FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

[MSCguy]

Have to have 3 years commissioned service as of 31 Dec 2014 to meet a force shaping board. Younger than that can volunteer to get out but cannot be force shaped out...yet.

[Spartacus]

So, is there a consensus as to who is eligible for the RIF? If you look at MyPers it leads you to believe that all officers are eligible for VSP and the RIF, but then the doc added yesterday tells us which AFSCs aren't eligible for voluntary programs. Will there be a similar doc that comes out for the RIF? Or are all AFSCs eligible for the RIF? Or, are you only eligible for the RIF if you are eligible for voluntary programs? (This was my understanding.)

[Fifty-six & Two]

Just found this gem in the TERA PSDM:

Senior Developmental Education/Intermediate Developmental Education (SDE/IDE) or equivalents (see Note 4)

4. ADSCs for Developmental Education, AFIT Advanced Academic Degree, AF-sponsored civilian education, and Advanced Pilot Training are not being waived.

EXCEPTION: A waiver for 1 year of the ADSC for SDE/IDE (or equivalents) for officers eligible IAW this PSDM.

So...they are now lumping UPT in with SDE/IDE or equivalents and will waive the ADSC up to a year? Am I reading that right?

[olevelo]

So...they are now lumping UPT in with SDE/IDE or equivalents and will waive the ADSC up to a year? Am I reading that right?

No, Advanced Flying Training is post-UPT and FTU. Think instructor school, WIC, TPS, etc. Typically a 3 year ADSC.

[Fifty-six & Two]

No, Advanced Flying Training is post-UPT and FTU. Think instructor school, WIC, TPS, etc. Typically a 3 year ADSC.

Awesome. Thanks!

[Dupe]

I've got 3 (count 'em, three!) AFSCs and a core ID now. I haven't a clue if I'm eligible.....

[tunes]

So, is there a consensus as to who is eligible for the RIF? If you look at MyPers it leads you to believe that all officers are eligible for VSP and the RIF, but then the doc added yesterday tells us which AFSCs aren't eligible for voluntary programs. Will there be a similar doc that comes out for the RIF? Or are all AFSCs eligible for the RIF? Or, are you only eligible for the RIF if you are eligible for voluntary programs? (This was my understanding.)

my understanding is the 11X on the chart that are blue are meeting the RIF board and eligible for VSP

[BamaC-21]

I'm facing a 365 that's why I'm hoping I can VSP.

From the mypers help section

Thank you for contacting the myPers - Total Force Service Center via the E-mail Us option. Officer VSP is one of the projected programs under the FY14 Force Management however, no guidance has been released as of yet. It is currently projected to start in Jan 2014 but that is subject to change. Once specific details are available, AFPC will provide official personnel messages and public news releases that will be posted on www.afpc.af.mil and www.af.mil. At that time, Airmen will be able to visit myPers at https://mypers.af.mil to read the personnel messages and guidance on eligibility and applications.

Good to know. I'm also on the hook for a 365, and the VSP window details weren't clear.

[theat6bisasham]

I just have to say it : MERRY CHRISTMAS FROM THE USAF!

Hiding behind the weekend with bad news releases like always….how do these "leaders" sleep at night? Chang, Liquid? Any comments? Come on down and joint he conversation about your awesome USAF institution….i'd seriously like to hear your thoughts and comments right now…don't be shy!

[MC5Wes]

Anyone know if the finding of the Air Force Restructure Commission report are baked into the cake on these reduction numbers?

Or are report recommendations going to be additional cuts?

https://afcommission.whs.mil/

[Cornholio5]

Has an AFSC-eligible list been released yet for VSP/RIF? I am away from a military network for a few weeks and would at least like to know what Big Blue has planned for all of us 11M-types. Could someone post the11X eligibles on here? I am sure more are in the same boat I am with network access.

[Dupe]

Has an AFSC-eligible list been released yet for VSP/RIF? I am away from a military network for a few weeks and would at least like to know what Big Blue has planned for all of us 11M-types. Could someone post the11X eligibles on here? I am sure more are in the same boat I am with network access.

30 second version: 11/12F/H/U are not VSP/RIF eligible. All other 11/12X AFSCs will be.

My question: will the RIF board accept letters. I see the "Please RIF me" letter as being this decade's version of the "Don't promote me" letters of the 90s.

[GKinnear]

30 second version: 11/12F/H/U are not VSP/RIF eligible. All other 11/12X AFSCs will be.

My question: will the RIF board accept letters. I see the "Please RIF me" letter as being this decade's version of the "Don't promote me" letters of the 90s.

Are you sure about the 11/12F/H/U not being RIF eligible? The matrix stated it was for voluntary programs (ie VSP). I didn't interpret that to mean RIF eligibility as well. I still think that group is RIF eligible. If I'm wrong, someone please post the source doc stating to use that matrix.

This is what happens when you get everyone spun up just prior to the holiday's. How about next time you decide who's affected first before dropping this bomb on us? We would've bitched anyway, but come on man!

[Right Seat Driver]

Are you sure about the 11/12F/H/U not being RIF eligible? The matrix stated it was for voluntary programs (ie VSP). I didn't interpret that to mean RIF eligibility as well. I still think that group is RIF eligible. If I'm wrong, someone please post the source doc stating to use that matrix.

This is what happens when you get everyone spun up just prior to the holiday's. How about next time you decide who's affected first before dropping this bomb on us? We would've bitched anyway, but come on man!

Anyone have that number for the truck driving school?

[Chida]

Last time they offered VSP they decided after-the-fact that certain AFSC's were not allowed VSP. Then the RIF was held and they cut whatever AFSC's they felt like. They justified it as a "quality-cut". The "VSP prior to RIF" is mandatory per statute, but that doesn't mean the USAF needs to honor the intent of the law.

[Dupe]

Are you sure about the 11/12F/H/U not being RIF eligible? The matrix stated it was for voluntary programs (ie VSP). I didn't interpret that to mean RIF eligibility as well. I still think that group is RIF eligible. If I'm wrong, someone please post the source doc stating to use that matrix.

This is what happens when you get everyone spun up just prior to the holiday's. How about next time you decide who's affected first before dropping this bomb on us? We would've bitched anyway, but come on man!

You're right. I suck for the mis-info. The 11/12/F/H/U was just those VSP inelligible.

[Spartacus]

I don't think anyone knows for sure right now. However, if offering VSP is legally mandated then how can you legally RIF people who were not offered the chance to apply for VSP?

[Chida]

Because the law says to offer VSP to a certain group of officers (year group) before conducting a RIF. You might say the AF is being more honest than the law requires. They could just exclude the stated AFSCs without telling anyone upfront. After all, the VSP is not first come, first served as they stated. They hold all the power to approve whom they wish. If that approval is denied to a certain AFSC, well...that's their prerogative.

[Spartacus]

Because the law says to offer VSP to a certain group of officers (year group) before conducting a RIF. You might say the AF is being more honest than the law requires. They could just exclude the stated AFSCs without telling anyone upfront. After all, the VSP is not first come, first served as they stated. They hold all the power to approve whom they wish. If that approval is denied to a certain AFSC, well...that's their prerogative.

I didn't know that that was how it worked. Interesting. Well, if those excluded from VSP are eligible for the RIF it will be interesting to how many of them get the boot. Doesn't really seem wise or in the best interest of the AF to boot people who are in an AFSC that is critically undermanned. Oh, wait we're talking about the Air Force. Disregard.

[shweaty]

The latest chart doesn't say anything about VSP, I don't know why we keep going over this. Yes it will happen but they haven't released the details on it yet. That should probably come out next Friday I'm sure.

[Champ Kind]

Also, it seems that several year groups are "safe" from the RIF based on the less than 1 year TIG or on a promotion list stipulations.

New Capts are out of luck since they have less than six years in, but '03 just finished pinning on O-4, '04 is on deck with the first line numbers starting in Jan (slowly), not to mention the guys pinning on/on the list for O-5 (99-2000 year groups?)

Edit: According to PSDM 13-130, it looks like the '03 year group is vulnerable to the RIF based on the less than one year TIG prior to 31 Jan 2015 stipulation.

Edited December 24, 2013 by Champ Kind

[HeloDude]

This is totally different than the last VSP/RIF from 2-3 years ago. That time, in the very beginning, Big Blue only said it would affect certain year groups and did not say anything specifically in the beginning with regards to specific AFSC's and year groups. Also, all the info that has currently been released says that anyone 'elgible' for a VSP/RIF (or Force Shaping/early retirement) will be officially notified in January. So if you're not notified that you could be eligible for one of the programs and you then are later RIF'd, then I think this would be bigger than the AF later coming back and saying 'oops'. It would be like holding a promotion board without you knowing you were competing in that board.

[tunes]

The latest chart doesn't say anything about VSP, I don't know why we keep going over this. Yes it will happen but they haven't released the details on it yet. That should probably come out next Friday I'm sure.

Because the chart says voluntary program eligibility.....since the VSP is voluntary people are assuming that means VSP eligible.

[General Chang]

I just have to say it : MERRY CHRISTMAS FROM THE USAF!

Hiding behind the weekend with bad news releases like always.how do these "leaders" sleep at night? Chang, Liquid? Any comments? Come on down and joint he conversation about your awesome USAF institution.i'd seriously like to hear your thoughts and comments right nowdon't be shy!

I tell you guys MONTHS ago that these programs were coming, and now you are calling Liquid and me out? Really?

BL: We must get smaller. Our senior leaders have determined that 10% fat legitimately remains to be trimmed. These programs are the first steps in that multi-year fat-trimming process. We serve at the pleasure of our senior leaders, and when our usefulness expires, so do our careers. Just the facts, nothing personal.

Edited December 23, 2013 by General Chang

[panchbarnes]

Gc,

since you are A1, please confirm whether or not people in the red block is still vulnerable to the rif board.

Thanks