FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

[North48]

Gents-

I have serious doubts HAF and AFPC will be able to play catch-up, next week for the TERA deadline of 1 Apr. Once again, it's not that amendments are being made, behind the scenes, it's still the blatant lack of comms, from AFPC in particular. I'm convinced now AFPC is a blind bureaucracy, operating in a vacuum, separate from the rest of Big Blue. I've called TFSC at least 10 times, trying to pull a reasonable level of data about my TERA package and I've gotten blatant apathy and flat out incompetent lack of information from these folks. I'm blown away that an organization, like AFPC, thinks its OK to leave it's service members, in the dark. Communication, even at basic level, revealing reasonable expectations would cover a multitude of sins.

HAF/A1 & AFPC-If you're listening, you can't leave your service members, in the dark, with only the Air Force Times and Forums to make sense of the rest of their lives, it breeds contempt. I don't expect perfection, I expect communication and I'm tired of waiting in the dark. With every moment that passes, I can't wait to take my skills elsewhere, where I won't be treated like I'm sitting at the kiddie table.

[Altus Barbarosa]

Why would you call TFSC 10 times? I'm not sure what you think they would know about your case specifically. It's pretty clear that the people answering the phones are call-center type folks who operate as a first line of defense before you get forwarded to the actual office of responsibility. Was this seriously not obvious to you?

Jesus people. The answering machine that picks up at TFSC tells you upfront to sit tight until 1 Apr. Yeah, this is a pretty shitty way for them to do things but people need to stop acting like they've been wronged by the guys in the trenches at TFSC and AFPC. Those guys are probably doing the best they can with the guidance and authority they have been provided. Stop busting their balls and shitting on them every time you want specifics on your case when you've been told over, and over and over since the beginning that these guys don't have any specifics. AFPC as an organization? Yeah, it's a clusterfk and it has royally f'd this thing up for everyboday. But the people on the phone are just doing their jobs and probably getting paid $14/hr to do it. Personally I think alot of the blame should go to the 5k people who tried to apply and sneak one by when they weren't eligible. It's true a small number of folks got screwed over by the poor guidance at the beginning but not 5k people. The bulk of the ineligibles were just throwing up a prayer hoping they could sneak out, clogging up the system for those of us who are ACTUALLY eligible per the guidance. Probably a bunch of SFS and MX guys to be honest. I'll bet there were less than 200-300 pilots who applied, though we may never know.

I'm anxiously awaiting my own TERA approval too but cut the grunts some slack here. Take 10000 pieces of paper and lay them out on the floor in front of you and tell me how quickly you could get through them to make critical life decisions for each of them if you had 50 people working with you, let alone the 15-20 guys they ACTUALLY have working in the R&S branch at AFPC.

[LookieRookie]

Why would you call TFSC 10 times? I'm not sure what you think they would know about your case specifically. It's pretty clear that the people answering the phones are call-center type folks who operate as a first line of defense before you get forwarded to the actual office of responsibility. Was this seriously not obvious to you?

Jesus people. The answering machine that picks up at TFSC tells you upfront to sit tight until 1 Apr. Yeah, this is a pretty shitty way for them to do things but people need to stop acting like they've been wronged by the guys in the trenches at TFSC and AFPC. Those guys are probably doing the best they can with the guidance and authority they have been provided. Stop busting their balls and shitting on them every time you want specifics on your case when you've been told over, and over and over since the beginning that these guys don't have any specifics. AFPC as an organization? Yeah, it's a clusterfk and it has royally f'd this thing up for everyboday. But the people on the phone are just doing their jobs and probably getting paid $14/hr to do it. Personally I think alot of the blame should go to the 5k people who tried to apply and sneak one by when they weren't eligible. It's true a small number of folks got screwed over by the poor guidance at the beginning but not 5k people. The bulk of the ineligibles were just throwing up a prayer hoping they could sneak out, clogging up the system for those of us who are ACTUALLY eligible per the guidance. Probably a bunch of SFS and MX guys to be honest. I'll bet there were less than 200-300 pilots who applied, though we may never know.

I'm anxiously awaiting my own TERA approval too but cut the grunts some slack here. Take 10000 pieces of paper and lay them out on the floor in front of you and tell me how quickly you could get through them to make critical life decisions for each of them if you had 50 people working with you, let alone the 15-20 guys they ACTUALLY have working in the R&S branch at AFPC.

I'd be wary of believing that 5k people applied that were ineligible and were trying to "sneak one by." It's possible that 5k people became ineligible after AFPC changed it's requirements.

[Bender]

Take 10000 pieces of paper and lay them out on the floor in front of you and tell me how quickly you could get through them to make critical life decisions for each of them if you had 50 people working with you, let alone the 15-20 guys they ACTUALLY have working in the R&S branch at AFPC.

Now it makes more sense. I suppose I was just assuming that they were going to use a computer to help them out.

It's funny to me when people get mad at other people for getting mad...makes me giggle.

Bendy

[Altus Barbarosa]

Computer is even slower id think. Can only see one app at a time. Unless you just want it automated and let Windows sort out people's lives.

[Bender]

What? A computer can see every application, to include every single data field on each one (not to mention every data field in any database we choose--assuming one had planned for it) all at the same time. Full automation isn't necessary, nor desired unless you have the perfect answer, which we clearly do not. Partial automation, something like "flag" the applications that correlate to no ADSCs and split them out, would be simple and immensely expedite the process.

That is...if you wanted that.

Bendy

[Guest]

words

I agress with most of your post except for this:

Personally I think alot of the blame should go to the 5k people who tried to apply and sneak one by when they weren't eligible. It's true a small number of folks got screwed over by the poor guidance at the beginning but not 5k people. The bulk of the ineligibles were just throwing up a prayer hoping they could sneak out, clogging up the system for those of us who are ACTUALLY eligible per the guidance. Probably a bunch of SFS and MX guys to be honest.

Take a look at how many SFS personnel are projected to be cut. They need many, MANY applicants.

One of the larger AFSC's that got screwed in the 23 Jan update was the 4N's. I personally know several Airmen that got denied after the matrices changed. I think the number of "ineligible" applicants was more likely caused by AFPC's failings than supposedly underhanded Airmen.

[North48]

*Altus Barbosa

Feel free to settle with mediocrity but I won't. You bet I've called TFSC, many times, trying to find answers to specific questions about my records in order to build reasonable expectations-yes I expected them to do their job and yes I completely ignore the robot message that tells me not to call, every time. I've even made an effort to share what little information I 've gathered (gasp) with others on this forum. I'm sorry you feel like the poor souls that answer the phones are being mistreated by me. My subordinates expect better than mediocrity from me and I expect the same out of others that are processing the next step in my life. You are correct the TFSC doesn't know much and therein lies the problem-they should. I was patient a month ago, I'm no longer patient. Do you really think if the masses are silent, the process will get any better?

Here's hoping for better news next week.

[Duck]

In my experience the more times you call, you talk to different people who may or may not know just one more piece of the puzzle. Obviously not even the Commander knows everything but you can start to get an idea.

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Why would you call TFSC 10 times? I'm not sure what you think they would know about your case specifically. It's pretty clear that the people answering the phones are call-center type folks who operate as a first line of defense before you get forwarded to the actual office of responsibility. Was this seriously not obvious to you?

I disagree. I've called multiple times. I'm not mean to the call center person, but I do ask tough questions. I call and am on speakerphone hold for 20 minutes while surfing the net. I hope those phones ring constantly. Waiting until 1 Apr for something that's going to affect the rest of your life is stupid. If you want to go that route because someone wrote that in a PSDM fine, but that's not the right answer for me. If nobody complains, then leadership thinks everything is going great. I wish there was more I could do, but I doubt I'll receive a customer satisfaction survey.

[Duck]

So I say keep at it.

[panchbarnes]

I'm blown away that an organization, like AFPC the Air Force, thinks its OK to leave it's service members, in the dark. Communication, even at basic level, revealing reasonable expectations would cover a multitude of sins.

HAF/A1 & AFPC Air Force-If you're listening, you can't leave your service members, in the dark, with only the Air Force Times and Forums to make sense of the rest of their lives, it breeds contempt. I don't expect perfection, I expect communication and I'm tired of waiting in the dark. With every moment that passes, I can't wait to take my skills elsewhere, where I won't be treated like I'm sitting at the kiddie table.

FIFY

Unfortunately, my experience makes me believe it's an Air Force-wide cultural issue.

[aerobat95]

So under the updated PSDM there is yet another IRR agreement/SOU and this says in section e where it talks about disability it has in yellow "(SUSPENDED) Per SecAF memorandum, dated 17 Oct 2007, the requirement to recoup VSP from disability compensation benefits awarded by the Department of Veterans Affairs is waived". What exatly does this mean? If I were to get VSP and have disability I would not have to wait 10 years till I could start collecting? Also does this require me to upload yet another IRR agreement/SOU?

[HoHum]

So under the updated PSDM there is yet another IRR agreement/SOU and this says in section e where it talks about disability it has in yellow "(SUSPENDED) Per SecAF memorandum, dated 17 Oct 2007, the requirement to recoup VSP from disability compensation benefits awarded by the Department of Veterans Affairs is waived". What exatly does this mean? If I were to get VSP and have disability I would not have to wait 10 years till I could start collecting? Also does this require me to upload yet another IRR agreement/SOU?

No. It's just saying if you get disability, it will not be used to recoup VSP. Retirement - yes, Disability - no.

//Break//

Every time I log into myPers and see that there's even less info than before...

[Catbox]

Just logged in after getting back from leave. My CDB has a 1405 date of 29 Jun 1998. Does this roughly jive with what others TERA dudes are seeing?

[Mountain]

Just logged in after getting back from leave. My CDB has a 1405 date of 29 Jun 1998. Does this roughly jive with what others TERA dudes are seeing?

Yup. Mine showed up last week. 1 July 1998.

[NotADude]

I don't expect perfection, I expect communication and I'm tired of waiting in the dark.

Sadly, I no longer expect even base competence by anyone working in personnel (or finance, for that matter.) Instead, I'm pleasantly surprised when it appears the person I'm talking with is even familiar with an applicable AFI.

[jstarsshag]

Yea, I've got a 1405 date 6 Apr 1997... I was wondering if this was a sign... I know they use the 1405 to calculate retirement pay, my hope is this is a step in the right direction. If they can populate that date then why is it so hard to keep us informed. My family is about done living in limbo....

(TERA 11R 2001 yr group)

[shweaty]

Anyone with a subscription to the AF Times read the FY 15 force management article? Wondering what it said. I'm hoping we don't get pushed until then for VSP.

[Catbox]

Yea, I've got a 1405 date 6 Apr 1997... I was wondering if this was a sign... I know they use the 1405 to calculate retirement pay, my hope is this is a step in the right direction. If they can populate that date then why is it so hard to keep us informed. My family is about done living in limbo....

(TERA 11R 2001 yr group)

After 15.5 years in the Air Force, my reservoirs of hope and optimism are completely drained but I don't think AFPC would be calculating retirement pay on a whim. Huge knock on wood!

[shweaty]

I paid the 99cents for the one day subscription to AF times.

Per the AF times review of congressional budget documents for Force Management.

"Air force expects to pay $81.6 million to 560 officers taking TERA, or 15 yr retirements. Another 1,137 officers will receive $108.8 million in voluntary separation payments this year. The Air Force has not budgeted for officer TERA or VSP in 2015, suggesting the service does not expect to offer these programs again next year to officers."

Hopefully this means we will get an answer before the next fiscal year.

[C-21.Pilot]

The Air Force has not budgeted for officer TERA or VSP in 2015, suggesting the service does not expect to offer these programs again next year to officers."

That's a poor suggestion. I'm sure it means that they want to clarify/finish FY14. I'll speculate that the programs will continue to be open for the next 3-4 years, but the AF will manage their numbers more efficiently than what has gone on here.

[HoHum]

The Air Force has not budgeted for officer TERA or VSP in 2015, suggesting the service does not expect to offer these programs again next year to officers.

SecAF said there would be boards next year, but nobody would go to two involuntary boards unless they had disciplinary problems. So.....no VSP for '04 Majors next year? AF will still have to pay separation pay.

[Skitzo]

I'll be UPT adsc complete at that point +/- a few months, imagine a fair amount of pilots would be too in my YG.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[panchbarnes]

I paid the 99cents for the one day subscription to AF times.

Per the AF times review of congressional budget documents for Force Management.

"Air force expects to pay $81.6 million to 560 officers taking TERA, or 15 yr retirements. Another 1,137 officers will receive $108.8 million in voluntary separation payments this year. The Air Force has not budgeted for officer TERA or VSP in 2015, suggesting the service does not expect to offer these programs again next year to officers."

Hopefully this means we will get an answer before the next fiscal year.

I just want to point out that at least one airman has resorted to paying a commercial media outlet to get clarity on the FY14 Force Management Program.

This makes me really sad.

Edited March 24, 2014 by PanchBarnes