tours, short tour return date and a probably a couple other factors I can't remember right now.

But I'm skeptical that vsp application has anything to do with a 365 other than the dudes applying we're likely motivated knowing they were short on the list to get tagged.

Spot on, Warrior. Didn't want to mention anything in the hopes that the rumors would dissuade a few applicants...

I think every enlisted TERA applicant in my MDG did so to duck scheduled deployments-or else it was just a bunch of coincidences.

So I've heard rumors already of people applying for VSP and getting 365s.

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Every time I hear things like some command or center is being conniving or doing something with an ulterior motive, I remember that if they can't get the simple stuff right, then there is no way they could coordinate something that clever. Now, if lower levels of leadership, such as one's chain of command, did something like this, then I would be suspicious.

That group of 500 airmen is probably enlisted that are about to put on E8. Delaying that board release was part of the strategic pause. I wouldn't doubt that some of these promotions effect the force structure-especially in the small afscs.

How would one go about getting General Cox's e-mail address? I am at my wits end with AFPC. I have still yet to hear any sort of answer from them concerning why some people with the exact same AFSC and remaining ADSC remaining have been denied for VSP and some are still at the BPO? I have called the TFSC numerous times and opened tickets with no answer.

If they are supposed to start processing these applications this week and people still have theirs in the system, but guys like me have been denied what happens if they start approving them and we miss out?

The Air Force doesn't pay that well. The best officers I know are all leaving the Air Force. Who do our senior leaders imagine will be the senior leaders of the future? Perhaps those left behind will rise to the challenge, but more likely they'll continue their mediocrity with greater consequences. Who will they be able to recruit? When a kid comes to you wanting to be a pilot, does anyone recommend joining the Air Force? When I was thinking about it, I asked retired guys from the '70s and '80s and they said it was the best time of their lives. I've had some good experiences to go with the bad, but I sure as hell wouldn't recommend it. There's little chance I'll be alerted at my deployed location to go fly, so I'll be checking for PSDMs to support resubmitting my application because the Air Force doesn't pay that well.

How would one go about getting General Cox's e-mail address?

the same as you get anyone else's email addy: the GAL.

How would one go about getting General Cox's e-mail address? I am at my wits end with AFPC. I have still yet to hear any sort of answer from them concerning why some people with the exact same AFSC and remaining ADSC remaining have been denied for VSP and some are still at the BPO? I have called the TFSC numerous times and opened tickets with no answer.

If they are supposed to start processing these applications this week and people still have theirs in the system, but guys like me have been denied what happens if they start approving them and we miss out?

Your Congressman can probably get it.

And a Congressional inquiry would probably have more impact than an email from you.

Your Congressman can probably get it.

And a Congressional inquiry would probably have more impact than an email from you.

You'd think so, wouldn't you? Unfortunately it's just not true. I just finished a round of Congressional inquiry (8 Congressional offices, to be exact) for a different issue, and I can tell you that unless the Congressman/woman takes personal interest in your case it'll just be a bureaucratic exercise that wastes your time. You'll deal with a VERY low-tier person in the Congressional office who has no power or motivation. That person has to deal with an entire AF office dedicated to answering Congressional inquiries, and believe me when I tell you they work very hard to avoid real answers. It's like working a claim with an insurance company that doesn't want to pay out, only more shady. It doesn't matter if you're right, even with the AFIs on your side.

Now if ALL of us did this, maybe there'd be some impact, but that isn't going to happen either. It's like saying we're all going to rebel against the SOS in correspondence as an informal prereq for residence by refusing to take ANY SOS tests in correspondence. If everyone does that, would they simply cancel the In-res classes? Nope. They'd fill them anyway. But there will always be the careerist douchecopter who sees the situation as an opportunity to set himself apart from the crowd and just do one test, and the situation will revert within a few weeks.

In short, an email from you would be ALL OVER the AF in a matter of hours, and get lots of attention. Unfortunately, it'll also get YOU lots of attention--and not the kind of attention you want. It's as close to falling on one's sword as we can get these days. I doubt any of us consider that worth it.

Words... careerist douchecopter... more words.

Nice. Douchenozzle was getting a bit tired.

Beerman, let the dude vent. This is an anonymous place where we can release our frustrations without worrying about getting court-mashalled. Nobody needs to take any of this stuff personally. Many of us want to leave, some want to stay. You're not a bad dude either way. I agree that those of us trying to leave shouldn't trash the joint on the way out. I will disagree with letters, it pays well, it just sucks that it pays the same no matter how hard you work. I remember when I made AC, my wife asked how much of a pay raise that was. I laughed, then reflected on what a communist organization it is that I work for.

Man I really don't know where you stand on this issue Letters V, S, & P. Everyone has different experiences, but I strongly disagree with you. The Air Force pays me very well to do something that I cannot do anywhere else. The best officers that I know are not leaving the Air Force. Some have gone to the Guard and the Reserve, but are still contributing there, and many are still on AD. Here we go again with this sad footnote of failure crap; "they'll continue their mediocrity with greater consequences," "who will they be able to recruit" Dude, thanks for your service, now move along quietly and go find the more money that you're looking for in your next career.

We've covered this about 10 times, that Fiver guy summed it up pretty well but it bears repeating. We're not ######ed. If you come to work and do nothing but read BO.net and check your VSP status every 15 minutes then you're just making more work for the rest of us. If you did that at Delta or United they would fire you.

I could make much more money at any of several other jobs and my guess is that you could too. The only way the Air Force has been able to recruit top talent is because it offered unique intangible compensation. When they treat their people poorly, they erase those intangibles. Reducing the retirement post hoc comes to mind; as does involuntarily separating people while denying volunteers. When they do these things, they devalue being an Airman.

I wasn't saying I'm not going to work hard because I'm a petulant child. I was saying I don't have any work to do. I fly just enough to stay current (not proficient) and my ground job work is proportionate to the number of hours my squadron flies, which isn't very many. They should reduce the number of airplanes and pilots if there isn't enough money to fly them. And they definitely shouldn't deploy pilots without missions to fly.

I think the old heads will agree, the AF is a different place to work when they are critically short of aviators. Now they are fat, and don't care to much on who they let go. They also aren't trying real hard to retain anyone. It shows. It will also change, but how long will it take and how much will it suck before the change happens? During the 'strategic delay' they figured out they are going to have to cut more people next year. Guess we're not there yet.

I think every enlisted TERA applicant in my MDG did so to duck scheduled deployments-or else it was just a bunch of coincidences.

Or the fact we're putting up with the same (or even more) amount of bullshit that you guys are for less pay. People are tired and burnt out.

You're right. I'd even argue that if the Air Force could maintain that intangible compensation then there wouldn't be a need for a bonus or a VSP program.

Shackaroo. Had this exact conversation over too many beers last night after a Q&A session with our Wg King who clearly did not get this concept.

I'm going to throw some speculation theory out here since we are in the middle of the "strategic delay." Not that A1/AFPC will employ sound logic when they finally make their decision, but would it make sense, if they are going to waive some ADSCs, to waive those with the lowest ADSCs in a specific AFSC vice a percentage spread across yr groups in that AFSC? For example, the matrices show '05-'08 yr group 11Ms as having specific overages. Assuming the '05s and 06's have less time remaining on their ADSC than the '07 and 08's, wouldn't make sense to approve, say 80% of the '05 applicants, 60% of the 06's, 20% of the 07's, etc, rather than those overage numbers per year group? In addition that might alleviate the congressionally mandated Major slot overages we are seeing that cause promotion boards to be pushed back. Obviously you have to consider that you don't want to empty a whole year group at once, but if you are just considering 11Ms (other '05 AFSCs intact), it would seem to make sense that you could approve only those with 3 years left on their ADSC if any, instead of split among the year groups resulting in 4, 5 and 6 years being waived. (He said hoping AFPC is trolling for good advice they can turn into policy for their program).

Edited March 16, 201411 yr by lossofclocklossofdata

EDIT: Discussion about APFC killing more morale and ending Rip-Its moved to own thread per FUSEPLUG's suggestion.

Edited March 16, 201411 yr by Fuzz

^^^ Suggest this gets its own thread.

Because taking away our caffeine will help prevent things like landing at the wrong airport after a ball-buster 20 hour day. Here they go again deciding what's best for my health because obviously I am too immature to decide for myself.

UFB